Putting extroverts on a pedestal

[Sugarcoat]

Hello, first time ever posting!

I’m an eighteen year old female and for my entire life I’ve been struggling with low self-esteem. I was very narcissistic as a young child, later becoming more of a people pleaser, probably due to growing up with neurotic parents.  Its improved significantly due to spiritual work (meditating since 16 years of age) and other practices. I’ve gotten rid of the vast majority of my people pleasing tendencies, nowadays I have zero trouble saying no and setting boundaries. But one aspect of the people pleasing “mindset” that’s left is the tendency to put people on a pedestal. In particular highly social extroverts. 
 

I’m currently in high school, and I’m basically surrounded by a bunch of high energy extroverts (my school is known to be rich socially so we’re not talking about the average person here). Meanwhile I’m this low energy introvert, still struggling with self esteem. 
 

so I have this unhealthy tendency to put my peers on a pedestal. Their extroverted energy gives off the impression that they:

• are confident (sign of maturity and high conscioussness)

• don’t take themselves seriously (once again sign of the same things)

• are well developed ego-wise 

It fascinates me because let’s say I’m surrounded by a group of people who all have much higher IQ than me, I wouldn’t feel insecure because I have self-distance to my IQ so I don’t take it personally and put them on a pedestal for it, because it’s not like they are superior to me because they are logically smarter.

But I’m struggling to apply the same mindset to these extroverted socially competent people at my school.

Shyness tends to be associated with children, meanwhile more confident and outgoing behavior is associated with confidence which is what an adult is “supposed to be”. So I’ve subconsciously judged myself for not being that way, while at the same time overestimating how developed these people at my school are.

It seems like extroverted behavior can when expressed in a friendly way, give of the impression of “having ones shit together”, causing a person to seem more stable and grounded than they are.

I know on an intellectual level that these people also have insecurities, and that just because they are highly socially competent doesn’t mean they are highly developed and mature. But it’s hard to feel this on an emotional level. 
 

Also since I’m non-Swedish from the suburbs going to a school with a lot of rich inner city Swedes I can’t help but feel a bit different.

Basically I'm trying to find confidence in my low energy introverted “nature”, but it’s a struggle. 
 

My question is, does anyone relate? 
How come some people can be so extroverted and seem so confident?

im just venting at this point lol but just felt like sharing this. No matter what I’m working hard on building self esteem as I strongly genuinely feel the desire to actualize the confident version of me that I know is somewhere underneath the layers of fear and social conditioning. 
thank you for reading 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Sugarcoat

[bloomer]

@Sugarcoat

33 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

My question is, does anyone relate? 

I relate, I'm also a low energy introvert, struggling with self esteem. 

It's important to realize that everyone is human and has faults and extroversion isn't that unique or special. Just means a person gets energy from around people, socializes easier and has less of a filter. 

I relate to viewing that from the outside looking in as something alien but don't let that effect your own self esteem.

I'm new to the forum as well and I made a first post similar to yours. Leo himself gave some advice and I found the info on there to be helpful and it might help you as well.

36 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

How come some people can be so extroverted and seem so confident?

I think because, when you look at it from an introverts perspective, they do things that we can't because they have no filter. 

37 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

im just venting at this point lol but just felt like sharing this

No it was a good vent.

Never let someone else social extroversion effect your self esteem. You'll be fine and I'm sure you can develop all those same traits that you admire in others.

[Carl-Richard]

Welcome to the forum! Here we put introverts on a pedestal 

[Leo Gura]

The rule of thumb is: the more confident and social they are, the dumber they are.

Don't confuse any such nonsense with consciousness, development, health, or wisdom.

[Gesundheit2]

Introverts are often self-conscious, which is not the case for most extroverts. Being self-conscious is like being your own enemy. Extroverts don't have that enemy, so they tend to be more free. But most extroverts have very low consciousness. They don't know what they're doing or why they're doing it.

The truth is that introverts are often one level higher than extroverts, consciousness wise, simply because self-consciousness is a feature that extroverts lack and have no access to, nor do they care about it or want to develop that capacity, so they're stuck in their comfort zone.

If an introvert somehow manages to get over self-consciousness, it'll be like when the pawn advances to the end of the chess board. The line between introvert and extrovert will blur. They will become a Queen and have the best of both worlds. The same thing will happen if an extrovert develops their consciousness. But that's rare in introverts, and a lot rarer in extroverts.

[Sugarcoat]

@Leo Gura Thank you for your straightforwardness. I’ll try my best to think like that

[Sugarcoat]

@Gesundheit2 That’s where I’m slowly heading. I’m working on myself so I can come to a point where I’m comfortable enough to express myself authentically. It’s going but it’s going slow, which frustrates me.
Anyways beautiful analogy. 

[Sugarcoat]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Welcome to the forum! Here we put introverts on a pedestal 

Hahahhahah I wish I could have that mentality irl

[bloomer]

@Gesundheit2

6 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

it'll be like when the pawn advances to the end of the chess board.

6 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

They will become a Queen and have the best of both worlds.

Great analogy, I'm curious, how does a introvert reach the end of the chessboard and get rid of over self-consciousness?

 

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Welcome to the forum! Here we put introverts on a pedestal 

Introverts rule

[Sugarcoat]

 

@bloomer Nice to know somebody relates. As you say, extroversion isn´t special, and they also have flaws, but its hard to realize that sometimes. I think as long as one has a flawed perception of oneself, one will have a flawed perception of others. So the solution here is to work on ourselves, and it will translate to how we relate to others, I think.

When it comes to small talk, thanks for the advice you linked, but I personally think I´ve come to a point where listening to advice on how to socialize does more harm than good to me. Because it makes it seem like my problem is a lack of social skills, but I´ve realized that it´s rather a problem of fear. When I am relaxed I can small talk easily. 

So I suggest you to ask yourself the same. Is the problem that you lack social skills and need to learn how to small talk better, or is it that you can small talk when relaxed, but fear gets in the way sometimes? Perhaps both, one can always improve social skills of course. But as of now, is your biggest obstacle fear/low self esteem instead of lack of social skills? If it is the case, you might have to reconsider how to go about your problem 

Thank you for your kind words.

[mandyjw]

You don't have an inner or an outer, so you couldn't possibly be one or the other. 

Don't ask anyone else, the whole notion is how you stack up and rate compared with others. People who think that they are extroverts will accuse you of being introverted and people who think they are introverted will accuse you of being extroverted.  All of this has nothing to do with you, but what they think of themselves. 

If you want to be more free and have more fun around people, do that. If you want to do what you want without caring what others think do that. In the end they are the exact same thing. 

[bloomer]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Introverts rule

Fuckin A man 

I'm going to take solace in that fact, that the more confident and social a person is the dumber they are. At least I'm smarter than them, that will help me cope with the all consuming loneliness as I cry myself to sleep tonight. 

[bloomer]

@Sugarcoat

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Nice to know somebody relates.

I expect quite a few people relate here. Since introverts are put on a pedestal and all. 

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

and they also have flaws, but its hard to realize that sometimes.

I relate to that more than you know.

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

So the solution here is to work on ourselves, and it will translate to how we relate to others, I think.

Sounds about right to me.

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

When it comes to small talk, thanks for the advice you linked, but I personally think I´ve come to a point where listening to advice on how to socialize does more harm than good to me. Because it makes it seem like my problem is a lack of social skills, but I´ve realized that it´s rather a problem of fear. When I am relaxed I can small talk easily. 

Well, you're smart enough to identify the problem. Now you need to learn how to not be so afraid when talking with people. I know, easier said than done. What do you think makes you afraid?

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

So I suggest you to ask yourself the same. Is the problem that you lack social skills and need to learn how to small talk better, or is it that you can small talk when relaxed, but fear gets in the way sometimes? Perhaps both

I think both. But you are right, it's an issue with anxiety and the fear that I'll say the wrong thing. But splitting the two, social skills and anxiety, is very useful and you made me realize I've been conflating the two. Thanks for that.

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Thank you for your kind words.

Don't mention it. All the best. 

?

@mandyjw

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

Don't ask anyone else, the whole notion is how you stack up and rate compared with others. People who think that they are extroverts will accuse you of being introverted and people who think they are introverted will accuse you of being extroverted.  All of this has nothing to do with you, but what they think of themselves. 

I've never thought about it that way. I've always just taken for granted the fact that introversion and extroversion are these objective states, rather than just this comparison game. We should stop comparing ourselves to others constantly, and that will probably work wonders for our anxieties. You make some awesome posts mandy. Thanks. 

[Batman]

I suggest to contemplate and get to why you feel fear or anxiety around extroverts. Do you feel you have something to hide from them? That they will sense in you something you don't want to be seen?

The thing with introversion, is that you are a lot of time locked in your thought world, disconnected from the sensory experience, and this separates you from others. Extroverts can easily sense introvert's energy, and this can cause them unease or discomfort around them. Think about it, you are being open and share with others your world or experience, but some others are keeping quiet, and don't expose their experience to others. This is signaling that introvert keeps thing to them self, that they do not wish to share with others. This can be alarming for some people, and extroverts may very well push you to invert your self outside.

So practicing self-inversion can help. Consider it is just about being honest and communicating to others what you feel or think. 

Of course, some extroverts will deploy in their communications manipulation and dishonesty. But those aren't good ways to relate to an other.

[Kross]

I've been an introvert my entire life as well and have struggled to socialize. But now that I'm twenty, I feel a somewhat extreme urge to just "open" myself up by being much more playful, creative and experimental in extrovert people stuff. I feel like this is a domain which involves it's own separate form of intelligence (like artistic intelligence, athletic intelligence, etc.) and could be crucial for survival purposes. But no chance in hell I'd EVER trade things I've learned from Leo or spirituality in general in the last few years for it. I just like to observe such naturally socially talented people and try to embody some of their stuff through IRL trial and error and visualizations. I also think that eventually down the line I can be much more socially competent than many of these naturals, because they generally don't have a concept of lifelong learning and development and take stuff for granted, hit a glass ceiling and stop growing further unless somehow accidentally forced to. Unlike their case, we have a chance to hone this skill consciously and go DEEP with it. They are far from "superior" imo. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Kross

[How to be wise]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The rule of thumb is: the more confident and social they are, the dumber they are.

Does that include sadhguru?

[Carl-Richard]

23 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Does that include sadhguru?

Apples and sages.

[Leo Gura]

21 hours ago, bloomer said:

@Leo Gura

Fuckin A man 

I'm going to take solace in that fact, that the more confident and social a person is the dumber they are. At least I'm smarter than them, that will help me cope with the all consuming loneliness as I cry myself to sleep tonight.

Be careful drinking in that copium.

Actually, plenty of extroverts are smart. But I will still be smarter

[DManKee]

I wonder...are we introverts on this forum just trying to feel superior? ? Maybe its true but I'm also sure there are many extremely smart extroverts out there with skills introverts lack. We are all gifted with skills in this life. I feel It's up to each of us to use our gifts and work on our weaknesses.