Being enlightened/awakening are still just experiences and games...

[RMQualtrough]

Any thoughts about enlightenment or oneness are thoughts, taking place within the appearance of duality.

Being "enlightened" is still just part of your identity and an element of the collective object of appearances that make up all of you that isn't the sheer nothing.

Being "awake" the appearances around you do not vanish. You just interpret them differently, as nothing rather than something. But they are still appearing. So you are merely re-interpreting the appearance of duality within that appearance of duality. 

The sheer nothing by itself does not care about anything, so being extra empathic to others is not actually in any way appeasing the sheer nothing you share. It by itself never changes, even if you are literally the Buddha, all things "Buddha" are appearances. All his thoughts and feelings...

You haven't actually left the game. Nobody ever leaves, like Hotel California. Look at how all these people are apparently awake, yet others persist. If any person truly "awoke" ALL people would collapse, every perspective would end across the board, because we are LITERALLY one thing ultimately. It wouldn't be possible to have one person "awake" and another not, because there ARE no others ultimately speaking. For this to even be possible proves that all elements of that "awakening" are just more objects in the appearance of duality.

It's no different than watching a movie or playing a video game. It's still just experience. The absolute totality is never experienced as total. Duality is the most critical element of nonduality, as without it appearing, illusion or not, there would be no existence at all.

Edited November 19, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[BipolarGrowth]

The whole “subjective” experience awakens. What makes you think the collapse doesn’t lead you right back to where you were at the time of the collapse? 
 

You can experience the collapse for yourself, but no one can experience the destination for that which has collapsed because it is not a destination. And such is the nature of the natureless. Such is Nibbana.

[Nahm]

 

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

Duality is the most critical element of nonduality, as without it appearing, illusion or not, there would be no existence at all.

‘Wether illusion or not’… what’s “it”? 

[WelcometoReality]

@RMQualtrough ?

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

Being "enlightened" is still just part of your identity and an element of the collective object of appearances that make up all of you that isn't the sheer nothing.

The "enlightened" self is also let go of. The enlightened identity is not yet enlightenment.

 

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

Any thoughts about enlightenment or oneness are thoughts, taking place within the appearance of duality.

Being "enlightened" is still just part of your identity and an element of the collective object of appearances that make up all of you that isn't the sheer nothing.

Being "awake" the appearances around you do not vanish. You just interpret them differently, as nothing rather than something. But they are still appearing. So you are merely re-interpreting the appearance of duality within that appearance of duality. 

The sheer nothing by itself does not care about anything, so being extra empathic to others is not actually in any way appeasing the sheer nothing you share. It by itself never changes, even if you are literally the Buddha, all things "Buddha" are appearances. All his thoughts and feelings...

You haven't actually left the game. Nobody ever leaves, like Hotel California. Look at how all these people are apparently awake, yet others persist. If any person truly "awoke" ALL people would collapse, every perspective would end across the board, because we are LITERALLY one thing ultimately. It wouldn't be possible to have one person "awake" and another not, because there ARE no others ultimately speaking. For this to even be possible proves that all elements of that "awakening" are just more objects in the appearance of duality.

It's no different than watching a movie or playing a video game. It's still just experience. The absolute totality is never experienced as total. Duality is the most critical element of nonduality, as without it appearing, illusion or not, there would be no existence at all.

Ya pretty much.  However, it isn't "just experience", THIS is it.........

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

You haven't actually left the game. Nobody ever leaves, like Hotel California.

Yes nobody leaves because it's recognized there wasn't a real player or a real game. 

[Inliytened1]

@RMQualtrough I would take care to not get so caught up with all of the word games about enlightenment that go on in this forum...if you believe that awakening is more word games within the dream and stop there then you will never experience God (for lack of better words)  you will never actually awaken.    Nothing wrong with that,  but also nothing wrong with awakening- in fact it is quite "out of this world"

 

[Tyler Durden]

25 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Yes nobody leaves because it's recognized there wasn't a real player or a real game. 

What about physical death? Isn't that similar to waking up from a dream? After that a new dream can begin and the process of discovering the Truth can start all over again.

[VeganAwake]

Non-duality doesn't eliminate perspectives, point of views, and interpretations of apparent others.

What's recognized is that none of those experiences equate to a real separate individual within the body.... the individual is a byproduct of those experiences.... an illusory identity that thinks it owns those experiences. 

Like a sticky self-centered web that clings to all experiences and so-called knowledge and then moves through life with that dream story interpretation.

"Awakening is the disentangling from the socially conditioned Matrix of Mind known as ME"

- Samadhi (Maya illusion of the self)

❤ 

 

 

[VeganAwake]

4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

What about physical death? Isn't that similar to waking up from a dream? After that a new dream can begin and the process of discovering the Truth can start all over again.

THIS is already death because there already isn't a real living individual within the body moving through time and space.

And yes that's a big letdown for the sense of self that is so desperately trying to figure out a way to escape death.

No one dies because no one was born.

The body will die just like a deer out in the forest. You doesn't die because it was never real in the first place. ?

The biggest problem for you is death.... the cosmic joke is there already isn't anyone alive.

❤ 

 

[RMQualtrough]

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@RMQualtrough I would take care to not get so caught up with all of the word games about enlightenment that go on in this forum...if you believe that awakening is more word games within the dream and stop there then you will never experience God (for lack of better words)  you will never actually awaken.    Nothing wrong with that,  but also nothing wrong with awakening- in fact it is quite "out of this world"

It's not a word game. The experience is an experience. Awakening is an experience. Exactly like any other...

Do you know what happens when you awaken? You simultaneously don't and never do (I say you because many dislike the term "others").

You're walking around apparently enlightened while at the same time you're shooting up a convenience store and not believing in God at all. Because ALL of these things including understanding of nonduality, are appearances of form, in the appearance of duality because without formless appearing as form there's cessation.

BipolarGrowth is right, but I would say his cessation non-experiences are still not literally collapsing duality, only relatively, because look here we are. Evidently what happens is it is relatively collapsed and relative collapse = the person ceases to exist. But here we see the appearances of things are continuing. So they haven't actually achieved anything.

The ride never ends. Waking up is relative. It seems clear what is going on... An enlightened form is still a form that's there, it literally means NOTHING whether you are walking around understanding oneness. You are just a form realizing oneness and formlessness. It's still appearing.

Appearance of duality is eternal. Even thoughts like "that's lonely" or "that's boring" are form and thus the formless as itself alone simply does not care except via experience...

Edited November 19, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

It's not a word game. The experience is an experience. Awakening is an experience. Exactly like any other...

 

I would say it's a state of consciousness...an expanded state of consciousness beyond or prior to human finite consciousness..in which it is realized that all other is held within the mind of God which is none other than "your: mind for lack of a better word than you..because it is not a human you.  It is everything....infinite consciousness..t is Love.

[RMQualtrough]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I would say it's a state of consciousness...an expanded state of consciousness beyond or prior to human finite consciousness..in which it is realized that all other is held within the mind of God which is none other than "your: mind for lack of a better word than you..because it is not a human you.  It is everything....infinite consciousness..t is Love.

Do you see that it doesn't actually achieve anything at all on a cosmic scale?

Did I experience nothingness? I knew nothingness for sure. I knew myself to be nothingness through an experience I was having. I could not know myself to be nothingness if I was under general anaesthesia. Maybe I would somewhere else in the world simultaneously but you know what I mean.

I am still right now on death row and doing all sorts of evil shit, I'm still Sam Harris arguing for materialism etc. So whatever viewpoint was gained or state of consciousness tapped into, it is STILL a relative one. Entering the state of consciousness which is literally nondual, meaning nothing even APPEARS to take form at all, causes cessation, and thus can't be experienced.

Any sort of awakening directly impacts your relative life only. As long as experience is happening, and it eternally is and will, you are experiencing relativity in some way.

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Do you see that it doesn't actually achieve anything at all on a cosmic scale?

Did I experience nothingness? I knew nothingness for sure. I can't be experienced.

By cosmic scale do you mean within the dream? Of course not - it's not experienced by you as your small self it is just pure consciousness.  It's God waking up from this dream - so how would God waking up from a dream achieve anything within the dream when it just woke up from the dream?  Nothing inside the dream had any real meaning other than what your finite self attributed to it..It is stepping outside the reality of form and realizing it for what it is.   It's pure selflessness you might say - so why would anything in the dream need to be changed when everything is pure perfection already!  That would be selfish.

[peanutspathtotruth]

36 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

As long as experience is happening, and it eternally is and will

How do you know? Maybe yes, maybe not. What if the trillions of years of existence are just a blink of God's eye, and then it decides to just be itself as nothing at all - until after eternity, it feels like experiencing itself as something distinct again. Experience is not fundamental so I don't see why it can't stop entirely. Even consciousness is not fundamental, when you understand it as self-knowing. There is unknowing pure reality without anything. This is the only non-reducible eternal infinity. And I tend to intuit that all archetypal ways of making itself concrete can collapse - if God chooses so.

[RMQualtrough]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

By cosmic scale do you mean within the dream? Of course not - it's not experienced by you as your small self it is just pure consciousness.  It's God waking up from this dream - so how would God waking up from a dream achieve anything within the dream when it just woke up from the dream?  Nothing inside the dream had any real meaning other than what your finite self attributed to it..It is stepping outside the reality of form and realizing it for what it is.   It's pure selflessness you might say - so why would anything in the dream need to be changed when everything is pure perfection already!  That would be selfish.

Well I don't believe anything would be changed point blank because I don't believe things are the way they are due to selflessness. I think it's the actual necessity of an infinity. It can't help but be infinite. So infinite in fact that it can't ever comprehend itself in totality because there is simply no end in any direction. And it's not even a sentient thing, it contains sentience, so the wording I just used is a bit humanizing.

I imagine it's like trying to comprehend what "infinite clear" would LOOK like. We can't comprehend it without adding an artificial backdrop like black or white. Infinity can't ever be comprehended fully in its totality, for that exact same reason. It becomes nothingness and non-experience as in cessation.

No God has ever woken from this dream. None ever will. What is happening is from a relative stance, a person realizes God (AKA nothingness AKA infinity AKA not a deity or person despite containing sentience in it). It's a relative experience still... When you are dead you are fully enlightened to total infinity, and yet there you are mourning at your own funeral. The illusion continues. Forever.

God waking up to itself as a totality is not possible, because it would collapse all something to nothing, and removal of something means removal of any limit which means nothingness is infinite (nothing exists to limit it) and there is infinite somethingness still as a result. You can't split the two.

You can't end the illusion because removing something causes the EXACT parameters that necessitate its very own existence!

[RMQualtrough]

9 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

How do you know? Maybe yes, maybe not. What if the trillions of years of existence are just a blink of God's eye, and then it decides to just be itself as nothing at all - until after eternity, it feels like experiencing itself as something distinct again. Experience is not fundamental so I don't see why it can't stop entirely. Even consciousness is not fundamental, when you understand it as self-knowing. There is unknowing pure reality without anything. This is the only non-reducible eternal infinity. And I tend to intuit that all archetypal ways of making itself concrete can collapse - if God chooses so.

Because the removal of somethingness causes the exact conditions that make its own existence necessary and impossible to avoid. God doesn't exist, it's just literally infinity. It is sentient only because it contains sentience, it chooses only because it contains choice. The totality as a whole has no choice, there's no chooser to make any choice. Infinity simply cannot help but be infinite.

When people say infinite love that is because they are identifying the nothingness as God, and not the somethingness in which hatred (rejection of X or Y) exists. It is really both though. Infinite love as well as infinite rejection. Because it's both nothingness and all somethingness. Including someone's hatred of cancer and pain and suffering. It contains selfishness along with the nothingness that is totally selfless... Selflessness, acceptance, and peace being DEFAULT AKA the lack of attribute. Peace is merely a lack of anxiety, acceptance a lack of rejection. Etc.

Edited November 19, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[Tyler Durden]

5 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

When you are dead you are fully enlightened to total infinity, and yet there you are mourning at your own funeral. The illusion continues. Forever.

Can you please explain this? Won't the entire universe disappear with my death?

[peanutspathtotruth]

On 19.11.2021 at 5:51 PM, RMQualtrough said:

Because the removal of somethingness causes the exact conditions that make its own existence necessary and impossible to avoid. God doesn't exist, it's just literally infinity. It is sentient only because it contains sentience, it chooses only because it contains choice. The totality as a whole has no choice, there's no chooser to make any choice. Infinity simply cannot help but be infinite.

When people say infinite love that is because they are identifying the nothingness as God, and not the somethingness in which hatred (rejection of X or Y) exists. It is really both though. Infinite love as well as infinite rejection. Because it's both nothingness and all somethingness. Including someone's hatred of cancer and pain and suffering. It contains selfishness along with the nothingness that is totally selfless... Selflessness, acceptance, and peace being DEFAULT AKA the lack of attribute. Peace is merely a lack of anxiety, acceptance a lack of rejection. Etc.

I agree with everything you said. Regarding my question, do I understand you correctly that you're saying infinity has in it existence/consciousness/form and thus is always and will always be that, because it is contained in it? If that's what you mean, I agree, but I sense another perspective: doesn't infinity also include the lack of experiencing itself in any way? With time and without time, there is this big gaping (w)hole of just unexpressed infinity. Like the idea of a singularity containing all possibilities, but those not even having germinated. Honestly I don't know. It just intuitively feels like infinity would both experience itself forever and also not experience anything at all - and the "alternating" of that would of course only happen in time, which is already a specific experiencing of infinity.

Tricky...

Edited November 21, 2021 by peanutspathtotruth

[Blackhawk]

Blah blah.. mental gymnastics and beliefs..

Who the heck knows.

Just screw everything.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Blackhawk