Prove you are experiencing

[Nahm]

@WokeBloke

That proof would also be, experience.  

What can’t be experience(d)? 

[WokeBloke]

6 hours ago, Tim R said:

@WokeBloke There isn't anybody in the entire universe "having" any experiences or "being conscious". In other words, there are no subjects (or objects). Everything and everybody is made from the same "stuff", which is consciousness. There aren't any subjects "who are conscious" of any objects.

It's consciousness. Get that.

Saying "subjects are conscious" would be like saying "water is wet". But water isn't wet. Water is wetness itself!! It is it! You understand? 

Just like you don't need water to be wet, you don't need anybody there to be conscious. 

You see? The table in front of you doesn't have to be conscious. Neither do you. You are not conscious, you are consciousness. And so is the table. 

You will only understand this once you collapse the illusory distinction between the subject and the object, that is to say between "the one who is conscious" and "that which you are conscious of". 

Now stop speculating and go meditate or whatever?❤

Consciousness is just a name you have given yourself. 

As for there is not anybody in the universe having an experience. I am this body having an experience. All those bodies you see in your world are bodies having experiences. Look at a picture of your 10 year old self. That is a body having an experience not some conceptual consciousness idea.

 

[WokeBloke]

7 hours ago, Ry4n said:

What is the you and what is the desk? 

 

Who's creation? What parts? Where? What is the substance of all of this? Where does it all come from? What remains under all change? 

I am identifying as my body. The desk is not a part of my body.

Presumably I created my body but also unknown.

A finger is a part of the body. There are many parts to the creation.

No idea what the substance is but it certainly is not a word such as consciousness or nothing. 

[Tim R]

What is the point of this thread?? You want "proof that you are experiencing" and now you're saying 

2 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

I am this body having an experience. All those bodies you see in your world are bodies having experiences

If you are so sure that you and other people are a body that is having an experience, then what do you even want to hear ?

There is no proof for other people experiencing anything and the notion of subjects having an experience is footed on wrong metaphysical assumptions and beliefs, now if you still want to insists that this is not so, go ahead.

But realize that this whole discussion is going nowhere. 

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

No idea what the substance is but it certainly is not a word such as consciousness or nothing. 

Do you know what consciousness is ?

Quote

Look at a picture of your 10 year old self. That is a body having an experience not some conceptual consciousness idea.

Isn't it just a picture ?

How do you arrive to the conclusion that there is a body, and that this body has an experience ?

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Shin said:

Do you know what consciousness is ?

Isn't it just a picture ?

How do you arrive to the conclusion that there is a body, and that this body has an experience ?

Consciousness refers to myself but I have no idea what I truly am. Certainly not a word.

 

Yes its a picture but it shows you what you once were. You were once that body wouldn't you agree?

I conclude there is a body because I look at my body and see what I call a body.

I conclude the body has an experience because I am seeing the body with the body which is an experience.

 

 

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Consciousness refers to myself but I have no idea what I truly am. Certainly not a word.

 

Yes its a picture but it shows you what you once were. You were once that body wouldn't you agree?

I conclude there is a body because I look at my body and see what I call a body.

I conclude the body has an experience because I am seeing the body with the body which is an experience.

 

 

 

What if you needed to know what consciousness is to determine if what you said is true ?

If that is the case, then a lot of things you think you know may be totally different than what you first thought of them.

And that would only be consciousness, maybe there is other things to know to truly understand how life works.

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Shin said:

 

What if you needed to know what consciousness is to determine if what you said is true ?

If that is the case, then a lot of things you think you know may be totally different than what you first thought of them.

And that would only be consciousness, maybe there is other things to know to truly understand how life works.

Then what is consciousness my friend?

[Shin]

1 minute ago, WokeBloke said:

Then what is consciousness my friend?

You want a concept to fill your head, that's not what we're talking about.
You can directly know, without thinking about it.

There is tons of videos on Leo's channel if you want more concepts, or you could do what Leo tells you and self inquire, take psychedelics, kriya yoga, meditate, until you discover what consciousness is, in your direct experience.

Nobody can tell you what it is, and if they do, it's just words and sounds that may or may not make some sense intellectually.
Having a concept making some sense intellectually is only good for armchair philosophy if you don't do some actual spiritual work besides that.

[WokeBloke]

6 minutes ago, Shin said:

You want a concept to fill your head, that's not what we're talking about.
You can directly know, without thinking about it.

There is tons of videos on Leo's channel if you want more concepts, or you could do what Leo tells you and self inquire, take psychedelics, kriya yoga, meditate, until you discover what consciousness is, in your direct experience.

Nobody can tell you what it is, and if they do, it's just words and sounds that may or may not make some sense intellectually.
Having a concept making some sense intellectually is only good for armchair philosophy if you don't do some actual spiritual work besides that.

I don't want concepts actually because I know I'm not a concept. Would you agree that you use to be your 10 year old body?

[Shin]

Just now, WokeBloke said:

I don't want concepts actually because I know I'm not a concept.

If you don't want concepts, stop asking questions and self inquire

Quote

Would you agree that you use to be your 10 year old body?

Yes and no lol.

Relatively speaking yes, in the story of Shin, there was a past in which It imagines itself being younger.

In truth, memories are created on the fly at all times to give a sense of continuity and realness, I never was a 10 year old cause there is no past, I am what I am right now.

[WokeBloke]

8 minutes ago, Shin said:

If you don't want concepts, stop asking questions and self inquire

Yes and no lol.

Relatively speaking yes, in the story of Shin, there was a past in which It imagines itself being younger.

In truth, memories are created on the fly at all times to give a sense of continuity and realness, I never was a 10 year old cause there is no past, I am what I am right now.

This is my self inquiry. I am inquiring into my self (you).

 

Can't be yes and no. You actually were that body you just don't want to accept it because all these people have tried to convince you that you don't have a past. Your memories are a result of having once been that body. Just like you are the body you are now you soon will no longer be this body but you were once this body and that will forever be written in your karma. At this very moment you are generating more past just by being present.

[RMQualtrough]

7 hours ago, Tim R said:

@RMQualtrough Don't separate "nothing" from "something". 

*seeming subject and object divide. 

I very much prefer interpretations which acknowledge the separation as much as the oneness. For me appearing to appear = appearing. An illusion = a real illusion.

My most prominent understanding, I felt, came from the split instead of becoming the visuals etc. A little clown man in my mind pointed at me in the foreground, and that did it... The "don't look at me here, look at you back there", then I found I was literal complete nothingness.

[RMQualtrough]

6 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

You actually were that body you just don't want to accept it because all these people have tried to convince you that you don't have a past. Your memories are a result of having once been that body. Just like you are the body you are now you soon will no longer be this body but you were once this body and that will forever be written in your karma. At this very moment you are generating more past just by being present.

You can't actually prove this to yourself at all, like the title question it's unproveable.

I wonder if this is why time seems to pass faster as we get older. Maybe we realize more and more that we've never actually left this moment, and the moments passed through you.

[Aaron p]

What if you took the same path of logic as a court would...if 100 people see me interacting with a football, and being skillful with it ...and all 100 people testified of this consistently...would this not be proof that I'm experiencing the football, since I couldn't interact with it consistently nevermind skillfully unless I was experiencing it?