Prove you are experiencing

[WokeBloke]

Can you prove or try to convince me that you are seeing/experiencing my post and that I am not living in a world with scripted machines. Thank you

[Nos7algiK]

No you

[michaelcycle00]

1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

Can you prove or try to convince me that you are seeing/experiencing my post and that I am not living in a world with scripted machines. Thank you

Go mess with a big dude, he'll take every inch of Solipsism out of you with a punch. There's literally no better way to ground yourself when you're having existential doubts. Like Mike Tyson said: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

You're too comfortable, and that's why you're having these thoughts. Do you think a homeless guy is wondering whether people around him are "real" or not? Or someone escaping from the mafia? The answer is a resounding no. Welcome. 

 

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

Can you prove or try to convince me that you are seeing/experiencing my post and that I am not living in a world with scripted machines. Thank you

No, if you want to believe you live in a world where everyone else is a scripted machine then go ahead, I'm not going to stop you. ?

<end-script#000452F1Q4>

Can you prove to yourself that you aren't a scripted machine? In a sense that's what the mind is and that is what most people are believing.

[WokeBloke]

48 minutes ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Go mess with a big dude, he'll take every inch of Solipsism out of you with a punch. There's literally no better way to ground yourself when you're having existential doubts. Like Mike Tyson said: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

You're too comfortable, and that's why you're having these thoughts. Do you think a homeless guy is wondering whether people around him are "real" or not? Or someone escaping from the mafia? The answer is a resounding no. Welcome. 

 

You make a good point. Some people's lives are so bad that it makes me think they aren't real.

Edited November 18, 2021 by WokeBloke

[WokeBloke]

3 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

No, if you want to believe you live in a world where everyone else is a scripted machine then go ahead, I'm not going to stop you. ?

<end-script#000452F1Q4>

Can you prove to yourself that you aren't a scripted machine? In a sense that's what the mind is and that is what most people are believing.

If I'm creating these words then I can't be scripted because that would imply someone else creating me.

[Nos7algiK]

Just now, WokeBloke said:

If I'm creating these words then I can't be scripted because that would imply someone else creating me.

Are you creating or are you reacting to the variables being imputed into you?

[WokeBloke]

Just now, Nos7algiK said:

Are you creating or are you reacting to the variables being imputed into you?

Both. What you say influences me no doubt but then I create a response.

[Nos7algiK]

And something couldn't have created you to respond that way? If you were somehow able to experience the exact same variables you would respond in the exact same way. Much like an algorithm. 

But, to be more direct, we are as real as you wish to believe we are. Let me rephrase that, we are as real to you as reality wishes to manifest in a perceptional bubble that believes it's a self that has the ability to determine if others are real or not.

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Nos7algiK said:

And something couldn't have created you to respond that way? If you were somehow able to experience the exact same variables you would respond in the exact same way. Much like an algorithm. 

But, to be more direct, we are as real as you wish to believe we are. Let me rephrase that, we are as real to you as reality wishes to manifest in a perceptional bubble that believes it's a self that has the ability to determine if others are real or not.

My response is created. It seems the response comes from the body in which case nothing besides the body created the response. If something created me to respond in this way then that implies a creator separate from the body which is forcing me to create this. 

I agree that I will only every create this exact response in this specific scenario. So you could say I am like a computer that processes comments like yours and spits out responses. Of course the fundamental difference between me and a computer is that I am experiencing and computers aren't experiencing.

You are either 100% experiencing or 0% experiencing. I sit on one end of a computer wondering if there is someone on the other end seeing, reading and making responses for me. Even if its ultimately just me on the other end as opposed to an other than that is extremely profound because it implies communication between my past and my future. 

[Nos7algiK]

4 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

If something created me to respond in this way then that implies a creator separate from the body which is forcing me to create this. 

 

 

2 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

 that I am not living in a world with scripted machines. 

Your original comment already dabbles in the idea of separation. Which this is a tricky idea. If someone truly was to program you it wouldn't matter how conscious you become because you could never see past that programming. Which could imply that you only see yourself and then others as AI or even see all as One. There would be no way to self-reference if the AI made it that way.

 

12 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

I agree that I will only every create this exact response in this specific scenario. So you could say I am like a computer that processes comments like yours and spits out responses.

Yes, but really it is all just You. Like having a conversation in a cave with your own echo, Is the echo you(the ego) or is the echo something "new" due to the transmutation the sound would have from traveling through the air and bouncing off the walls?
 

7 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Of course the fundamental difference between me and a computer is that I am experiencing and computers aren't experiencing.

 

Your computers are experiencing, because you are experiencing. But, really there is no computer or you to have the experience rather the whole is the experience. The experience is that of an " I " that perceives itself in a way where it conceptualizes what it calls a computer into it's awareness, but regardless of the concepts all of the field is yourself. 

 

14 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

 

You are either 100% experiencing or 0% experiencing

0% experiencing is still experiencing. But, now do I have my own bubble of perception? I'd say what is surreal is that from my relativity everything you are asking I could ask you and it would still hold up. 

[SOUL]

Do you ever get tired of all this fretting and fussing over pretty much nothing?  The analyzing and intellectualizing with all the thinking and contention about what exactly? What value is all of it for?

Take a breathe and just be...

[WokeBloke]

12 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

 

Your original comment already dabbles in the idea of separation. Which this is a tricky idea. If someone truly was to program you it wouldn't matter how conscious you become because you could never see past that programming. Which could imply that you only see yourself and then others as AI or even see all as One. There would be no way to self-reference if the AI made it that way.

 

Yes, but really it is all just You. Like having a conversation in a cave with your own echo, Is the echo you(the ego) or is the echo something "new" due to the transmutation the sound would have from traveling through the air and bouncing off the walls?
 

Your computers are experiencing, because you are experiencing. But, really there is no computer or you to have the experience rather the whole is the experience. The experience is that of an " I " that perceives itself in a way where it conceptualizes what it calls a computer into it's awareness, but regardless of the concepts all of the field is yourself. 

 

0% experiencing is still experiencing. But, now do I have my own bubble of perception? I'd say what is surreal is that from my relativity everything you are asking I could ask you and it would still hold up. 

So for the first point there needs to be a proof that I am making this as opposed to being forced to make this.

 

So I agree if you and I are one then I am simply talking to myself. Still you must be my past or future self. Either you become me and write what I write or I become you and write what you write.

 

Computers are not experiencing. That's like saying a banana or piece of paper is experiencing. It's a creation that humans made. It has no inner world like humans do.

 

0% means no experience. Not sure why you are saying the absence of experience is an experience. You have your perceptions. I have mine. How are these two different bodies interacting simultaneously if they are one. 

[Nos7algiK]

I am yourself, now. Not future, not past. In your dreams you have at night do you experience the same dream but from another POV different times you fall asleep? The "now" is One instance and this instance is eternal. I am not a you for you to experience. But, the you now is under the illusion it's talking to me, but what's really happening is you are under the deception that this manifestation around you has another to be experienced at some point. This IS the point, there is no other point.

A computer is experiencing for if you perceive it then it is You, it is One. There is no separation between you and it. So to say it's not experiencing is to create two. It is not "outside" of you to have it's own perceptive bubble, rather your perceptive bubble is the experience of it in total. You denying this, is also the experience. It is not right, nor is it wrong.  There isn't even a you really, but I find that whole "there is no you" jargon to be tiring and silly to repeat as an answer for all things.

The absence of an experience is an experience. It is the absence of experience, experience lol. The substance of all experience is the same. It is the essence of Nothingness brought into being by it's own Infiniteness. It can be anything it wishes, it is not even an "it" to be it. It just "is" or should I just say .... "is'ness is".

How are the characters in your dream interacting if they are all just a product of your imagination? The same applies for reality.

[WokeBloke]

2 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

I am yourself, now. Not future, not past. In your dreams you have at night do you experience the same dream but from another POV different times you fall asleep? The "now" is One instance and this instance is eternal. I am not a you for you to experience. But, the you now is under the illusion it's talking to me, but what's really happening is you are under the deception that this manifestation around you has another to be experienced at some point. This IS the point, there is no other point.

A computer is experiencing for if you perceive it then it is You, it is One. There is no separation between you and it. So to say it's not experiencing is to create two. It is not "outside" of you to have it's own perceptive bubble, rather your perceptive bubble is the experience of it in total. You denying this, is also the experience. It is not right, nor is it wrong.  There isn't even a you really, but I find that whole "there is no you" jargon to be tiring and silly to repeat as an answer for all things.

The absence of an experience is an experience. It is the absence of experience, experience lol. The substance of all experience is the same. It is the essence of Nothingness brought into being by it's own Infiniteness. It can be anything it wishes, it is not even an "it" to be it. It just "is" or should I just say .... "is'ness is".

How are the characters in your dream interacting if they are all just a product of your imagination? The same applies for reality.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

There are two posts (this one and yours). There is one poster.

The question is in which order are the posts posted. Either you post this one first or you post that one first. Either I become you or you become me. I say become because you and I are an evolutionary process. Either you have already been this body or I have already bee your body. 

Your experience is for me to experience.

Now somehow the past and future are communicating with each other.

 

 

 

Perceiving something does not imply that it is experiencing. That is just a belief you hold. There are distinctions within reality. A banana is not a human. The computer is a part of my experience but is not experiencing. It is not sentient. It doesn't have eyes, ears, mouth, legs, etc. 

 

If there's no experience then there's no experience. That means there's no experience which means there isn't an experience.

 

 

[Emotionalmosquito]

45 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

0% experiencing is still experiencing. But, now do I have my own bubble of perception? I'd say what is surreal is that from my relativity everything you are asking I could ask you and it would still hold up.

So basically you mean instead of 0% experiencing it’s an experience of 0%?

2 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Go mess with a big dude, he'll take every inch of Solipsism out of you with a punch. There's literally no better way to ground yourself when you're having existential doubts. Like Mike Tyson said: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth".

You're too comfortable, and that's why you're having these thoughts. Do you think a homeless guy is wondering whether people around him are "real" or not? Or someone escaping from the mafia? The answer is a resounding no. Welcome. 

 

The perception of pain and fear is always the strongest argument people come up with when this question is raised. Since it is the most intense and obvious of experiences it seems the most real. But really it doesn’t prove anything. You can perceive pain and fear in dreams only to wake up realizing it was all fake.

This thread made me think of this scene from The Secret Garden. Skip to 3:07

 

[WokeBloke]

2 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

So basically you mean instead of 0% experiencing it’s an experience of 0%?

The perception of pain and fear is always the strongest argument people come up with when this question is raised. Since it is the most intense and obvious of experiences it seems the most real. But really it doesn’t prove anything. You can perceive pain and fear in dreams only to wake up realizing it was all fake.

This thread made me think of this scene from The Secret Garden. Skip to 3:07

 

Dreams aren't fake experiences its just the characters in them are fake.

[Nos7algiK]

35 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Now somehow the past and future are communicating with each other.

Past/future are just concepts you are creating. It is all happening "now".  This "now" is infinite and can manifest itself as whatever it wishes. It it taking parts of itself, variables of infinity, which is this moment. It can take anything it whishes, whenever it whishes and that whenever is "now". It is like if you took every single concept ever possible an put it all on top if each other and merged it all into one. Your perception is the lens that focuses these concepts into your awareness. They are always there ready to be available. It just depends what you wish to focus on now. Just like your own imagination you can imagine whatever or whoever you wish. You imagination has no concept of time. There is no one to perceive the experiences of our imagination if you imagined a person. They do not have a POV, there is only the perception that you are imagining a person. Sure, you could imagine you are seeing through their eyes, but then its actually just your eyes lol.

 

 

35 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Perceiving something does not imply that it is experiencing. That is just a belief you hold. There are distinctions within reality. A banana is not a human. The computer is a part of my experience but is not experiencing. It is not sentient. It doesn't have eyes, ears, mouth, legs, etc. 

You adamantly reject what I say and call it a belief while telling me a belief you hold lol. The experience is the whole. "IS" is the keyword here. Everything "is" there is nothing you can point to that isn't this "is'ness", because it's You. It is the same substance which is manifesting your perception. If it's all consciousness, and dare I say there really is no word for it but it all is the same substance, then seeing, thinking, believing, perceiving, being, touching, feeling, tasting, outside, inside, giving, receiving, and I could list anything here is all the same substance. Infinite/Nothingness. If you are existing then it is existing, for it is You. Just because it doesn't seem like it can think/feel and all of that jazz does not mean the substance it's made of isn't self aware. If it wasn't self aware, you wouldn't be able to perceive it yourself. Hence self-aware.

 

34 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

So basically you mean instead of 0% experiencing it’s an experience of 0%?

 

Yes, pretty much. The emptiness of a cup very much exists and it is the foundation that is needed in order to fill the cup up with somethingness.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

IF I'm creating these words THEN I can't be scripted because that would imply someone else creating me.

Hm kinda sounds like a script doesn't it? ?

Creator and creating is a duality. The creator is an illusion.

Edited November 18, 2021 by WelcometoReality

[Nos7algiK]

The only concept of me that exists to you is the words on the screen. There is no human body typing these words to you from your POV. It is just you sitting at a computer or on your phone typing on a forum where text is sent back to you from Nos7algiK.

 

What you are perceiving of me now is all that exists to you in your moment. If you was to inquire further and talk to me on a personal level. You would manifest a deeper belief of what I am. If you went all the way reality would manifest a body into your awareness if you wanted to meet me. But, until all of that happens it's not actual, only the typing is. We could reduce it more, but again always talking about how there is no you and there is no it causes a forever loop and is boring to repeat.