Austria introduces lockdown for unvaccinated

[Ima Freeman]

@Knowledge Hoarder

I would say fascism is a type of goverment emerging in Europe in the 20s to 30s of the 20th century. The original fascist system was created in Italy but similar later systems were called 'fascist' as well.

It is characterized by being a totalitarian dictatorship and one party political system, focusing on nationalism, militarism and imperialism. The ideology pervades every aspect of society, with the goal to bring every organization (companies, clubs, associations) under the control and administration of the fascist party/dictator.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Ima Freeman

[PurpleTree]

 

[Ry4n]

On 22/11/2021 at 4:56 AM, BadHippie said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/#!po=27.0833

Interesting study, even though the method isn't perfect. But if we base all the measures on the incidence, we can also base a study on it. 

Does anyone who supports mandatory vaccination here have a counter argument/study to this one? Would love a link, I’m still not finding much evidence of the significant decrease in transmission rates post jab in large populations. 

(I got the vax btw so not pushing an agenda one way or another just would like to see more studies on this). 

At least my take so far is that 80% + fully vaccinated (on top of boosters for the vulnerable and old) combined with other health protocols appears sufficient and the government can subsequently step back as a result so everyone’s happy. 

And to be more blunt the ones who will die from this will most likely die, we cannot keep denying reality until the life we’re trying to save becomes one not worth saving anymore. 

[Carl-Richard]

16 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

At least my take so far is that 80% + fully vaccinated (on top of boosters for the vulnerable and old) combined with other health protocols appears sufficient and the government can subsequently step back as a result so everyone’s happy. 

Unvaccinated people put a lot of unnecessary strain on the healthcare system.

[Ry4n]

35 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Unvaccinated people put a lot of unnecessary strain on the healthcare system.

I definitely don’t deny that, but does that apply to populations 90% fully vaccinated such as where I live (Melbourne)? Some examples would help. 

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

I definitely don’t deny that, but does that apply to populations 90% fully vaccinated such as where I live (Melbourne)? Some examples would help. 

10% of Melbourne's population is half a million people.

[Ry4n]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

10% of Melbourne's population is half a million people.

Are there examples of 90% fully vaccinated populations where the healthcare system is overwhelmed despite sufficient funding?

[BadHippie]

Honestly, it feel to me like most of you people here suffer from cognitive dissonance. I can´t even find an argument for getting the vaccine anymore. 

There is excess mortality here in Germany in almost all the federal states. Why wasn´t there excess mortality last year at the same time, when no one was vaccinated? 
This: "It´s because of all the unvaccinated people", sounds just like projection to me. How about looking inside and try to find a different model that explains it all in a different way. I never ever heard a good explanation of "Why" the vaccine is necessary on here. People just seem to take it for granted. 

Explain it to me like I´m five, I´m just a stupid conspiracy theorist after all... All you guys seem to do is point to some studies, which I can do too. -> Underdetermination Problem

Also personal experience is king. And mine is that everyone of my friends who got the vaccine is getting sick more often than ever before. Same in the workplace at my brothers place. 

Well our health-minister said I will either die or get COVID. The bet is on, as I haven´t been sick for two years+.  

 

[Carl-Richard]

42 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

Are there examples of 90% fully vaccinated populations where the healthcare system is overwhelmed despite sufficient funding?

Melbourne and Australla at large is at around 70%. Are you only counting people over 12?

[Ry4n]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Melbourne and Australla at large is at around 70%. Are you only counting people over 12?

Nah that's a wrong statistic in regards to Melbourne.

[Epikur]

Some new findings about the vaccines

 

Quote

Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines

Large-scale COVID-19 vaccinations are currently underway in many countries in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Here, we report, besides generation of neutralizing antibodies, consistent alterations in hemoglobin A1c, serum sodium and potassium levels, coagulation profiles, and renal functions in healthy volunteers after vaccination with an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Similar changes had also been reported in COVID-19 patients, suggesting that vaccination mimicked an infection. Single-cell mRNA sequencing (scRNA-seq) of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) before and 28 days after the first inoculation also revealed consistent alterations in gene expression of many different immune cell types. Reduction of CD8+ T cells and increase in classic monocyte contents were exemplary. Moreover, scRNA-seq revealed increased NF-κB signaling and reduced type I interferon responses, which were confirmed by biological assays and also had been reported to occur after SARS-CoV-2 infection with aggravating symptoms. Altogether, our study recommends additional caution when vaccinating people with pre-existing clinical conditions, including diabetes, electrolyte imbalances, renal dysfunction, and coagulation disorders.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-021-00329-3#Sec1

Edited November 24, 2021 by Epikur

[Heinrich Faust]

On 21.11.2021 at 7:52 PM, BadHippie said:

Depends on how you define fascism.

No, it's pretty clear that fascism is stage blue and the Austrian regulations are stage green. Using terms like "fascism" against all non-liberal policies you don't like, is either a non-understanding, a misunderstanding, or a misuse of Spiral Dynamics.

And even if you want to say it feels like fascism, you should just watch a good documentary about Mussolini and the Blackshirts. Then, you might get an idea how fascism actually feels like.

[Epikur]

It helps apparently if you can find an expert who deals with it like in this example:

 

[Philipp]

@BadHippie you have three options and you HAVE to choose one:

A. Do nothing, no or minimal restrictions. Covid goes viral.  Many people get sick. Many people die, even people that were vaccinated, since vaccine do not protect 100%. Hospitals system gets overburdened. Many people that need operations, won't be able to get them (this can also apply to healthy 25 year olds, who have no risk from covid). Many people won't get proper treatment to covid. So even more people will die. Tourism will also suffer, since no one wants to go to Covid land for their vaccation.

B. We have very restrictive Measures, such as Lockdowns, to prevent Covid from spreading. The economy suffers immensely from those restrictions, as well as the people. 

C. You somehow manage to convince more than 90% of people (maybe even a bit more) to get vaccinated and thus to create a heard immunity (maybe combined with some minor measures, such as masks and testing). A third dose will also be necessary and eventually after one year or two a fourth probably aswell, however the distance between doses should increase each time, maybe even exponentially. 

 

At least 99% of doctors and epidemiologist agree that there is not other options. If you want to believe in some weird doctors who think differently, don't expect people to respect your opinion. 99% of doctors is definitly better than 1%. You are not expert, don't start thinking that you are. All argument you read on the internet are usually very limited, false, misinterpreted, but you won't realize, SINCE YOU ARE NO EXPERT. 

 

[Epikur]

Just now, Philipp said:

@BadHippie you have three options and you HAVE to choose one:

A. Do nothing, no or minimal restrictions. Covid goes viral.  Many people get sick. Many people die, even people that were vaccinated, since vaccine do not protect 100%. Hospitals system gets overburdened. Many people that need operations, won't be able to get them (this can also apply to healthy 25 year olds, who have no risk from covid). Many people won't get proper treatment to covid. So even more people will die. Tourism will also suffer, since no one wants to go to Covid land for their vaccation.

B. We have very restrictive Measures, such as Lockdowns, to prevent Covid from spreading. The economy suffers immensely from those restrictions, as well as the people. 

C. You somehow manage to convince more than 90% of people (maybe even a bit more) to get vaccinated and thus to create a heard immunity (maybe combined with some minor measures, such as masks and testing). A third dose will also be necessary and eventually after one year or two a fourth probably aswell, however the distance between doses should increase each time, maybe even exponentially. 

 

At least 99% of doctors and epidemiologist agree that there is not other options. If you want to believe in some weird doctors who think differently, don't expect people to respect your opinion. 99% of doctors is definitly better than 1%. You are not expert, don't start thinking that you are. All argument you read on the internet are usually very limited, false, misinterpreted, but you won't realize, SINCE YOU ARE NO EXPERT. 

 

Between A and B is a range from 0 to 10.

[Philipp]

@Epikur no I would not say, either you control the virus, which means it reproduction rate is below 1, or you don't, which would lead to a steady exponential rise. 

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Ry4n said:

Nah that's a wrong statistic in regards to Melbourne.

The statistics are all over the place. Australian statistics tend to count only those over 16. Do you have a source?

[Epikur]

Seems like Afrika is doing ok though not much news are coming.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-54418613
Coronavirus in Africa: Five reasons why Covid-19 has been less deadly than elsewhere

[Johnny Galt]

@Carl-Richard I said what I said, because of what "hard kill" said, at the beginning of this thread

"You don't have the right to spread the disease just like you don't have the right to create a mass wildlife within your community."

There's also then messages from people like Biden 

 

You now have people like Gates saying that "they only slightly reduce transmissions". If this is correct then to enforce mandates on everyone, how is this justifiable?

Also, considering the amount of adverse reactions I'm seeing, coupled with the denial and downplay of the reactions which in turn leaves injured people out in the cold in regards to getting help, how is this about our "health"? when their injuries are being dismissed? Here's just one of many examples:

 

Also, with the push for passports will come the push for childhood vaccines, in Austria and rest of the world. 

Here in Canada they are pushing it for kids while claiming it's "safe and effective". Considering the info below, how can they make such claims? How can they know that? 

"The number of participants in the current clinical development program is too small to detect any potential risks of myocarditis associated with vaccination. Long-term safety of COVID-19 vaccine in participants 5 to <12 years of age will be studied in
5 post-authorization safety studies, including a 5-year follow-up study to evaluate long term sequelae of post-vaccination myocarditis/pericarditis."

https://www.fda.gov/media/153409/download

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[cookiemonster]

4 hours ago, Philipp said:

You are not expert, don't start thinking that you are.

 

This is the way a slave thinks.

How are you expected to walk on water, or turn water into wine, as long as you think like that?