Pickup feels fake and low conscious

[unborn_chicken]

8 minutes ago, lxlichael said:

@unborn_chicken I know right. I'm legendary.

Okay hahhahaa. No need to go on a ego trip though 
 

8 minutes ago, lxlichael said:

Where's Dr, Dolittle to speak to the cranially challenged (comparable to lower animals other than black panther's, rabbits and cats in general)?

Not sure about rabbits, but cats are definitely way too advanced compared to us poor little hoomans.

[something_else]

26 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Exactly. Agree with this. A man can be confident on his own without having to do that extra stuff. There are plenty of men who are naturally confident. Even going to a gym and maintaining a fit body does wonders in terms of confidence. 

And if that doesn't give him confidence, then he got serious insecurities. 

Yea and plenty, if not most, who aren't naturally confident lmao

That's who we're talking about here

And working out isn't gonna solve anyone's lack of social confidence, male or female. It'll help but it's far from the only step

You're not gonna develop social confidence without being social

34 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Do you really think Doestoevsky would've written all the great literature he wrote if he had been too preoccupied with being flirty and picking up chicks?

Do you really think Bach would've composed all the great music he did?

Do you really think buddha would've realized what he realized

 

Why should the process of becoming confident have to take place in a club or a bar with loud obnoxious music?

Why should it have to take place stopping random chicks in a mall to ask for their number?

Why not just live your life, do the things you want to do and develop confidence in your OWN WAY OF BEING along the way?

Good luck doing anything remotely creative as a dude if you don't feel your sexual needs have been met

It takes place in these places because you develop social confidence by being social

This "just be yourself" advice is ways really sketchy because there's no actual pragmatic way to "just be yourself", it requires a hell of a lot of work for many people and if you want to "just be yourself" in social situations then you need to expose yourself to them directly and frequently

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

You're not gonna develop social confidence without being social

There are plenty of ways to be social. You can join a yoga class, you can go on a hiking trip, you can socialize with people at your workplace. If you think clubbing is the only way to grow social skills, then that's a narrow infantile view on socialization. 

 

[unborn_chicken]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

There are plenty of ways to be social. You can join a yoga class, you can go on a hiking trip, you can socialize with people at your workplace. If you think clubbing is the only way to grow social skills, then that's a narrow infantile view on socialization. 

 

@something_else Duh...

[unborn_chicken]

8 minutes ago, something_else said:

This "just be yourself" advice is ways really sketchy because there's no actual pragmatic way to "just be yourself", it requires a hell of a lot of work for many people and if you want to "just be yourself" in social situations then you need to expose yourself to them directly and frequently

I'm not saying you have to know yourself 100% without any mistake.

But c'mon, most of us have more than a clue of what kind of personality we have, which kind of things we like and which not. It's not rocket science.

[something_else]

Just now, Preety_India said:

There are plenty of ways to be social. You can join a yoga class, you can go on a hiking trip, you can socialize with people at your workplace. If you think clubbing is the only way to grow social skills, then that's a narrow infantile view on socialization. 

 

Did I say clubbing was the only way to be social?

Clubs are extremely effective for improving social skills though. I've had social anxiety since mid teens and going to clubs recently has been a huge step in dealing with that because they're pretty much the most intense social situation you can put yourself in

I've also done a whole bunch of less intense social stuff like jiu jitsu classes, chess club, board game nights etc. and none of it has exposed me to as many new people in such a short space of time as going out partying

Others may have a different path of course

[Preety_India]

58 minutes ago, something_else said:

Did I say clubbing was the only way to be social?

Clubs are extremely effective for improving social skills though. I've had social anxiety since mid teens and going to clubs recently has been a huge step in dealing with that because they're pretty much the most intense social situation you can put yourself in

I've also done a whole bunch of less intense social stuff like jiu jitsu classes, chess club, board game nights etc. and none of it has exposed me to as many new people in such a short space of time as going out partying

Others may have a different path of course

What I was trying to say is that there are many people out there who might not like to visit clubs for whatever reason. So there are other options as well. Especially if you have intense social anxiety, for example I have social anxiety as well, and being in  a crowd makes me even more anxious, especially a noisy crowd. So there are softer options that don't involve clubbing. 

 

(made a lot of typos sorry) 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Preety_India

[Gesundheit2]

While we're at it, brushing your teeth is inauthentic. The toothpaste and the toothbrush are inauthentic.

Ooh, ooh. And girls waxing their legs for you is also inauthentic.

Do you know what's really authentic? Not wearing clothes. Farting unapologetically in front of other people.

Welcome to the jungle. The world is your toilet 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[funcool]

Its actually one of the highest consciousness things you can do. It forces you to become outcome independent in order to keep going at it. Forces you to be in the present. Forces you to be spontaneous and witty which requires you to have a meta awareness of the identity your holding and its relationship to the other person or persons identities.

[funcool]

13 hours ago, Electron said:

Edit: My point is that if, ultimately, "truth" is what is making you attractive and if at the end, self-awareness is going to give you the kind of relationship filled with deep love and intimacy, why not prioritize truth directly (if you can), rather than spending 5-10 years jumping from one 5/10 relationship to another?  Makes sense? 

the truth is that if you want fruit you gotta till the soil and plant the seeds. You can sit indoors in your chair thinking about truth and love till ur dead and you won't experience any of it. The truth is that you neglected what ur body wants and that aint love. Your body wants to go out and experience other bodies, trying to deny your nature doesn't bring you closer to truth.

Edited November 15, 2021 by funcool

[Gili Trawangan]

It's neither high consciousness nor low consciousness, what's with all the labeling and demonization of the other "side"?

It's extremely simple, if you're not happy with your dating prospects at the moment and you want to fulfill some desires in that area of your life, you can try pickup. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't, maybe it works for you and maybe it doesn't.

If you're happy just the way you are and learning pickup feels off to you, don't do it.

But judging those who do it - or judging those who don't do it - is just that - judgement. It doesn't hold up. People are different, and what will be will be.

[Loba]

It is fake, I wish someone told me about how men operated as a young woman.  If I had known I might not have internalized so much toxicity that comes from men who are born from that sort of culture; pick-up culture.

The only way to protect yourself from it is not to date.  I don't blame pick-up, most people are garbage, that's life.  We come here on this planet to learn to navigate and pinball around human stupidity, that's the real game.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/persons-means/

All about treating people as a means to an end.

Quote

Sometimes it is morally wrong to treat persons as means. When a person says that someone is treating him merely as a means, for example, he often implies that she is failing to abide by a moral norm. Ethically disapproving judgments that a person is “just using” or sometimes simply “using” another are common in everyday discourse (e.g., Goldman & Schmidt 2018). Authors appeal to the idea that research on human subjects (Levine 2007: 140; Van der Graaf and Van Delden 2012), management of employees (Haywood 1918: 217), and criminal punishment (Duff 1986: 178–179) is wrong if it involves treating persons merely as means....

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Loba

[SQAAD]

@something_else

12 hours ago, something_else said:

@SQAAD If what you say is totally true what you're essentially saying is that incel-types should embrace their loneliness and lack of social skills, stay at home and just do whatever feels natural to their 'authentic self'. If your authentic self is sitting around at home wallowing in self-pity then guess they just gotta embrace that, right?

The problem with the 'just be who you are' advice is that you might for some reason or another be terrible at expressing your authentic self, you might have some legitimately bad traits , or you might lack some important skills and fixing that all requires some action

I'd agree framing it as pickup is a bit questionable, better to talk about learning to socialise, especially with girls, I think. That's the lens I view it through anyway

It's very difficult to argue that confidence is not a trait everyone should try to develop

If you lack confidence you literally cannot be authentic with others, it's impossible. And something like pickup/socialisation is designed to help you develop that confidence and ability to express yourself

I don't buy this whole scheme that we all should be confident and macho. Some people are naturally less dominant, less macho and much more feminine.  Everyone has his own unique temperament. Imagine if you were to go to the gym, lift 50 pounds on the bench and some other people were making fun of you saying what a weakling you are.. ''You are not a real man unless you lift 300 pounds at least. Otherwise you are a pathetic weakling''. Stuff like that happens every day. Maybe you are fine with being so weak and lifting only 50 pounds at the bench. And you see nothing wrong with it. But no, now you have to change that to earn the approval of other men. Same analogy applies to pickup.

I am all about developing yourself and becoming more confident and removing all the toxic junk from someones childhood. But at the same time i see through all this facade in business, relationships and everywhere. Its all just an egoic attemp to manipulate reality so you can get the woman you want, the money you want etc. Its all about acting a certain way, saying the right words, pushing the right buttons. Its more about manipulation than is about authenticity. 

Not even Leo can be authentic. He can't upload whatever he wants (like live trips) otherwise it will hurt his business. If you are authentic you don't go anywhere in life. Only the most egotistical, clever and manipulative people survive well in this world.

Most people change their ways just so they can fit into some certain box, and achieve a certain result. It usually doesn't come from some authentic desire. It is conformity. Let me act this way so i can get the girls i want, the money i want etc. Let me conform to what other people expect from me otherwise i am fked. Its a game nobody can avoid playing. I am not saying that one shouldnt play the game. My point is that its primarily all about manipulations and ploys.

When i take mushrooms i always see throught all this facade. All this fake bs. Nobody is truly authentic because it would hurt you survival. We are all ''money sees, monkey does''.  Just being part of a society you have to be fake and inauthentic to a large extent in order to survive. You have to trim down the aspects of you that other egoic minds don't like, dont' approve. And enhance the aspects of you that other egoic minds will approve.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by SQAAD

[Raze]

@Electron I suggest trying advice from David Tian. He is a former pick up artist but tries to make his advice more conscious.

 

[Shin]

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

@something_else

I don't buy this whole scheme that we all should be confident and macho. Some people are naturally less dominant, less macho and much more feminine.  Everyone has his own unique temperament. Imagine if you were to go to the gym, lift 50 pounds on the bench and some other people were making fun of you saying what a weakling you are.. ''You are not a real man unless you lift 300 pounds at least. Otherwise you are a pathetic weakling''. Stuff like that happens every day. Maybe you are fine with being so weak and lifting only 50 pounds at the bench. And you see nothing wrong with it. But no, now you have to change that to earn the approval of other men. Same analogy applies to pickup.

I am all about developing yourself and becoming more confident and removing all the toxic junk from someones childhood. But at the same time i see through all this facade in business, relationships and everywhere. Its all just an egoic attemp to manipulate reality so you can get the woman you want, the money you want etc. Its all about acting a certain way, saying the right words, pushing the right buttons. Its more about manipulation than is about authenticity. 

Not even Leo can be authentic. He can't upload whatever he wants (like live trips) otherwise it will hurt his business. If you are authentic you don't go anywhere in life. Only the most egotistical, clever and manipulative people survive well in this world.

Most people change their ways just so they can fit into some certain box, and achieve a certain result. It usually doesn't come from some authentic desire. It is conformity. Let me act this way so i can get the girls i want, the money i want etc. Let me conform to what other people expect from me otherwise i am fked. Its a game nobody can avoid playing. I am not saying that one shouldnt play the game. My point is that its primarily all about manipulations and ploys.

When i take mushrooms i always see throught all this facade. All this fake bs. Nobody is truly authentic because it would hurt you survival. We are all ''money sees, monkey does''.  Just being part of a society you have to be fake and inauthentic to a large extent in order to survive. You have to trim down the aspects of you that other egoic minds don't like, dont' approve. And enhance the aspects of you that other egoic minds will approve.

 

 

Please don't kill yourself man

 

[Dryas]

expressing your authentic self requires game. At least that's what I've gathered from the series.

[Gesundheit2]

31 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Lol

I think I'll stop taking showers from now on, after all, why manipulate people with a nice smell, if I can smell authentically shitty, the way Mother Nature made me?

Yes, because God cannot fit inside of a shampoo bottle.

Besides, women love dirty men, anyway.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Etherial Cat]

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

@something_else

I don't buy this whole scheme that we all should be confident and macho. Some people are naturally less dominant, less macho and much more feminine.  Everyone has his own unique temperament. Imagine if you were to go to the gym, lift 50 pounds on the bench and some other people were making fun of you saying what a weakling you are.. ''You are not a real man unless you lift 300 pounds at least. Otherwise you are a pathetic weakling''. Stuff like that happens every day. Maybe you are fine with being so weak and lifting only 50 pounds at the bench. And you see nothing wrong with it. But no, now you have to change that to earn the approval of other men. Same analogy applies to pickup.

I am all about developing yourself and becoming more confident and removing all the toxic junk from someones childhood. But at the same time i see through all this facade in business, relationships and everywhere. Its all just an egoic attemp to manipulate reality so you can get the woman you want, the money you want etc. Its all about acting a certain way, saying the right words, pushing the right buttons. Its more about manipulation than is about authenticity. 

Not even Leo can be authentic. He can't upload whatever he wants (like live trips) otherwise it will hurt his business. If you are authentic you don't go anywhere in life. Only the most egotistical, clever and manipulative people survive well in this world.

Most people change their ways just so they can fit into some certain box, and achieve a certain result. It usually doesn't come from some authentic desire. It is conformity. Let me act this way so i can get the girls i want, the money i want etc. Let me conform to what other people expect from me otherwise i am fked. Its a game nobody can avoid playing. I am not saying that one shouldnt play the game. My point is that its primarily all about manipulations and ploys.

When i take mushrooms i always see throught all this facade. All this fake bs. Nobody is truly authentic because it would hurt you survival. We are all ''money sees, monkey does''.  Just being part of a society you have to be fake and inauthentic to a large extent in order to survive. You have to trim down the aspects of you that other egoic minds don't like, dont' approve. And enhance the aspects of you that other egoic minds will approve.

 

It's the whole authenticity vs attachment thing, but extended. That pattern doesn't stop at the end of childhood but gets reported on social groups who provides for your survival, as we are an interdependent specie. 

We all got conditioned and molded into something that doesn't fit our subjective truth. Reconnecting with who we are beneath the persona, and re-organizing our life accordingly can totally temper the level of falsehood we deal with.

 

 

[Etherial Cat]

@Nos7algiK

Thanks!

We both see the same things, I'm under the impression. 

[gettoefl]

4 hours ago, Loba said:

It is fake, I wish someone told me about how men operated as a young woman.  If I had known I might not have internalized so much toxicity that comes from men who are born from that sort of culture; pick-up culture.

The only way to protect yourself from it is not to date.  I don't blame pick-up, most people are garbage, that's life.  We come here on this planet to learn to navigate and pinball around human stupidity, that's the real game.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/persons-means/

All about treating people as a means to an end.

 

pick up for men is as make up for women, go check yt what is popular for each gender, boils down to each getting their happy ending

both are a way to get your foot in the door after which you can revert to being you again

basically he needs balls, she needs heels, otherwise humanity will die out

second half of life we are beyond this well hopefully

i hope you are having an awesome day