Pickup feels fake and low conscious

[Loba]

@gettoefl I hope you're having an awesome day, too.  Thx.

[gettoefl]

Just now, Loba said:

@gettoefl I hope you're having an awesome day, too.  Thx.

i always love your words on here thanks

[yolosmoothie]

I have come across this really interesting paradigm called social heartistry created created by John Cooper.  He used to work as a dating coach for the natural lifestyles.  But he felt that there was something unhealthy about even 'natural game'. He tries to provide a different framework for men to improve their dating lives that has different foundations than pickup. The foundations of pickup rests on the primary intention of taking/acquiring, rather than unconditional giving (taking numbers, taking validation, taking sex, taking her home, etc. Even when giving value it is conditional giving because within the pickup frame it is used as a strategy to get something from the girl). Working, rather than playing in the present with no strategy or expectation (working for an outcome in the future. Even if you are having fun that is used as a strategy to get the outcome you want of getting laid). Feeling hole, rather than feeling whole.

Like pack-man people in game go out on the hunt for women in order to acquire the missing piece of the pie (the girl) to temporary make them feel complete. When coming from a place of lack like this, you will be inherently very needy. Therefore, pickup comes up with strategies to try to cover up the needy smell like push-pull, alpha-male behavior, cocky-funny, disqualification, qualifying, time-constraint, etc. The idea of social heartistry is that a man who feels whole, is on his purpose in life (girls are the secondary priority), embodies unconditional giving and play, will naturally attract women naturally like planets gravitate towards the sun. He just shines his light on everyone, and some people will love it and others will prefer to step into the shade. No matter how girls react to him, he keeps shining his light like the sun on everyone. You could see it as black hole energy (hunting for women to make you feel complete) vs sun energy.

 

Of course, when the foundations of unconditional giving, play and autonomy is established, one needs to project their desire to women, take masculine action and learn emotional intelligence. However, it will be coming from a place of co-creation, flow, empathy, connection, love, rather than fear, control, force, selfishness. I'm just outlining some of the ideas of social heartistry, but I don't know if this paradigm is a realistic solution for many guys struggling very much with girls. Since it is very difficult to let go of how we have been conditioned, especially for guys who have invested a lot into pickup. Social heartistry tries to integrate the feminine and masculine aspect of you, while pickup focuses primarily on the masculine. A danger with social heartistry is that you can use it as a way to shy away from taking masculine action with women where you express your sexual desire and pull the trigger.

I'm critiquing the pickup frame now, but it helped me a lot some years ago. Due to pickup I did around a 1000 approaches, mostly daytime, gained a lot more romantic and sexual experience, improved my skills, and worked with many limiting beliefs and insecurities.

I did this for almost a year, and then had 2 years of spirituality as my main focus in life. At times I got quite obsessed with spirituality at the cost of other aspects of my life. I also did have many awakenings on 5meo and LSD during this period. It deeply changed me, my values and how I want to show up in the world. Now that I feel the urge to further explore romantic and sexual experiences again, I find that listening to pickup content or taking on that perspective doesn't feel right for me and makes me feel a lot of internal dissonance. It just doesn't resonate like it used to. I want to find a way to be with women that embodies love and wholeness and I suspect that I won't find that within the pickup paradigm. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by yolosmoothie

[yolosmoothie]

the last video is best to start with since it is a very brief summary. 

 

[Etherial Cat]

@yolosmoothie

These are Chad words. 

 

[yolosmoothie]

Haha ? 

Edited November 15, 2021 by yolosmoothie

[Thunder Kiss]

5 hours ago, Loba said:

I wish someone told me about how men operated as a young woman.  If I had known I might not have internalized so much toxicity that comes from men who are born from that sort of culture; pick-up culture.

The only way to protect yourself from it is not to date.  I don't blame pick-up, most people are garbage, that's life.  We come here on this planet to learn to navigate and pinball around human stupidity, that's the real game.

i agree.  in a way im glad this is all getting more awareness and becoming more out in the open because at least women  are learning about pickup artists and what kind of tricks to look out for, so not to be manipulated so easily.  One of the pain reasons pickup doesnt work on all women is because it's so obvious to a woman when a man is being pushy with her in order to "close" asap  and get her into bed.  clearly few women want to sleep with a stranger whom they just met and pickup is about trying with hundreds of women until you find 1 girl who is up for the fun there and then.  which is why its easier doing it in clubs when girls are drunk and aren't fully concious about what they are doing, even though the pickup artist is most likely sober.

 

[Harlen Kelly]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Besides, women love dirty men, anyway.

???? ? ?  Can I get Amen

 

[something_else]

7 hours ago, Gili Trawangan said:

It's neither high consciousness nor low consciousness, what's with all the labeling and demonization of the other "side"?

It's extremely simple, if you're not happy with your dating prospects at the moment and you want to fulfill some desires in that area of your life, you can try pickup. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't, maybe it works for you and maybe it doesn't.

If you're happy just the way you are and learning pickup feels off to you, don't do it.

But judging those who do it - or judging those who don't do it - is just that - judgement. It doesn't hold up. People are different, and what will be will be.

I think this is the most insightful post here. Ultimately it doesn't fucking matter as long as you're treating people with a decent amount of respect

9 hours ago, Marcel said:

Just pursuing sex just for the sake of sex feels so repulsive to me. I’d rather be 100% authentically myself and get rejected then using any artificial techniques that look like a god damn game plan

This is also a misunderstanding. In fact I see this as one of the most common arguments against 'pickup' and I agree with it. Using dumb and artificial techniques is a terrible idea and extremely inauthentic. But it isn't the kind of pickup that is taught here or most places for that matter. Very rarely are there any superficial techniques suggested, it's much more about learning how dating/socialisation works at its core

How on earth do you plan on being authentically yourself in social situations that scare you if you've never been exposed to them, or you run away from them because they "aren't who you are"? I've spent half my life telling myself I "just wasn't a social person" and now that I've actually started being sociable I've realised that I was full of shit. Going to a club, bar, partying, sports classes etc. are all still quite terrifying but I almost always end up having a good time, for the first time ever I'm actually starting to feel like I can be slightly more genuine around others, especially girls, instead of scared. If that's not growth I don't know what is

5 hours ago, SQAAD said:

I am all about developing yourself and becoming more confident and removing all the toxic junk from someones childhood

Me too. And for me that is social anxiety. And I don't plan on solving that from my couch. Tried that for 5 years because it felt the 'most natural' to me and it didn't do shit. Leaving my comfort zone was required to start solving the problem

Yea, there's a whole lot of manipulation involved in survival, and ideally you should try to transcend it. But good luck doing that without mastering the basic elements of survival first

Quote

I don't buy this whole scheme that we all should be confident and macho. Some people are naturally less dominant, less macho and much more feminine

I never said anything about macho and dominant. My point was simply that if you are not reasonably confident in social situations, it's hard to argue against trying to fix that because it creates many fundamental problems in your life and stops you from being authentic with others because you're shit scared of what they think of you all the time

[Salvijus]

Boys, just focus on your spiritual growth, everything else is secondary and will happen according to how evolved you are. Your state of consciouness will decide how the world around you will look like and how successful you are, and relationships, everything...

To give pick up advice is like encouraging apes to be better at apeing. To be better at apeing will not make you happy, maybe it will make you more acceptable among apes and fulfill your apeish desires but you will still remain an ape, even if you become the best ape in the world, you're still an ape, which is the core problem of all the problems. If you want happyness you need to come out of your apeness by investing your time and energy into your spiritual evolution.

Make sense or no? Who cares. Do whatever lol ? 

?

Edited November 15, 2021 by Salvijus

[mandyjw]

6 hours ago, Loba said:

It is fake, I wish someone told me about how men operated as a young woman.  If I had known I might not have internalized so much toxicity that comes from men who are born from that sort of culture; pick-up culture.

The only way to protect yourself from it is not to date.  I don't blame pick-up, most people are garbage, that's life.  We come here on this planet to learn to navigate and pinball around human stupidity, that's the real game.

You can't avoid it, if you try you get more of it, you attract it. Attract what you want. You get what you think about. For me the world is literally full of wonderful, kind, incredibly giving men. If I come here to read too long, I might forget that momentarily. 

If you have a wound and it's fresh, don't run salt on it. 

[Salvijus]

And you can't learn relationships by going out and hitting on women all the time. A successful relationship is a consiquence of a mutual acceptence and respect. If you become an inclusive, loving person all your relationships will become successful (except for a few cases). You can’t achieve this through party club housing. Only through consciouness work when you achieve some union within yourself, then you will be able to connect with people effortlessly. You think echkart tolle did lots of pick up to end up so social and anxiety free? The only thing you will learn through these pick up games is how to manipulate and pretend to be a great guy for a few days. Basicly a good actor you will become. No meaningful relationship will last on such a weak basis. You'll just get laid and that will be the end of the relationship. Unless that's all you want. Which has its own problems long term... 

I don't where I'm going with this nor why I'm writing this.

Stay well ?

Edited November 15, 2021 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

The problem with some of ya'll is that you assume that dating/socializing is supposed to be some noble, mystical, high consciousness thing. It has never been that.

One of the absurdities of spirituality is that people then start to act like they are above animalistic survival when they are anything but.

[Salvijus]

There's nothing "survival" about pick up. It's just feeding and indulging the apeish low conciousness tendencies. Instead of giving advice how to be a successful ape, a wise being enourages people to move and transend their apeness. Where true wellbeing lies.

P.s. of course relationships can be beautiful and high conscious thing. But pick up is different.

?

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

31 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I don't where I'm going with this nor why I'm writing this.

I think I get it now. I'm addicted to drama, lol. I don't even care what you guys do or don't do ? 

Sorry, regards ?

[zazen]

21 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

There's nothing "survival" about pick up. It's just feeding and indulging the apeish low conciousness tendencies. Instead of giving advice how to be a successful ape, a wise being enourages people to move and transend their apeness. Where true wellbeing lies.

P.s. of course relationships can be beautiful and high conscious thing. But pick up is different.

?

 

If pick up just changed its name to socialising a lot of bad connotations would go away from it. A sub section of the pick up industry was toxic and that got the limelight unfortunately. A thread was just created on how its very hard to transcend sexual desire, even Ram Dass didn't manage, even Leo is still pursuing relationships, so what makes us think the average guy can. The path to relationship has changed in todays day. Workplace romance is off due to me too (don't dip your pen in company ink), social circles aren't as prevalent due to the rat race of big cities, people tucked away at home behind screens etc and picking up in your social circle risks destroying the little community bond you have as people don't live in big familial communities anymore also. So people resort to pick up. 

 

Spiral dynamics integrates the lower, sexuality is the stepping stone and lowest rung of the ladder to higher things. Without it how does one climb to higher levels. As Osho even said, spirituality is a rich mans game, the hungry will only care for satiating their hunger, people likewise must satiate their sexuality and intimacy needs. Once sexuality's grips via testosterone declines in middle age this need goes away, but people still have the need for companionship. Intimacy is a survival need, mostly psychological survival to be healthy mentally but this also extends to impacting your physical health as has been studied extensively. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by zazen

[Etherial Cat]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem with some of ya'll is that you assume that dating/socializing is supposed to be some noble, mystical, high consciousness thing. It has never been that.

It obviously can be both. One chose what it wants. 

The question is why would I go for the low consciousness thing when I can get the high consciousness option?

Why aren't you interested in eating 1$ meals at Mcdonalds everyday? Chasing money out of people using the same set of techniques you use on girls? Or selling crack to children?

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

One of the absurdities of spirituality is that people then start to act like they are above animalistic survival when they are anything but.

The aim is conscious survival.

You put this as a priorities this for all areas in your life except for relationship and the dating advices you give.

What infuriates all the women in here is that in an area where love can be so well incarnated, you heavily promote selfishness and deny female REAL affection.  What you come off like is : Love and consciousness for everyone BUT women. 

And you teach guys that survival is what matters most in the domain and do the same as you.

 

[zazen]

2 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

It obviously can be both. One chose what it wants. 

The question is why would I go for the low consciousness thing when I can get the high consciousness option?

Why aren't you interested in eating 1$ meals at Mcdonalds everyday? Chasing money out of people using the same set of techniques you use on girls? Or selling crack to children?

The aim is conscious survival.

You put this as a priorities this for all areas in your life except for relationship and the dating advices you give.

What infuriates all the women in here is that in an area where love can be so well incarnated, you heavily promote selfishness and deny female REAL affection.  What you come off like is : Love and consciousness for everyone BUT women. 

And you teach guys that survival is what matters most in the domain and do the same as you.

 

Many guys are willing to give women real affection, but those guys are invisible or looked at as creeps as they lack strength. For women to experience affection and enjoy it, it has to come from a place of strength and respect. Lust is the foundation from which romantic love grows, that lust is predicated on strength and power in its many forms (physical, social, status, financial, emotional etc). Conscious survival means be conscious to the fact women are over looking you and go learn and do something about it, but to also be respectful and not abusive with the new knowledge you may gain. 

 

Love and consciousness is for everyone, but in the domain of romantic love animal biology has its own laws we must learn to live by. We aren't just spirits interacting with each other but spirits incarnate into biological forms with their own biases interacting with each other. When we speak to someone, we speak to their spirit, their biology, their past experiences/upbringing dictating their current psychological biases and ours to theirs.

 

Spiritual people create an ego on the other side of the coin to act like their above fundamental human needs, a holier than thou attitude of anti pleasure, anti life, asceticism. As long as we are bound by flesh we must live by flesh, but consciously. 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

The question is why would I go for the low consciousness thing when I can get the high consciousness option?

There is nothing high consciousness about who women sleep with.

Please cut the BS.

If women slept with nice beta guys, that's what I would teach. I teach what women reward in the real world, not some fantasy.

I would love nothing more than for women to only sleep with the most conscious guys. But hell will sooner freeze over.

[Etherial Cat]

 

 

@Leo Gura

It sounds awfully like you're saying that women don't have the ability to be attracted to consciousness and will only fall for survival capital? 

If I can recognize the value of consciousness vs survival elsewhere, I can definitely do it as well with men.