But Leo, Dating/Pick Up Cultre Is A Western Concept, Doesn't Work Everywhere

[Mesopotamian]

I just finished the how to get laid episode, and there's something in me that prompted me to object on this work. I think you should have stated clearly that that your advice work in some countries, not everywhere.

Your Pakistani prince guy would never be able to score in Pakistan or in Iraq, but he had to come to a more liberal place. If you had to leave Dallas for Vegas to get more quality girls, then people in many other parts of the world should simply give up.

The structure of the society determines if this works or not. Women at stage blue or lower will have the morality filters, and they become numb to pick up attempts.

I met a British girl few months back and she was a Muslim, we went out and she started to talk how she loves children and how her Muslim mother always reminds her that the clock is ticking, just out of nowhere she was talking about children, and her mother checking if I am interested to marry her and have children with her, and this is not an Iraqi girl, but born and raised in the UK but still tied to family concepts.

For Iraqi girl, she would never ever let you sleep with her until you marry her.

Your advice work more on stage-orange, and above, and even if someone like me tries to go out and approach 30 women per week, they will most likely be stage-blue, with families, mother, father, a tribe, and we will talk needlessly on the phone cuz she can't go outside her home without a solid execuse, It will be impossible to go anywhere or achieve anything in life let alone having sex so it is a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

In fundamentalist religious communities it will not work. Correct.

But in basically all developed modern democracies that have nightlife, it works. So don't make needless excuses.

You have to understand that my videos are designed for people in fairly advanced societies, not literally everyone in the world. When I record my videos I am not recording them for Iraqis. Sorry, but I cannot appeal to everyone on Earth. My teachings are relative to the culture and society that I grew up in, which is a 1st world democracy. If you want to learn from my teachings and you live in an underdeveloped part of the world you will have to adapt the things I say and find what fits and what does not. Dating customs do vary from culture to culture. However, all girls are still fundamentally attracted to similar things in men.

It's sort of luck that you can even access my videos from where you live.

[Nahm]

@Mesopotamian

Hey! No nationalizing! It’s not a western culture or western concept at all. We have lots of ethical moral long term thinkers so to speak over here as well! 

[Mesopotamian]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@Mesopotamian

Hey! No nationalizing! It’s not a western culture or concept at all. 

I am pretty sure it  dating is a Western concept.

My grandfather, my father, and my married brother did not date, and me, I watched hundreds of western movies when I was a teenager, but couldn't figure out precisely what dating is, until I met up personally with people from the west, saw this in my own eyes happening, this is when I learned what's dating is all about.

 

[Terell Kirby]

Masculine and feminine attraction principles transcend differing cultures.

But you are right, secular societies provide a better platform for casual dating and sex compared to fundamentalist societies.

[Lyubov]

“Pick up “ is based on the idea of casual sex IE outside of marriage or societal structure. It isn’t really something that has been enjoyed throughout humankind until recently. I’m not an anthropologist but I’m pretty sure the only people in society back in the day that had multiple sex partners were kings and the rich. They had sex slaves and concubines. Today most people in society will have slept with 10+ people by the time they are in their 20s. Don’t think that was the case back in the day and it won’t be in fundamentalist countries. It’s one of the reason Middle East dudes have the stereotype for being some of the most thirsty in social media or when they meet a western chick.

[Nahm]

15 minutes ago, Mesopotamian said:

I am pretty sure it  dating is a Western concept.

My grandfather, my father, and my married brother did not date, and me, I watched hundreds of western movies when I was a teenager, but couldn't figure out precisely what dating is, until I met up personally with people from the west, saw this in my own eyes happening, this is when I learned what's dating is all about.

 

I hear ya, but if you head right instead of left, I’m an Easterner. If I do the same, you’re in the Middle West. 

[Mesopotamian]

@Leo Gura I have so much trauma in my relationship with women that I just want to start crying if I think to write about that. I could write a book about how 90% of people I knew personally have fucked my psychology when it comes to this part of my life.  I've had tons of observations also, and yes I feel extremely lucky to have access to your videos and get to watch them as you get them out.

My latest attempt to get laid is to is to work on a long-term strategy to get laid cuz that I realized that I have to work on my seduction abilities, and for me it is a war-like situation, a game of the mind, it has very little to do with appearance, or how you carry yourself, confidence..etc cuz when talking about the things a women needs from a man, providing protection, food, shelter..etc, it seems like iterating  mainstream sort of ideas and conventional wisdom which in my opinion hardly works outside liberal societies because what happens in societies like mine (the rest of the world) is that you lose the openness of women that they do enjoy in liberal societies in many different ways, even though there's night life in some under-developped countries, it is not for everybody, but a very small strip of the society.

 

 

[Mesopotamian]

17 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I hear ya, but if you head right instead of left, I’m an Easterner. If I do the same, you’re in the Middle West. 

Lol, I am pretty sure these terms are irrelevant, so I am a westerner now right

[Nahm]

@Mesopotamian

 Welcome to the mess.

I’d have that cry and write that book if I were in your shoes.

[hyruga]

12 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

I am pretty sure it  dating is a Western concept.

My grandfather, my father, and my married brother did not date, and me, I watched hundreds of western movies when I was a teenager, but couldn't figure out precisely what dating is, until I met up personally with people from the west, saw this in my own eyes happening, this is when I learned what's dating is all about.

 

If you don't date, how are you going to build relationship with another person?

You mean to say in your country, everyone has arranged marriage without any dating at all?

[Mesopotamian]

3 hours ago, hyruga said:

If you don't date, how are you going to build relationship with another person?

You mean to say in your country, everyone has arranged marriage without any dating at all?

The concept of dating means a girl has a freedom to talk to whomever she wants, go out with whomever she wants. In countries like Iraq, the structure of society keeps an eye on a girl 24/7 she cannot go with whomever she wants, not even to drink a coffee in the middle of the day. 

Some will still try, they might have jobs and can steal an hour and go out, or maybe they are students, but in all cases they have to hide that from their families. 

And did I mention, singles are not allowed to rent homes, nor hotel rooms. 

In most iraqi societies, a man can only go out with a girl after they are officially engaged. Engagement comes prior to everything. You can't take a girl out for a coffee unless there is a session for the tribe where her mother, father, uncle brother.... Etc approve you as a future husband. 

Even engagement has a different meaning, it is not like you propose to a girl, but it is an approval process by the family and tribe upon formal request by your family to the girl's family. 

[Happy Lizard]

8 hours ago, Mesopotamian said:

The concept of dating means a girl has a freedom to talk to whomever she wants, go out with whomever she wants. In countries like Iraq, the structure of society keeps an eye on a girl 24/7 she cannot go with whomever she wants, not even to drink a coffee in the middle of the day. 

Some will still try, they might have jobs and can steal an hour and go out, or maybe they are students, but in all cases they have to hide that from their families. 

And did I mention, singles are not allowed to rent homes, nor hotel rooms. 

In most iraqi societies, a man can only go out with a girl after they are officially engaged. Engagement comes prior to everything. You can't take a girl out for a coffee unless there is a session for the tribe where her mother, father, uncle brother.... Etc approve you as a future husband. 

Even engagement has a different meaning, it is not like you propose to a girl, but it is an approval process by the family and tribe upon formal request by your family to the girl's family. 

see, tribe, Honor codes, family as the chief of one's freedom is all stage purple, red, blue values respectively. 

dating doesn't come until atheist orange emerges and challenges blue, building a society with values such as  1.individual freedom 2. individual's independence from family. 

the whole society has to go through this change to embrace those values. and that comes only when everybody start distrusting stage blue and thinking for themselves. How many atheist orange do you know ?
 

... and then dating becomes the norm, because how else would you find a partner if you don't have a family to arrange a marriage for you? if your values as such that you are in charge of your choices and won't let anyone infringe upon them ? 

it's a whole societal shift. not a western concept. 
 

[Nahm]

@Mesopotamian

If you asked your parents about engagement with a girl who is likable enough that they would approve, but they don’t approve, what reasons would they give?

[Mesopotamian]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Mesopotamian

If you asked your parents about engagement with a girl who is likable enough that they would approve, but they don’t approve, what reasons would they give?

FIY, when you are 12 years old, you are segregated after finishing elementary school. You loose your female friends, the few of them who at one point in time liked you, you don't see them anymore forever sometimes, then at the secondary school, your hormones kicks in, and you become crazy, cause there's no way to meet a girl, not a girl you like, but any girl at all. You're doomed if you're socially without skills. Love is a forbidden word, liking someone becomes forbidden to you.

One time I summoned the courage and told my dad that I like someone, he kept silent, we drove for a while, then he uttered "you are too young for this thing". I've been driven crazy at some point in my life. The morality was a big wall against me, and my lack of social skills back then didn't help.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Mesopotamian
correcting the age

[Mesopotamian]

2 hours ago, Happy Lizard said:

it's a whole societal shift. not a western concept. 
 

It is precisely how you described it, but probably saying so because I've been fed through media the things that I've been fed.

How do you know about the process that you've described? I mean it is Spiral Dynamics, but where can I find what you've mentioned? These concept can help me with inspiring the change where I live.

[Happy Lizard]

@Mesopotamian Spiral Dynamics at the core is a model to pin point the level of society/individual consciousness by assessing their values as a whole. Usually it goes as I mentioned in most societies. 

Here's great video about  an SD development study of a country in the Middle East: Egypt. I think you'll find it informative :

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Happy Lizard

[Mesopotamian]

@Happy Lizard

Thank you for sharing it. I am hoping I'll get good value with live example that's close to my living circumstance

[Nahm]

On 11/13/2021 at 1:20 PM, Mesopotamian said:

"you are too young for this thing".

Did you talk deeper about that, ask any questions etc?  In what way are you too young (to him)… what is the ‘right’ age or maturity… etc? 

[Mesopotamian]

14 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Did you talk deeper about that, ask any questions etc?  In what way are you too young (to him)… what is the ‘right’ age or maturity… etc? 

Looking back to that, I think that he might have absolutely no idea that love and marriage are separate things. He was thirty, his family ran into my mother's family by chance, two visit exchanged between the families, and someone, probably his father or his mother said to him let's ask for my mom's hand, and then their love story began, then marriage, then having children. So he might not known other path at all. He sure never spoken or gave validity to other methods, I've never heard him say "lover" for example