Something I've noticed on the forum

[8Ball]

One thing I've noticed amongst forum members is that whenever Leo talks about a newly discovered insight, instantly everyone here becomes an expert.

For instance: Before Leo's 5-meo-dmt trip and the experience of absolute infinity, there was basically zero mention of absolute infinity on the forum. But then he released a video about it and shortly after the members here are experts in the field.

A few years later, the topic of love came to be. And just like before, people act like they understand what Leo is really talking about.

Anyone else noticed this? What gives? I'm not trying to undermine your journey but what percentage of people here truly understand Leo's teachings? I can honestly say that I want to understand it all, but really I fucking don't because I haven't had any direct experience other than the usual logical and intellectual reasoning which really isn't enough, I know.

[Terell Kirby]

7 minutes ago, 8Ball said:

I'm not trying to undermine your journey but 

Seems like there is some undermining going on.

Answer is you'll never really know.

Instead of judging others, the best thing to do is to test Leo's insights in your own life to see if they work for you or not. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[Fearless_Bum]

@8Ball very good that you noticed. 

See, the ego is constantly absorbing knowledge and is obsessed with it because it gives it power.

The ego loves power, and knowledge is power ?. So if I have realized infinity or am conscious of myself as God and you aren't, then i have more power than you. 

It's the same thing church pastors do and gurus too, they love dressing up as the one who knows and preaching. 

The spiritual ego is so sneaky. 

It's a silly game, notice Leo mentions something and everyone just blindly repeats and has the audacity to pretend they came to those conclusions on their own lol. 

[snowyowl]

This is human nature, how groups of people bond together in a tribe. When I used to belong to a church, everyone started talking in (approximately) the same way. Then I left and joined a Buddhist group and guess what, the group-think set in when we all started quoting the same ideas, Zen stories etc. Even Krishnamurti forums have people who try to ape his style of language. 

We could frame it as a leader/follower mentality, which is a bit uncomfortable, well then the answer is for us to get our own original insights and express them individually. But that takes more work and it's easier to get lazy and follow the herd! 

[Flyboy]

Also, with ANY spiritual teacher, followers absolutely love to talk about the stuff the teacher says with slight variations in wording or language to make it sound like they both understand and are at/near the same level.  

There are plenty of these people on this forum, many in denial about it.  I occasionally do this myself, though I at least try to be honest about when my understanding is "intellectual" vs experiential.  Fortunately, there's also some really great authentic and realized people here, so you just need to apply some wisdom in who you listen to.

[Fearless_Bum]

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

Also, with ANY spiritual teacher, followers absolutely love to talk about the stuff the teacher says with slight variations in wording or language to make it sound like they both understand and are at/near the same level.  

There are plenty of these people on this forum, many in denial about it.  I occasionally do this myself, though I at least try to be honest about when my understanding is "intellectual" vs experiential.  Fortunately, there's also some really great authentic and realized people here, so you just need to apply some wisdom in who you listen to.

@Flyboy there's actually a wisdom in this, that in the realm of language, there actually is no originality. 

So all of us are actually copying each other and it's inevitable. 

You really don't know who's bullshitting and who isn't ultimately. 

Although when people identify as God on here and say that if you don't say you're God you aren't enlightened then lol. 

[4201]

2 hours ago, 8Ball said:

One thing I've noticed amongst forum members is that whenever Leo talks about a newly discovered insight, instantly everyone here becomes an expert.

For instance: Before Leo's 5-meo-dmt trip and the experience of absolute infinity, there was basically zero mention of absolute infinity on the forum. But then he released a video about it and shortly after the members here are experts in the field.

A few years later, the topic of love came to be. And just like before, people act like they understand what Leo is really talking about.

Anyone else noticed this? What gives? I'm not trying to undermine your journey but what percentage of people here truly understand Leo's teachings? I can honestly say that I want to understand it all, but really I fucking don't because I haven't had any direct experience other than the usual logical and intellectual reasoning which really isn't enough, I know.

Absolute infinity and love aren't "different fields" they are the exact same thing just mentionned with different words.

You = Conciousness =  "The Absolute" = Infinity = Love = All = Nothing = Something = One = Many = God = Enlightenment

If Leo wants to talk about it with new words, people will ask questions with those new words. The people who are experienced with enlightenment or whatever you want to call it won't be thrown off because of a simple change of words. What enlightenment is about is always the same, regardless of how it is presented.

Do the people who talk about enlightenment actually know what they are talking about? You simply can't verify or validate their claims without going through the work yourself. Does it bother you that people who might not know what they are talking about still talk about stuff? If so you might find value in contemplating why.

In any case I fully encourage you to do what you were set on to do : directly experience enlightenment through practice. But notice how having judgements toward people who talk without doing is a distraction from doing. Your distaste of those people doesn't actually help you nor changes them.

[kamwalker]

OP has a point because it's actually a detriment to other people who are learning. Be honest about where you are really at. Otherwise people who read all these posts end up frustrated and confused as to why everyone else seems to be comprehending these topics so easily (when in actuality they don't). If there is any doubt in you about what you're about to post then please don't give off the impression that these are things you have fully realized. And if there's a sense you're only saying it because you want to sound like one of the people who "gets it" then you should ask yourself if that's the case before hitting that submit button. 

[Tyler Durden]

If reality is non-dual, that means Leo and forum members are connected, they are all One. So no wonder they are using the similar terminology.

[BipolarGrowth]

When a teacher stresses something and you learn it, you can connect it to many things in your life. A lot of people have been on this spiritual journey way longer than they’ve known Leo. They were at similar or even more advanced points than him in some areas and at some times. When he teaches something well, which he certainly does, it brings it into our consideration more whether we’ve had that specific type of insight/awakening or not. It’s going to ripple out to change the forum culture a lot, but of course many people are not going to understand most facets as well as him. They still can talk about them, and it’s pretty normal to overestimate ourselves in this area at some point. 

[Inliytened1]

@8Ball first off..Leo is a pioneer..that's what he does full time while most of us have normal jobs...I probably wouldn't even have discovered true spirituality if I didn't one day stumble on one of his videos on addiction which ultimately led me to the metaphysical material.    Of course at the deepest level Leo is a figment of your own imagination as God as are all beings- (including yourself) but that comes much later.

That said..if one actually does the practices and keeps an open mind..without bias towards anything. (And realize that this is not about Leo) .they can actually discover Truth for themselves. .they can actually directly verify the various facets of awakening that are taught on this channel.  To your specific comment on infinity, for example  i myself, via meditation, have become directly conscious that reality is Absolute Infinity.  Meaning it's One which is the same as Unlimited -which = Consciousness  It was shocking and one hell of a realization/awakening.  That was long before I joined the forum, which came much later.

You gotta remember too that Leo read hundreds of books and spent thousands of hours pioneering and trying to wrap his mind around reality.  He was an atheist like many of us, and, yes, a materialist like many of us.  Everyone has to start somewhere and we all are products of our culture.

Anyway, all of that said there are people on the forum that aren't serious about the work - or, they take stuff on as belief without doing the work.   This stuff is going to happen and there isn't much we can do about it other than to tell people about the dangers of doing this.   Most of his followers are younger and honestly are more at the age where they should be doing personal development and ego development rather than deconstructing the ego and spirituality but that's a topic for another day.

[Loba]

@8Ball I think a lot of the people here know what's up because they did the same psychedelics after he did, and had the same insights.  That's why so many people all say the same thing.  Also, when you suggest how it is going to go, it is more likely to go that way so if a teacher is giving examples, then they are guiding that consciousness towards similar ways of thinking.

I still get the feeling that people here are individuals.  I've actually seen it when people parrot things to a really bad degree and it is not so terrible of an echo chamber here.  Like... shamanic and occult groups can be full of a lot of people that are full of it.  But here, where people are not toying with ideas as much, and are collectively using substances to lessen the ego, this place has less of a chance to get that bad.

Although there is a collective ego here for sure, I don't think that a simple public community like this can get rid of it completely because everyone is at different stages in life.  I would suggest this:  go onto Facebook and join some occult  groups and shamanic groups and see how those people interact and notice the difference between here and there.  You can't even speak your mind on something like this in some of those places.

The best we can do here is to be aware of it and do our best individually.

[Galyna]

I have noticed that the forum is evolving. When we started in 2016, the topics were far less advanced. 

[Galyna]

Seems like everyone here is an expert about God consciousness, I think it is Bc my consciousness evolves, therefore this forum evolves, since I make it this way as the only thing in existence… ?

[Nos7algiK]

"As within, so without". The collective consciousness evolves with itself. There is no "other" to be more evolved than the "I". Reality is a direct reflection/projection of this "I". It is an ever self-referencing system that uses itself to evolve itself. The you that is the "I" and the other, Leo, could not be "insert anything here" unless you were already that thing or was aware of that thing.

Once this is recognized, we no longer see other as that which is more advanced or has knowledge to be obtained from. Because we realize that it is the I that planted the seed of knowledge in the perception of other. If we are the I, the seed planter, and the seed itself this must mean the source in which we perceive is radiating from ourselves or is One unification. The I is not just that in which we perceive, but the I is always more evolved that what we perceive for if it was not the I would not be able to seed reality in a way we would be able to recognize it for our further evolution.

Simply put, once you become aware of something (specially something that truly resonates with you) you will see it reflected back to you over and over again in reality itself. It does not matter if others are truly aware of what Leo is saying or if they are just parroting it. The recognition of it is what perpetuates the evolution of consciousness. Evolution here does not imply greater either, it just implies perceived change in beliefs we have due to the impermanent nature of reality.

This projection/reflection is also a "trap" or should I say there is no ground you can or will ever find with your beliefs no matter how grand you may think they are now. Because of this the "I" searches and searches for better experiences failing to realize one of the most fundamental aspects of reality is a constant state of delusion on us.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[Leo Gura]

Well, many people here have actually taken 5-MeO-DMT since I talked about it, and they have directly experienced Infinity.

Of course others are bullshitting or just conceptualizing.

Obviously after I talk about a new topic it will become hot for a while. How could it be otherwise? The first step is for folks to just become conceptually familiar with the topic. This alone can take months. You can't just go from hearing about Infinity for the first time to experiencing Infinity within a week. There is a lot of conceptual understanding that needs to take place.

[SOUL]

This perspective I will be sharing is a challenging one and it isn't the first time I have shared it here, albeit not as extensively, and many other places as well. It isn't exclusive to this forum or this topic, in fact, it would be very unusual and a rarity to not experience it in life.

There is a significant amount of priming that goes on in spirituality, well, in everything. We repeatedly get exposed to things like concepts and understandings that form paradigms in the mind. Books read, videos viewed, seminars attended and even in conversations with people all around us.

You might see this as a positive thing to learn from others who have already experienced so gain insights and wisdom instead of wander aimlessly in a maze. Undoubtedly, many benefit from this and find significant progress from the sharing that comes from others.

The issue that arises with this type of work is that we are exploring something that is formless so the concepts and understandings are merely stories that we project into the formless and not something that are innately there...because it's formless. Few realize this and fewer want to accept it.

So even though these stories can help the only 'truth' that they represent is the significance that we give to them. These stories being handed down from generation to generation that even Leo was primed with and then goes on to influence others with are just a map....not the territory, which is formless.

Sure, as we evolve the stories evolve with us and the current state of detail and complexity that is shared will eventually become antiquated even if they continue to provide guidance to others in the future. Although, as intricate as they are and become they are still just stories about something formless.

I'm not a gamer but I understand human nature, when a new game comes out and the secrets about it get discovered, the loot boxes, the hacks and cheat codes, the tricks and tips that open new stuff and levels the players gets excited about it and they are obsessed with it all.

These things that might have been benefits may also turn out to be detriments and what was once viewed as helpful may turn out to be hindrances. The stories that were intended to be guidance can often become distractions and stumbling blocks.

Quite often what happens is that people become attached to the stories, they identify with the stories and they spend much time on the stories. They will discuss and compare stories with others in contention about the right and wrong or true and false of them.

Even in reading this there will be some who agree or disagree with me even to the point they are compelled to chime in about it. Let me be clear, our liberation isn't dependent on our stories, in fact, the stories may inhibit liberation if we allow them to.

Even more ludicrous would be to allow other's fascination with their stories to distract oneself from liberation let alone one's own fascination with our own stories to distract. Liberation includes freedom from the stories, the attachment to them and the self suffering that attachment creates.

Wanting to understand someone's teachings is just wanting to understand their story and it's wanting to make it your own story. Seek liberation so your own story will unfold naturally and then ultimately we transcend the stories since.... our being is formless.

[Carl-Richard]

There is a middle ground where people may not have experienced 5-MeO-DMT but have had other non-dual experiences where pointers like "Love" or "Infinity" or "God" are already compatible in their own way or at least make intuitive sense. Many non-dual teachers use these terms anyway.

[Loba]

@SOUL This makes so much sense.  It makes me grateful I had spontaneous awakenings before finding out about spirituality because it imprinted a pathway to get there without needing too much help from teachers.

[Preety_India]

I don't think it is so cut and dry or black and white so to speak. 

A lot of learning can happen through shared ideas. And when one person or expert speaks about a particular insight, I think people try to gain something from it for themselves and offer their own insights in return. I think this is a phenomenon where our brain gets fired to rewire again. So it's like a spontaneous transmission of information where you immediately pick on something new and there is always a part of your brain that has some relative insights about that concept, it's just that it never clicked earlier. 

And I believe in synchronicity where many people can come with similar concepts, insights and ideas at once or during a particular period. 

Either way, I don't see any harm in people coming up with their own perspectives on a new concept, no matter how half baked they might appear.