Feeling The Need To Be Understood

[sausagehead]

I can't explain it but when it comes to learning how to be more smooth or successful with women, I feel this desire to explain myself. There's a part of me that wants to tell woman that I had to learn how to be likable and someone that they would sleep with. It's like I want them to reassure to me that learning game involves learning stuff that's kinda arbitrary and that I'm lovable either way. I think I have an unconscious fear of being unlovable and the process of learning how to be successful with women by learning techniques and all these steps seems to reinforce that I'm unlovable. I never really think, oh sweet I can learn game and have more abundance and better relationships. I think more along the lines of, "why do I gotta learn this stuff... why am I so creepy that I have to learn how to properly touch a girl the right way to escalate smoothly... why does a girl just expect me to somehow know how to say and do 100 different things right, and if i dont I get no love from them". I don't have a problem with learning this stuff, I just almost wish girls could tell me it's normal to have to learn and that it's ok to screw up sometimes lol. Otherwise I feel unlovable at the start of my pickup journey and then if i get good, I can see myself developing an ego because I proved I'm lovable now.  If I got into a relationship with a really attractive girl I would deep down want to tell her (i wouldn't actually do this) that I had to learn game in order for her like me and sleep with me and then hope that she reassures me that that's a normal thing to do and that I didn't do anything wrong (so cringe lol).

Is this all just a fear of being lovable? Also is any of this normal as a guy trying to improve his dating life and options with women? Would higher self esteem just fix all this

Edited November 11, 2021 by sausagehead

[kamwalker]

I think the weird thing is for someone to think they already know everything and don't need to learn. So don't feel bad about not knowing. None of us really understand anything until we work at it. Lots of dudes think they already have it figured out and end up being creepy or only attract girls with low self-esteem. 

[Chew211]

You'll get over the need with time most likely. No one really cares about your past, and so won't hold it against you. However if you bring up the past that means it's an issue at present. Perhaps you're looking for some sort of third party validation for pick up. Which of course, you don't need. You don't need forgiveness. Even if you actually get it, it won't be it. It might feel good for a woman to tell you it's normal, but nothing changes. 

Also,

Saying "if I hadn't struggled we wouldn't be together" is like saying "if I wasn't born, I wouldn't have met you." 

[Leo Gura]

Huge mistake. Girls will never understand why guys learn game and they will give you zero points for it and they will find it repulsive.

They just expect you to have masterful game.

Don't talk about game with girls. Just do it and enjoy the benefits. Don't try to explain anything to her. She does not give a fuck about your inability to get laid. And she will not fuck you out of empathy.

And in general, stop interacting with girls on a serious level. You are way too serious here, trying to push your problems on the girl. Don't burden her with your personal struggles. She does not care and she will not help you.

[mememe]

6 hours ago, sausagehead said:

I can't explain it but when it comes to learning how to be more smooth or successful with women, I feel this desire to explain myself. There's a part of me that wants to tell woman that I had to learn how to be likable and someone that they would sleep with. It's like I want them to reassure to me that learning game involves learning stuff that's kinda arbitrary and that I'm lovable either way. I think I have an unconscious fear of being unlovable and the process of learning how to be successful with women by learning techniques and all these steps seems to reinforce that I'm unlovable. I never really think, oh sweet I can learn game and have more abundance and better relationships. I think more along the lines of, "why do I gotta learn this stuff... why am I so creepy that I have to learn how to properly touch a girl the right way to escalate smoothly... why does a girl just expect me to somehow know how to say and do 100 different things right, and if i dont I get no love from them". I don't have a problem with learning this stuff, I just almost wish girls could tell me it's normal to have to learn and that it's ok to screw up sometimes lol. Otherwise I feel unlovable at the start of my pickup journey and then if i get good, I can see myself developing an ego because I proved I'm lovable now.  If I got into a relationship with a really attractive girl I would deep down want to tell her (i wouldn't actually do this) that I had to learn game in order for her like me and sleep with me and then hope that she reassures me that that's a normal thing to do and that I didn't do anything wrong (so cringe lol).

Is this all just a fear of being lovable? Also is any of this normal as a guy trying to improve his dating life and options with women? Would higher self esteem just fix all this

because in a perfect setting it would work like this: you both make experiences learn how to body talk and socially interact and from the moment you meet you learn and experiment together. why should you never talk about it? it might seem like a no go but if you never talk about functional aspects of life or even during sex how will you ever make it work longterm? did you ever see a movie where they probably did not talk about functional aspects? maybe solo nature documentaries, but that’s about it.

if i were you i would just only talk about it with friends or with more longterm relationships. it’s not about that you learn it, it’s about why - if it’s just for yourself getting layed or laying as many women as possible, forget it, doesn’t matter if you talk about it or not, you can choose how you blow it. it is about making sth work out in a nice way even if its nothing to talk about.

you have this one goal now but make yourself befriend with the idea of life long learning, within relationships this does not stop, especially because there will be psychological stuff. what makes you lovable is not „game“ but quite the opposite.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Whitesnow said:

@Leo Gura

 

No, that is not correct.

Game is way more important than anything else.

Quote

btw can you give me some  advice for cold approaching as woman? Is it even advisable?i feel so ashamed to ask my friends because all of them are very pretty and get approached by men all the time but no one ever appraoches me.would you recommend i stop hanging out with my beautiful 10/10 friends? They are very nice and kind but i always feel horrible when i hang out with them and see how many men are interested in them,but no one even glances at me. Would you recommend a very ugly(this is not low selfesteem,i know because no man has ever asked me out)35+ year old woman who is balding slightly give up on the dating scene and focus on finding satisfaction elsewhere?i would really apprectiate any advice.there is a lot of advice for lowvalue unwanted men.but i cant find any advice for below average ,unwanted women

I would rather not give advice to women on this because it would not be based on my direct experience.

The truth is I don't know what it's like from an unattractive woman's POV.

[Nahm]

11 hours ago, sausagehead said:

I can't explain it but when it comes to learning how to be more smooth or successful with women, I feel this desire to explain myself. There's a part of me that wants to tell woman that I had to learn how to be likable and someone that they would sleep with. It's like I want them to reassure to me that learning game involves learning stuff that's kinda arbitrary and that I'm lovable either way. I think I have an unconscious fear of being unlovable and the process of learning how to be successful with women by learning techniques and all these steps seems to reinforce that I'm unlovable. I never really think, oh sweet I can learn game and have more abundance and better relationships. I think more along the lines of, "why do I gotta learn this stuff... why am I so creepy that I have to learn how to properly touch a girl the right way to escalate smoothly... why does a girl just expect me to somehow know how to say and do 100 different things right, and if i dont I get no love from them". I don't have a problem with learning this stuff, I just almost wish girls could tell me it's normal to have to learn and that it's ok to screw up sometimes lol. Otherwise I feel unlovable at the start of my pickup journey and then if i get good, I can see myself developing an ego because I proved I'm lovable now.  If I got into a relationship with a really attractive girl I would deep down want to tell her (i wouldn't actually do this) that I had to learn game in order for her like me and sleep with me and then hope that she reassures me that that's a normal thing to do and that I didn't do anything wrong (so cringe lol).

Is this all just a fear of being lovable? Also is any of this normal as a guy trying to improve his dating life and options with women? Would higher self esteem just fix all this

In the sense it is not resonating with you, no it is not ‘normal’, and emotion tells you so. It’s trying to be someone or someway you’re not, which of course is creating a false discordant self image, a facade, to essentially trick her to acquire sex, which of course sets the stage of a potential relationship (which is what you really want) from a foundation of deception, typically followed by a rollercoaster of trust issues. 

Does the thought ‘a fear of being lovable’ really, actually, make any sense to you? I suggest you are presently, already loved, and emotion tells you so. Maybe you’re in tune with your conscience, do not desire to trick anyone just to get yourself laid, and naturally want to come clean on the deception, for the sake of starting a relationship in honesty. Self esteem is not needed to ‘fix’ this, simply listening to how you feel and understanding emotions (fear) is more than ample. Self esteem is like the helium in a balloon, without discord held upon it, it naturally arises. Like how a cork, once let go, naturally floats. 

I would make a dreamboard and fill it with everything you want to experience in life, and utilize and understand the emotional scale. This clears out misunderstandings of emotion, and self referential beliefs along with it, and also gives you plenty of high vibration so to speak, and thus plenty of things to naturally talk about on dates and in relationships. 

‘Feeling the need to be understood’… ‘I need to be understood’ is a thought. Not a feeling. The thought feels discordant because you don’t need to be understood. Meaning arises within each of us. No one actually ever understands an other. I suspect what you actually desire is to understand yourself so to speak, as in, understanding you are receiving emotional guidance in regard to discordant & aligned thoughts, in regard to what you actually want. 

[Bando]

8 hours ago, Whitesnow said:

   btw can you give me some  advice for cold approaching as woman? Is it even advisable?i feel so ashamed to ask my friends because all of them are very pretty and get approached by men all the time but no one ever appraoches me.would you recommend i stop hanging out with my beautiful 10/10 friends? They are very nice and kind but i always feel horrible when i hang out with them and see how many men are interested in them,but no one even glances at me. Would you recommend a very ugly(this is not low selfesteem,i know because no man has ever asked me out)35+ year old woman who is balding slightly give up on the dating scene and focus on finding satisfaction elsewhere?i would really apprectiate any advice.there is a lot of advice for lowvalue unwanted men.but i cant find any advice for below average ,unwanted women

Yea ive never really considered what dating is like from your point of view I know that you can get sex if you want to but that's really not you want you want some type of commitment from a man that can love you and fulfill your needs.

I don't know if this was you but im pretty sure you said you were a lawyer clearing over 100k a year would you be willing to settle for an average to below average guy that accept you the way you were? Have you considered plastic surgery to help alter your appearance? Would you be willing to move locations? What does your ideal guy look like? How many new men are you meeting each month? Are you satisfied with your social life in general? Theres a lot of stuff to unpact

[diamondpenguin]

@Leo Gura @Nahm @Bando @Chew211 @sausagehead  All of game boils down to one thing guys: "Emotions"

Attracting women is about the emotions

 

[Intense]

@Leo Gura  According to your video, even if you are a high value man, women only get attracted to you 10% of the time? Can you please elaborate on this mechanic, I thought the better your game and status got, the more women will be attracted to you, 10% seems really low. So let's say I would become the ultimate man,  only 10% of women would be attracted to me? makes no sense.

[Nahm]

@diamondpenguin

Yes I agree. But not just in regard to woman, in regard to everything desired.  That ‘one thing’ is simply - not suppressing emotions. Listening instead. Via conjecture, there are now ‘two things’, with the second being not listening to someone else who is doing so and being convinced by them to do the same thing. 

[Karmadhi]

@Whitesnow Using statistics is silly for this. Looks are more of a threshhold thing than anything else. It does not matter how attractie you are once you reach that threashhold. So if a girl sees me as a 5/10 i can get her, if she sees me as a 9/10 i can get her. If she sees me as a 3/10 then i cannot get her. Simple as that. Girls have different types so if you talk to a lot some of them will see you as a 5/10 or higher. What is interesting is that the attractivness of the girl does not affect how she sees you. So if you are a normal looking guy, a hot girl can find you more handsome than an ugly girl. All can happen. Personally i would say 2/3 of the girls that have been into me were above average looking according to most of society standards. Some were legit more attractive than my physically. I still messed up those chances cuz my game totally sucked.

Unless you look like a legit model looks will help you but you will need some level of game.

Rule of thumb: The better looking you are, the less game you need. HOWEVER some game is ALWAYS needed. You cannot escape learning it. Just if you look nice you will need a lesser level of game. So a 8/10 will need okay game to do just as well as a 5/10 with great game. However the 5/10 can reach or even surpass the 8/10 if he works on his game.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Intense said:

@Leo Gura  According to your video, even if you are a high value man, women only get attracted to you 10% of the time? Can you please elaborate on this mechanic, I thought the better your game and status got, the more women will be attracted to you, 10% seems really low. So let's say I would become the ultimate man,  only 10% of women would be attracted to me? makes no sense.

It's just a rough estimate. Maybe you can increase it to 20% or 30%.

What you're not realizing is that 10% is a lot and more than enough.

[Intense]

@Leo Gura  Of course 10 percent would be enough when playing the numbers game, I just assumed that the variety of men that women are attracted in was not so high. I assumed that all women judged every individual man in more of less the same way and that the individual preference of women was more of side calculation for her. I just realized that was a very dumb assumption to make.

[Ineedanswers]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Game is way more important than anything else.

This doesn’t coincide with my experience of reality leo.especially considering the fact that the person asking the question is a lady.maybe for men game is more important(but I disagree ever here).i certainly think game/good social skills help but I still think being physically attractive to your partner is very important.wdyta this cartoon and song video.as exemplified in the video,although very rare,I do think it’s possible to fall under the looks threshold enough where game will not be of much service to you.

Btw is it possible to create pure raw physical attraction through game?to the point where a women craves you? Have you ever?

Edited November 12, 2021 by Ineedanswers

[sausagehead]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Huge mistake. Girls will never understand why guys learn game and they will give you zero points for it and they will find it repulsive.

They just expect you to have masterful game.

Don't talk about game with girls. Just do it and enjoy the benefits. Don't try to explain anything to her. She does not give a fuck about your inability to get laid. And she will not fuck you out of empathy.

And in general, stop interacting with girls on a serious level. You are way too serious here, trying to push your problems on the girl. Don't burden her with your personal struggles. She does not care and she will not help you.

This is what I needed to hear but didn't want to lol. Oh well, tbh I'm not much better/different, I kinda just want girls to look a certain way and wouldn't date or sleep with them just because they have it harder from being overweight or whatever. I just have compassion for them especially when it's something they can't help. What I come to realize in dating is that both men and women both have their struggles and neither side can get proper empathy from the other gender because their realities are too different for the most part

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

This doesn’t coincide with my experience of reality leo

Well, maybe that's cause you don't got serious game.

Of course I am talking about MEN. For women my game advice does not apply. I am not here teaching game to women.

[diamondpenguin]

@Nahm So you're  saying: Listen to your emotions and don't get swayed by the ulterior motives of others?

[Nahm]

@diamondpenguin

OMG yes. 

[Bando]

23 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Whitesnow Using statistics is silly for this. Looks are more of a threshhold thing than anything else. It does not matter how attractie you are once you reach that threashhold. So if a girl sees me as a 5/10 i can get her, if she sees me as a 9/10 i can get her. If she sees me as a 3/10 then i cannot get her. Simple as that. Girls have different types so if you talk to a lot some of them will see you as a 5/10 or higher. What is interesting is that the attractivness of the girl does not affect how she sees you. So if you are a normal looking guy, a hot girl can find you more handsome than an ugly girl. All can happen. Personally i would say 2/3 of the girls that have been into me were above average looking according to most of society standards. Some were legit more attractive than my physically. I still messed up those chances cuz my game totally sucked.

Unless you look like a legit model looks will help you but you will need some level of game.

Rule of thumb: The better looking you are, the less game you need. HOWEVER some game is ALWAYS needed. You cannot escape learning it. Just if you look nice you will need a lesser level of game. So a 8/10 will need okay game to do just as well as a 5/10 with great game. However the 5/10 can reach or even surpass the 8/10 if he works on his game.

@Whitesnow is a Woman, cold approaching guys as a chick does not help. Her issue was that she is not being approached by men and she wants to be the purseurer but in unsure how to go about it.