There is Not Nothing

[VeganAwake]

It's more than just distinctions or conditioning though, it's an embodied experience.

Kind of like if you thought you found a 10,000 carat diamond, and was now wealthy beyond imagination and the owner of the biggest diamond on the planet....

Only then to find out it wasn't a real diamond, it was just a giant cubic zirconia which was essentially worthless.

It's a real and simultaneously unreal experience. The exciting experience of finding the planet's largest diamond was still real but under a false assumption that it held life changing value.

[diamondpenguin]

@Leo Gura How is speech nothing if I can hear its auditory signals?

[diamondpenguin]

@nuwu are you ok, you sound kinda depressed.

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

There is apparent separation between objects like the body, a cat, a dog, a rock a tree, a fence.

It's the sense of self or individuality within the body which is the completely unreal part. The "I am" is not a real entity.

No real individual = No real separation

❤ 

^^ This

@WokeBloke Separation is the experiencer, the reality of which is completely illusory. Psst! It's the connection between what is already not separate -- when that is seen, it's beyond mind-blowing, and hilariously unexpected. 

Nothing is everything, there's no time or space or object or subject or other or self, and there's no history -- only unknowable unboundedness.

[snowyowl]

14 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Nothing is everything, there's no time or space or object or subject or other or self, and there's no history -- only unknowable unboundedness.

Nothing is a kind of paradoxical word, as it's a concept pointing away from concepts. A word pointing away from everything, and therefore bizarrely pointing towards everything at the same time. 

Not sure what you mean by unknowable though, perhaps you mean unknowable conceptually. But just sitting here in my room I know it, by being it. (Although ofc the 'I' word is a redundant appendage of the grammar). 

Edited November 11, 2021 by snowyowl

[snowyowl]

@nuwu  yes, I think all these words were created to use in everyday relative life rather than describing the absolute. I can say, 'there's nothing in my pocket' and that makes sense in a conventional way, but in an absolute sense it's nonsense. 

[Raptorsin7]

@VeganAwake @The0Self But what do we do if we still have the felt sense of being a body. 

I feel the tension in the head, my hands etc. 

Do you two not experience the felt sense of a body anymore?

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@VeganAwake @The0Self But what do we do if we still have the felt sense of being a body. 

I feel the tension in the head, my hands etc. 

Do you two not experience the felt sense of a body anymore?

What's being said is there already isn't a you that could do anything about it.

The body may or may not decide to get a prescription for a muscle relaxer & weekly scheduled massage therapy, and or adjust its posture with a chiropractor.

There can be pain or pleasure in the body but it doesn't belong to anyone, it's what's happening, there isn't anyone actually experiencing it.

❤ 

[The0Self]

20 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@VeganAwake @The0Self But what do we do if we still have the felt sense of being a body. 

I feel the tension in the head, my hands etc. 

Do you two not experience the felt sense of a body anymore?

I can feel my feet on the ground, the air on my skin, etc. But it's not owned, nor is it fixedly me or not-me, it's just what appears, and all sensations are on the same level -- my hands are, in a sense, no closer to me than the sky because there isn't a me; there's no separation.

[silene]

Where I struggle with the no-self discussion is that no-self comes as a pair with self. There's a distinction being made between self and not-self.  So doesn't self need to exist for us to say there is not-self? At least I need to  know what self is like, in order to know that this experience isn't self. 

[WokeBloke]

50 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I can feel my feet on the ground, the air on my skin, etc. But it's not owned, nor is it fixedly me or not-me, it's just what appears, and all sensations are on the same level -- my hands are, in a sense, no closer to me than the sky because there isn't a me; there's no separation.

You claim that its your feet on the ground and also that there is no owner. Then you say you have hands but also that there isn't a me that has hands. Looks like a bunch of contradictions to me. 

When will you take ownership of what you have created?

Edited November 12, 2021 by WokeBloke

[Galyna]

On 11/10/2021 at 2:54 PM, WokeBloke said:

This is a quote from Rupert Spira that I just want to expand on.

 

If there was truly nothing then we wouldn't be able to say it because there would be nothing to say it and nothing to speak about.

 

This is why I suggest that reality is not nothing.

It is ONE-Thing that has differentiated itself into everything.

 

There is only One-thing or one existence and you are that.

 

The nature of this one-thing is deeply mysterious however it knows that it is hence why it says I am.

 

 

What if you couldn’t speak human language? What would you be left with? 

[Shin]

7 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

You claim that its your feet on the ground and also that there is no owner. Then you say you have hands but also that there isn't a me that has hands. Looks like a bunch of contradictions to me. 

When will you take ownership of what you have created?

It will never make logical sense.

It's a paradox that you can only understand through direct experience.

[WokeBloke]

46 minutes ago, Galyna said:

What if you couldn’t speak human language? What would you be left with? 

I do that relatively often when I stop thinking. One can only know by stopping thinking.

[WokeBloke]

37 minutes ago, Shin said:

It will never make logical sense.

It's a paradox that you can only understand through direct experience.

My opinion is  I'm simply not taking ownership of my body as The0Self. The body belongs to me the one who is the body.

[The0Self]

11 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

You claim that its your feet on the ground and also that there is no owner. Then you say you have hands but also that there isn't a me that has hands. Looks like a bunch of contradictions to me. 

When will you take ownership of what you have created?

“My” is just an expression — obviously there are apparent distinctions; they’re not your feet, are they? ? Even so, nobody said it wasn’t a paradox. There’s no sense here of being someone typing on a phone. There’s just typing on a phone, which is unconditioned and all there is. And it’s not fulfilling in an experiential sense, it’s unimaginably fulfilled — beyond the point where there’d be some need for anything at all, including a creator. Hope that clears up any confusion, but there’s certainly nothing to understand.

[Someone here]

Nothing is not a black void somewhere.  Everything we are experiencing all the time is precisely nothing. 

[WokeBloke]

10 hours ago, The0Self said:

“My” is just an expression — obviously there are apparent distinctions; they’re not your feet, are they? ? Even so, nobody said it wasn’t a paradox. There’s no sense here of being someone typing on a phone. There’s just typing on a phone, which is unconditioned and all there is. And it’s not fulfilling in an experiential sense, it’s unimaginably fulfilled — beyond the point where there’d be some need for anything at all, including a creator. Hope that clears up any confusion, but there’s certainly nothing to understand.

Actually they are my feet.