Help creating a nootropic stack

[Insightful27]

I've been slowly getting into nootropics for a little while now. My question is when creating a stack, how do you make sure that the supplements your taking won't have unintended affects when mixed with each other? Also, how do I know how the stack will interact with other prescription drugs that I'm taking? Any help is appreciated!

[Adodd]

Following.

I wouldnt say AVOID lions mane. There's nothing wrong with it but the actual cognitive improvements for the average person just arent there. This is different than what most people will say but check out the actual studies done.

[Michael569]

14 hours ago, Insightful27 said:

how do you make sure that the supplements your taking won't have unintended affects when mixed with each other

self-experimentation. Nootropics are a new thing and there is little research on most of them so we don't know what happens when you mix stuff up. Try and see what happens. 

14 hours ago, Insightful27 said:

Also, how do I know how the stack will interact with other prescription drugs that I'm taking

Now this is something you need to be very careful with. A lot of natural products are contraindicated with pharmaceuticals. I think the most contraindications is with blood thinners, antidepressants, blood sugar and blood pressure meds. Antipsychotics, benzos and other mental health meds are also a concern. Rule of thumb: if unsure, don't use it. or go to drugs.com -> interaction checker and put all those things together. Although you are unlikely to find nootropics in their database but they do have many herbs and supplements. 

Another risk is that you will overload your liver because all that stuff goes through hepatic first pass and needs to be detoxified before those substances are redistributed. For example, even using something like high-dose curcumin extract while drinking a lot of herbal teas, taking some matcha and on the top of that 5 pharmaceuticals can already interact with medication to a degree that they (drugs) may start building up in the system. Some drugs such as digoxin can become incredibly toxic when this happens. Now what happens when you add 10 nootropics in the mix, nobody knows. 

Start with single products, small doses and build it up. Observe things like headaches, brain fog and digestive problems, if they appear you are going too fast. 

[The0Self]

I wouldn't use more than one at a time, but the ones I've actually seen positive effects from include L-theanine, pregnenolone, and glycine -- Tried many others a while back including bacopa and none really produced much of a change in relation to those three.

[Insightful27]

11 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Although you are unlikely to find nootropics in their database

Yeah I they didn't have any of the nootropics that I'm taking

11 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Rule of thumb: if unsure, don't use it

So I shouldn't use nootropics while on prescription drugs or antibiotics? Because there is no way to be sure until I try taking a nootropic with these drugs. 

[Michael569]

9 hours ago, Insightful27 said:

So I shouldn't use nootropics while on prescription drugs or antibiotics? Because there is no way to be sure until I try taking a nootropic with these drugs. 

I think when on antibiotics, you shouldn't be using anything (maybe except probiotics if your doctor agrees). Finish the AB treatment then experiment with the stash. 

[Consilience]

On 11/9/2021 at 5:35 PM, Adodd said:

I wouldnt say AVOID lions mane. There's nothing wrong with it but the actual cognitive improvements for the average person just arent there. This is different than what most people will say but check out the actual studies done.

I've had the opposite results. Lion's Mane gives me an extremely noticeable improvement throughout the day. I believe it's due to my meditation practice that I'm able to notice subtle differences in the mind. If you get a bad brand, sure, but from a reputable company Lion's Mane will show good improvements in focus and even is mildly stimulating. 

[Ry4n]

I would personally stick to the natural ones so avoid racetams they suck really bad. I would only look to modafinil if caffeine doesn't work for you. 

Some good natural ones that are consistent, safe, proven and reliable are:

L-theanine

L-tyrosine

Creatine

Caffeine

Choline sources such as Alpha GPC or Citicoline 

Bacopa and Rhodiola 

Ashwagandha 

Lion's mane for creativity 

[Yarco]

Nootropics are largely a wild goose chase.

Make sure you've worked on the rest of your health first. Optimize your sleep. Get exercise. Eliminate all processed food from your diet. Drastically reduce or eliminate carbs and sugar from your diet. Stop taking all prescription meds (if your doctor says it's okay) -- once your diet is fixed you probably won't need them.

Eating exotic wild herbs and poorly researched chemicals might make you 5 - 10% better once already optimized. But it's foolish to ignore the other 90% of things that are more simple and natural that you can do first.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Yarco

[Adodd]

On 11/11/2021 at 0:31 PM, Consilience said:

I've had the opposite results. Lion's Mane gives me an extremely noticeable improvement throughout the day. I believe it's due to my meditation practice that I'm able to notice subtle differences in the mind. If you get a bad brand, sure, but from a reputable company Lion's Mane will show good improvements in focus and even is mildly stimulating. 

@Consilience don't completely dismiss the possibility of the placebo effect. Remember that around half of the effects even of medicines that we know work are due to placebo. The studies on lions mane really are not very promising. And essentially all of these studies done arent even done on humans. I'm not sayong they do NOTHING but for the small possibility of a small difference that they may or may not make in most people, I dont think its.worth the money for a good extract. They definitely have benefits as most mushrooms do, but I'm not convinced on the cognitive side of things. Seems very overplayed to me. 

I think your on to something though abput meditation making it easier to spot subtle effects but if it was "extremely noticeable improvement throughout the day" you probably wouldnt need to have a medotation practice to notice subtle differences to notice these extreme effects. 

I'm not saying it doesnt affect you but its reasonable to guess that a big part of that could just be placebo. As far as lookong for nootropic effects I think lion's mane ranks pretty low on the list.

[Adodd]

On 11/13/2021 at 1:04 AM, Yarco said:

Nootropics are largely a wild goose chase.

Make sure you've worked on the rest of your health first. Optimize your sleep. Get exercise. Eliminate all processed food from your diet. Drastically reduce or eliminate carbs and sugar from your diet. Stop taking all prescription meds (if your doctor says it's okay) -- once your diet is fixed you probably won't need them.

Eating exotic wild herbs and poorly researched chemicals might make you 5 - 10% better once already optimized. But it's foolish to ignore the other 90% of things that are more simple and natural that you can do first.

☝great advice!

Also get blood work done at the doctor to rule out any nutrient deficiencies as many defecencies alone could play a large role in cognitive performance.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Adodd

[Consilience]

On 11/14/2021 at 1:02 PM, Adodd said:

@Consilience don't completely dismiss the possibility of the placebo effect. Remember that around half of the effects even of medicines that we know work are due to placebo. The studies on lions mane really are not very promising. And essentially all of these studies done arent even done on humans. I'm not sayong they do NOTHING but for the small possibility of a small difference that they may or may not make in most people, I dont think its.worth the money for a good extract. They definitely have benefits as most mushrooms do, but I'm not convinced on the cognitive side of things. Seems very overplayed to me. 

I think your on to something though abput meditation making it easier to spot subtle effects but if it was "extremely noticeable improvement throughout the day" you probably wouldnt need to have a medotation practice to notice subtle differences to notice these extreme effects. 

I'm not saying it doesnt affect you but its reasonable to guess that a big part of that could just be placebo. As far as lookong for nootropic effects I think lion's mane ranks pretty low on the list.

Perhaps so, but I also went into it thinking it was probably bogus, and then was sort of shocked. I think it's important to also remember with most any drug or supplements, there are going to be hyper and hypo responders. For example, if you look at the research on creatine monohydrate, it's shocking how varied some of the data is. Some individuals respond amazingly, growing muscle well beyond statistical significance, while others don't get any results at all. Seems like brain chemistry could be the same. 

I can say for myself, yes the possibility of placebo is there, but I just don't see it. It would be like drinking a 12 oz starbucks and someone telling me the caffeine effects I feel are placebo because it's not enough coffee for me to feel anything. I can say with certainty I respond well to Lion's Mane. How much is placebo is impossible to know, but my gut tells me it's not much. There have been times where I intentionally didn't take any because I didn't want the stimulated feeling that comes with taking them. 

[Wilhelm44]

Have you tried Qualia ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNtwYtgw9jQ

[Michael569]

On 13/11/2021 at 6:04 AM, Yarco said:

Nootropics are largely a wild goose chase.

Make sure you've worked on the rest of your health first. Optimize your sleep. Get exercise. Eliminate all processed food from your diet. Drastically reduce or eliminate carbs and sugar from your diet. Stop taking all prescription meds (if your doctor says it's okay) -- once your diet is fixed you probably won't need them.

^ this 

Always important to make sure one is not applying nootropics in a sort of green-pharmacology mindset. 

[Insightful27]

On 11/15/2021 at 11:37 PM, Wilhelm44 said:

Have you tried Qualia ?

No, Ive looked into it though

[Insightful27]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:01 PM, Ry4n said:

so avoid racetams they suck really bad

Have you tried them?

 

[Adodd]

@Consilience

On 11/16/2021 at 0:14 AM, Consilience said:

it's important to also remember with most any drug or supplements, there are going to be hyper and hypo responders. For example, if you look at the research on creatine monohydrate, it's shocking how varied some of the data is. Some individuals respond amazingly, growing muscle well beyond statistical significance, while others don't get any results at all. Seems like brain chemistry could be the same. 
 

Touch'e. Very fair point.

Hopefully more research will be done with lion's mane in The near future.