Reading The Tao De Ching (81 Day Reading And Discussion Board)

[justaperson001]

In pursuing the path to inner peace and the deepest spiritual understanding I can achieve, this thread is to prompt discussion on words of the ancient master Lao-Tzu, this document is in the public domain so it does not violate copyright law to share chapters here and discuss what we get from reading it. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by xGreyWolf0909x

[justaperson001]

Day One: Chapter 1

 

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

Edited December 23, 2016 by xGreyWolf0909x

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, xGreyWolf0909x said:

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao

For ninety years Lao Tzu lived – in fact he did nothing except live. He lived totally. Many times his disciples asked him to write, but he would always say: The Tao that can be told is not the real Tao, the truth that can be told becomes untrue immediately. So he would not say anything; he would not write anything. Then what were the disciples doing with him? They were only being with him. They lived with him, they moved with him, they simply imbibed his being. Being near him they tried to be open to him; being near him they tried not to think about anything; being near him they became more and more silent. In that silence he would reach them, he would come to them and he would knock at their doors.

At the age of ninety he took leave of his disciples. He said goodbye to them, and he said, ”Now I am moving towards the hills, towards the Himalayas. I am going there to get ready to die. It is good to live with people, it is good to be in the world while you are living, but when one is getting nearer to death it is good to move into total aloneness, so that you move towards the original source in your absolute purity and loneliness, uncontaminated by the world.” The disciples felt very, very sad, but what could they do? They followed him for a few hundred miles, but by and by Lao Tzu persuaded them to go back. Then alone he was crossing the border, and the guard on the border imprisoned him. The guard was also a disciple. And the guard said: ”Unless you write a book, I am not going to allow you to move beyond the border. This much you must do for humanity. Write a book. That is the debt you have to pay, otherwise I won’t allow you to cross.” So for three days Lao Tzu was imprisoned by his own disciple. It is beautiful. It is very loving. He was forced – and that’s how this small book, the book of Lao Tzu, TAO DE CHING, was born. He had to write it, because the disciple wouldn’t allow him to cross. And he was the guard and he had the authority, he could create trouble, so Lao Tzu had to write the book. In three days he finished it.

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, xGreyWolf0909x said:

The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao

At the most it can be relative.

For example, we can say something about light to a blind man knowing well that it is impossible to communicate anything about light because he has no experience of it. But something can be said about light – theories about light can be created. Even a blind man can become an expert about the theories of light; about the whole science of light he can become an expert – there is no problem in it – but he will not understand what light is. He will understand what light consists of. He will understand the physics of light, the chemistry of light, he will understand the poetry of light, but he will not understand the facticity of light, what light is. The experience of light he will not understand. So all that is said to a blind man about light is only relative: it is something about light, not light itself. Light cannot be communicated.

Something can be said about God, but God cannot be said; something can be said about love, but love cannot be said; that ”something” remains relative. It remains relative to the listener, his understanding, his intellectual grip, his training, his desire to understand. It depends on, it is relative to, the Master: his way of expressing, his devices to communicate. It remains relative – relative to many things – but it can never become the absolute experience. This is the first reason that truth cannot be expressed.

The second reason that truth cannot be expressed is because it is an experience. No experience can be communicated... leave truth aside. If you have never known love, when somebody says something about love, you will hear the word but you will miss the meaning. The word is in the dictionary. Even if you don’t understand you can look in the dictionary and you will know what it means. But the meaning is in you. Meaning comes through experience. If you have loved someone then you know the meaning of the word ”love.” The literal meaning is in the dictionary, in the language, in the grammar. But the experiential meaning, the existential meaning is in you. If you have known the experience, immediately the word ”love” is no more empty; it contains something. If I say something, it is empty unless you bring your experience to it. When your experience comes to it, it becomes significant; otherwise it remains empty – words and words and words.

How can truth be expressed when you have not experienced it? Even in ordinary life an unexperienced thing cannot be told. Only words will be conveyed. The container will reach you but the content will be lost. An empty word will travel towards you; you will hear it and you will think you understand it because you know the literal meaning of it, but you will miss. The real, authentic meaning comes through existential experience. You have to know it, there is no other way. There is no shortcut. Truth cannot be transferred. You cannot steal it, you cannot borrow it, you cannot purchase it, you cannot rob it, you cannot beg it – there is no way. Unless you have it, you cannot have it. So what can be done?

The only way – and I emphasize it – the only way is to live with someone who has attained to the experience. Just being in the presence of someone who has attained to the experience, something mysterious will be transferred to you... not by words – it is a jump of energy. Just as a flame can jump from a lit lamp to an unlit lamp – you bring the unlit lamp closer to the lit lamp, and the flame can jump – the same thing happens between a Master and a disciple: a transmission beyond scriptures – a transmission of energy not of message, a transmission of life not of words.

[justaperson001]

That is beautiful! Is

2 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

For ninety years Lao Tzu lived – in fact he did nothing except live. He lived totally. Many times his disciples asked him to write, but he would always say: The Tao that can be told is not the real Tao, the truth that can be told becomes untrue immediately. So he would not say anything; he would not write anything. Then what were the disciples doing with him? They were only being with him. They lived with him, they moved with him, they simply imbibed his being. Being near him they tried to be open to him; being near him they tried not to think about anything; being near him they became more and more silent. In that silence he would reach them, he would come to them and he would knock at their doors.

At the age of ninety he took leave of his disciples. He said goodbye to them, and he said, ”Now I am moving towards the hills, towards the Himalayas. I am going there to get ready to die. It is good to live with people, it is good to be in the world while you are living, but when one is getting nearer to death it is good to move into total aloneness, so that you move towards the original source in your absolute purity and loneliness, uncontaminated by the world.” The disciples felt very, very sad, but what could they do? They followed him for a few hundred miles, but by and by Lao Tzu persuaded them to go back. Then alone he was crossing the border, and the guard on the border imprisoned him. The guard was also a disciple. And the guard said: ”Unless you write a book, I am not going to allow you to move beyond the border. This much you must do for humanity. Write a book. That is the debt you have to pay, otherwise I won’t allow you to cross.” So for three days Lao Tzu was imprisoned by his own disciple. It is beautiful. It is very loving. He was forced – and that’s how this small book, the book of Lao Tzu, TAO DE CHING, was born. He had to write it, because the disciple wouldn’t allow him to cross. And he was the guard and he had the authority, he could create trouble, so Lao Tzu had to write the book. In three days he finished it.

Thank you so much for sharing that! What a beautiful story! 

[justaperson001]

Day Two: Chapter 2

When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.

Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and she lets them come;
things disappear and she lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.
That is why it lasts forever.

[Prabhaker]

2 hours ago, xGreyWolf0909x said:

When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

The world will be beautiful when people have forgotten about beauty, because then there will be no ugliness. The world will be moral when people have completely forgotten the word ”moral,” because then there will be no immorality. The world will be in order when there is nobody to enforce it , nobody who is trying to create order. All those who try to create order are the mischief-makers – they create disorder. But it is difficult to understand. It is difficult because our whole mind has been trained, trained by these schizophrenic thinkers. They say: Choose God and reject the devil; be good, don’t be bad. And the more you try to be good the more you feel your badness inside.

Have you ever observed that saints who are trying to be absolutely virtuous are too conscious of their sins? Then read Augustine’s confessions. A whole life trying to be a saint, then there arises the recognition of sin. The more you try to be a saint the more you will feel you are encircled by sins. Try to be good and you will feel how bad you are. Try to be loving and you will come across hatred, anger, jealousy, possessiveness. Try to be beautiful and you will become more and more aware of how ugly you are.

Drop the dichotomy. Drop the schizophrenic attitude. Be simple. And when you are simple you don’t know who you are – beautiful or ugly.

You always choose: you choose to be beautiful and ugliness becomes your shadow; you choose to be religious and irreligiousness becomes your shadow; you choose to be a saint and sin becomes your shadow. Choose – and you will be in difficulty, because the very choice has divided life. Don’t choose, be choiceless, let life flow. Sometimes it looks like God, sometimes it looks like the devil – both are beautiful. You don’t choose. Don’t try to be a saint; otherwise your saintliness will not be real saintliness – a pride in it will make everything ugly. So I say that many times sinners have reached the divine and saints have missed. Because sinners are always humble; thinking themselves sinners, they cannot claim.

[justaperson001]

14 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

The world will be beautiful when people have forgotten about beauty, because then there will be no ugliness. The world will be moral when people have completely forgotten the word ”moral,” because then there will be no immorality. The world will be in order when there is nobody to enforce it , nobody who is trying to create order. All those who try to create order are the mischief-makers – they create disorder. But it is difficult to understand. It is difficult because our whole mind has been trained, trained by these schizophrenic thinkers. They say: Choose God and reject the devil; be good, don’t be bad. And the more you try to be good the more you feel your badness inside.

Have you ever observed that saints who are trying to be absolutely virtuous are too conscious of their sins? Then read Augustine’s confessions. A whole life trying to be a saint, then there arises the recognition of sin. The more you try to be a saint the more you will feel you are encircled by sins. Try to be good and you will feel how bad you are. Try to be loving and you will come across hatred, anger, jealousy, possessiveness. Try to be beautiful and you will become more and more aware of how ugly you are.

Drop the dichotomy. Drop the schizophrenic attitude. Be simple. And when you are simple you don’t know who you are – beautiful or ugly.

You always choose: you choose to be beautiful and ugliness becomes your shadow; you choose to be religious and irreligiousness becomes your shadow; you choose to be a saint and sin becomes your shadow. Choose – and you will be in difficulty, because the very choice has divided life. Don’t choose, be choiceless, let life flow. Sometimes it looks like God, sometimes it looks like the devil – both are beautiful. You don’t choose. Don’t try to be a saint; otherwise your saintliness will not be real saintliness – a pride in it will make everything ugly. So I say that many times sinners have reached the divine and saints have missed. Because sinners are always humble; thinking themselves sinners, they cannot claim.

So the current version of the Tao Te Ching I am pulling from is a translation by S. Mitchell from 1995, however, based on your interpretation of what chapter two I'd like to also post the same chapter as it was translated by J. Legge from 1891.

---

All in the world know the beauty of the beautiful, and in doing
this they have (the idea of) what ugliness is; they all know the skill
of the skilful, and in doing this they have (the idea of) what the
want of skill is.

So it is that existence and non-existence give birth the one to
(the idea of) the other; that difficulty and ease produce the one (the
idea of) the other; that length and shortness fashion out the one the
figure of the other; that (the ideas of) height and lowness arise from
the contrast of the one with the other; that the musical notes and
tones become harmonious through the relation of one with another; and
that being before and behind give the idea of one following another.

Therefore the sage manages affairs without doing anything, and
conveys his instructions without the use of speech.

All things spring up, and there is not one which declines to show
itself; they grow, and there is no claim made for their ownership;
they go through their processes, and there is no expectation (of a
reward for the results). The work is accomplished, and there is no
resting in it (as an achievement).

The work is done, but how no one can see;
'Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

[justaperson001]

I chose S. Mitchell for this board because his writing style is easy to read and memorable. However, J. Legge's translation of the Tao Te Ching is far more accurate and reflex the context of the Chinese language it was translated from much better; so moving forward I will post both version of each chapter. 

Edited December 24, 2016 by xGreyWolf0909x

[justaperson001]

 

Day Three: Chapter 3

-Stephen Mitchell's Translation-

If you overesteem great men,
people become powerless.
If you overvalue possessions,
people begin to steal.

The Master leads
by emptying people's minds
and filling their cores,
by weakening their ambition
and toughening their resolve.
He helps people lose everything
they know, everything they desire,
and creates confusion
in those who think that they know.

Practice not-doing,
and everything will fall into place.

-James Legge's Translation-

Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to
keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles
which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming
thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is
the way to keep their minds from disorder.

Therefore the sage, in the exercise of his government, empties
their minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens
their bones.

He constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without
desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them
from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from
action, good order is universal.

Edited December 24, 2016 by xGreyWolf0909x

[justaperson001]

Day Four: Chapter 4

-Stephen Mitchell's Translation-

The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities.

It is hidden but always present.
I don't know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God.

-James Legge's Translation-

The Tao is (like) the emptiness of a vessel; and in our
employment of it we must be on our guard against all fulness. How
deep and unfathomable it is, as if it were the Honoured Ancestor of
all things!

We should blunt our sharp points, and unravel the complications of
things; we should attemper our brightness, and bring ourselves into
agreement with the obscurity of others. How pure and still the Tao
is, as if it would ever so continue!

I do not know whose son it is. It might appear to have been before

Edited December 27, 2016 by xGreyWolf0909x