Commitment phobia in men - HELP

[Etherial Cat]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And why most guys who ask for your number will never get a reply

Most guys approaching me through a cold approach or in a club will not get my number because there will be likely zero resonance between us. 

Obviously, what drives his choice at this point is just the body, and I'm only interested in people holistically willing to consider me.

By not giving it away, I'm saving time for him and for myself. Though, I give my number very easily each time other factors get involved. So, I follow up gladly, except if it crosses the line and shows an excessive sexual intent. This is a good sign of being actually fuck zoned and I don't like that.

[PurpleTree]

oh yea i'm also scared of commitment

but i generally find decisions very hard, even for an ice cream if there are 100 options 

or for a job i find it extremely hard 

and once you're committed in a relationship it's more easily to get hurt, like if you think that's your "true" love and then she cheats on you or something or takes you to court  

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Most guys approaching me through a cold approach or in a club will not get my number because there will be likely zero resonance between us. 

But even when there is great resonance between you, you will still give out your number and then not reply back.

Quote

Obviously, what drives his choice at this point is just the body, and I'm only interested in people holistically willing to consider me.

I got news for ya, any guy that you sleep with was attracted to your body before he learned anything about you.

To consider you holistically requires approaching you and flirting with you, which requires the guy to be attracted to your body enough to do the approach. You are expecting guys to get hard for holistic knowledge of you, but that's not how guys work.

So what you really are asking for is for a guy to be attracted to your body, but then hide it from you and pretend like he isn't, talk with you for a long time, and then pretend he fell in love with your personality.

[Vzdoh]

@Nahm so if I understand correctly, 

Both people in a relationship represent source love and they don't need or depend on one another to be directly related/connected to source love. In other words, both people are at all times independent and choose to be together to help each other to get more connected to source love energy. Then commitment is not even an issue because there is nothing to commit to? 

Am I following? 

[Vzdoh]

@Leo Gura is there a way to challenge these beliefs though? That commitment = loss of freedom? 

Is there anything I can do to challenge these beliefs? Or guide him to explore the notions of communion where two free and independent individuals interact and support each other but do not depend on each other and no freedoms are taken away? 

[tsuki]

@Vzdoh I remember seeing another thread from you that was similar to this one in the past.

You cannot make someone commit to you. If you could, that commitment would destroy the relationship.

Conscious choice is the key ingredient.

[mandyjw]

This sure as heck happens to women too. Usually one partner pressures for marriage or engagement and the other is uncomfortable in response. I have a sister and the theme in our relationships has almost always been feeling pressured for commitment by men. She had to return so many engagement rings, and never did marry any of them. If one partner pressures, the other will will often react by desiring freedom or distance. 

Attract and appreciate in all aspects of your life, don't try to secure or lock it down. You can't really love and also mentally stamp MINE on it at the same time. 

Damn it, I think I just had an insight about my current money mentality. 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Vzdoh said:

@Leo Gura is there a way to challenge these beliefs though? That commitment = loss of freedom? 

Is there anything I can do to challenge these beliefs? Or guide him to explore the notions of communion where two free and independent individuals interact and support each other but do not depend on each other and no freedoms are taken away? 

But freedoms are taken away. Relationship requires sacrifice and compromise. This requires serious maturity and desire to compromise and surrender things for the good of the other. A selflessness is required.

You two will definitely depend on each other. There are just more or less unhealthy ways to go about it.

But intimacy and communion can be beautiful things. I guess you have to help him see the beauty of it and he has to start to want it more than freedom. Keeping a distance from people is actually a defense mechanism many of us have developed because dealing with people can be such a bad experience. He's probably had some bad experiences of intimacy or getting too close in the past which needs to be contemplated and re-evaluated.

I don't really know if a woman can guide a man into a desire for deep intimacy. Really, the man should be guiding the woman. This situation is sorta backwards. But since this is where you're at, do the best you can with him. Maybe you could use sex to guide him towards a deeper appreciation of intimacy. Try to have more intimate sex with him. Or just explicitly tell him you'd like to deepen the intimacy of your sex.

Guys tend to think with their dicks so a good way to get guys to buy into the power of intimacy is through the sex. Most guys have no idea how much better and deeper the sex can be when deep intimacy is specifically aimed for.

[Etherial Cat]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

But even when there is great resonance between you, you will still give out your number and then not reply back.

No. I do reply.

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I got news for ya, any guy that you sleep with was attracted to your body before he learned anything about you.

Of course, objective factors are always noticed, but my point is that quality attraction revolves around BOTH objective and subjective factors.

When 1/2 is filed, I don't blink much. Whether it's for me or for them.

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To consider your holistically requires approaching you and flirting with you, which requires the guy to be attracted to your body enough to do the approach. You are expecting guys to get hard for holistic knowing of you, but that's not how guys work.

That's only true if we meet in social settings where my looks is primarily what will be noticed, which are environments I try to avoid.

Also, guys don't have to always start conversations or social interaction with women on the basis of their look or attraction level, you know. If you have guy friends (I'm assuming your not attracted to them), you could totally also conceive how men can engage in all kind of relationships with women without sexual intent being the primary cause as a start.

Approach in the sense of Game is not the only way to meet people. I would even say, most interaction start through randomness, and not cold approach.

[Thunder Kiss]

It’s not just men who have fear of commitment. I have also have the fear.  all the times I’ve not wanted to commit to something there was a certain resistance against it.  Kinda like a gut feeling that it’s not right or I was being pressured.
free birds don’t wanna be caged, but they do wanna nest knowing they are free to leave if they want.  Which is counterintuitive because if you know you can fly away you probably won’t.  But if you feel caged in or forced then all the more you will want to resist. 
 

 

[Vzdoh]

@Leo Gura yeah, he was in an abusive relationship for quite awhile and I guess his childhood was not rosy either if he attracted and stayed for so long with someone that abusive. I would be scared too. 

Good point on showing that intimacy and communion can be a beautiful experience. 

I don't see an issue on leading him to see and experience more intimacy if I am the one who had more experience with it and know how beautiful it can be ??

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Etherial Cat said:

No. I do reply.

Haha

1 minute ago, Etherial Cat said:

Of course, objective factors are always noticed, but my point is that quality attraction revolves around BOTH objective and subjective factors.

When 1/2 is filed, I don't blink much. Whether it's for me or for them.

Of course, which is why good game requires screening and qualifying the girl before sleeping with her.

You think us guys don't know that you don't like being lusted after purely for your body?

It's one of the reasons why guys should rarely compliment women on her physical appearance. And the hotter she is, the less physical compliments.

[Etherial Cat]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't really know if a woman can guide a man into a desire for deep intimacy. Really, the man should be guiding the woman. This situation is sorta backwards.

You blind, bruh . It's obviously the contrary. 

The average men treat intimacy like cats afraid of water. Nor emotions, vulnerability or even trusting females are a masculine forte. 

 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Vzdoh said:

@Leo Gura

I don't see an issue on leading him to see and experience more intimacy if I am the one who had more experience with it and know how beautiful it can be ??

Yeah, but he has to want and appreciate the intimacy though. If you take him too deep into it he might just get more defensive and standoffish.

I would burn the candle from both ends here: implicitly build up more intimacy, but then also explicitly talk to him about the power of consciously creating deep intimacy.

[Superfluo]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But freedoms are taken away. Relationship requires sacrifice and compromise. This requires serious maturity and desire to compromise and surrender things for the good of the other. A selflessness is required.

Will you talk about this in the series about conscious relationship? I guess the dichotomy freedom-intimacy is a huge and critical factor in relationship which needs to be fully understood by people.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

The average men treat intimacy like cats afraid of water. Nor emotions, vulnerability or even trusting females are a masculine forte. 

Yes! But can you cause him to flip that around? Good luck.

If I sat the dude down and had a 2 hour conversation with him about how dumb he's being, then maybe that would get through to him. But when you ladies shower him with more intimacy, that might just cause him to run away.

[Etherial Cat]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Yes! But can you cause him to flip that around? Good luck.

It's almost like it is as difficult as flipping your mind. 

Only you can do that, of course. But the leading part is what I've been disagreeing with. 

[Etherial Cat]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha

I do. ?Bitter man!

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, which is why good game requires screening and qualifying the girl before sleeping with her.

You think us guys don't know that you don't like being lusted after purely for your body?

It's one of the reasons why guys should rarely compliment women on her physical appearance. And the hotter she is, the less physical compliments.

Useless if your saliva is dripping out of your mouth and you assign a shit ton of value to the said look. The energy is still there.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Vzdoh]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes! But can you cause him to flip that around? Good luck.

If I sat the dude down and had a 2 hour conversation with him about how dumb he's being, then maybe that would get through to him. But when you ladies shower him with more intimacy, that might just cause him to run away.

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura i am quite logical and can try with probing questions gently so that he asks himself these questions or at least questions his beliefs. 

Intimate sex won't work. Trauma there. I will have to figure out a way physically but not touching his trauma. 

[mandyjw]

You attract what you attract based on your own beliefs reflecting themselves back to you, then you say "men are like that" or "women are like that." 

Nope. 

You powerful creators, you. 

Start having some fun and stop complaining to me that this is a SHITTY ART ASSIGMENT. It's not an assignment at all, you're free to do what you want. Then you complain you're missing your freedom, or your intimacy. What could be more intimate OR free than being the creator, creation and creating all at the same time?   -Sincerely, Mother Nature

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by mandyjw