SUPER DUPER Model of the Human Psyche & Development: Bonnitta Roy

[Matt23]

 This fucking blew my mind.  

I think this woman knows her shit.  Going, seemingly, way beyond what Wilber did.  

 

[Epikur]

Bonnitta Roy - HOW SELF ORGANIZATION HAPPENS AND WHY YOU CAN TRUST IT.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Epikur

[Matt23]

@Epikur Cheers.  I'll take a gander.  

I always wonder why some people who seem so advanced in their fields don't get as much attention in the public eye and awareness as it seems they should.  Like, knowing about Bonnitta and her work seems like such a niche thing, yet her work and what she offers seems so advanced, more so than any college professor or famous/popular psychologists and developmentalists etc.

[Matt23]

Here's Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dJaUEa02Fo

Quote (from the previous episode):  "You can't have a functional and real 'We' without functional and real 'I's"

Basics:

• Of the 3 lines of "development/growth" of the human psyche in her model (Showing Up-"Being That" / Growing Up-Wider Embrace-More Coherence-"Being With" / Waking Up-Individuation-"Being As"), this video focuses on the Growing Up line of development.
• Features of the Growing Up line of development
  • It's developmental, which, as she says, is developmental (i.e. linear) in nature and is thus different than the other lines.  She doesn't go into detail about how specifically this differs from the other lines or how, then, the other lines "develop".  Though I'm interested to learn about it. 
  • It, seemingly, is mostly about growing circles of concern (on a very superficial level).  

It moves from...

• GROSS

1. Mine:
   • Tier: Pre-Concrete
   • Identity = Actor: One identifies with one's behaviors.  Once one notices how one has a multiplicity of behaviors, one can no longer identify with them since "I" is singular.  Thus, transcending and including behaviors gives rise to the next structure (identifying with roles)
   • Driver:  Impulses
   • Psychological Structure:  Primary Schemas (I know very little about them.  But from what I've gathered, they are fundamental, and usually quite primitive and unnuanced concepts which we first use to organize reality: like using one's mother and father as the basis for all masculine and feminine things in the world, including objects.  Meaning that these are quite rudimentary and not often adequate to fully make adequate sense of reality).  
   • Need:  Safety
   • Pronoun:  "Mine"
   • Developmental level:  Pre-conventional
   • Even animals have this ego-system/structure: my bone, my babies/pups, my toy, my body, my food, etc.. 
2. Me
   • Tier: Concrete
   • Identity = Agent:  One now identifies with roles (you see kids start playing the role of "mommy" or "daddy" or the postman or teacher, etc.).  This is the domain where Internal Family Systems therapy/model falls, which is a critique of it since that means it's actually working with quite a rudimentary and older structure.  Also, simply because kids do this doesn't mean adults can't get stuck here as well, as exemplified when people identify with their profession, thus get stuck in it, etc.  Like the teacher who "is a teacher", does it for life, and never changes.  In one sense this is easy, but in another, it "eats at your soul" and can leave you unfulfilled.  Especially if it's work that doesn't give you energy.  This is also where you can see families reinforcing this stage by pushing kids to be doctors or something.  
   • Driver: Role
   • Psy-Structure: Internal Working Models
   • Need: Belonging
   • Pronoun: "Me"
   • Dev. Level: Early Conventional

• Bonnitta noted that these stages that fall within the gross category tend to attribute much externally and on physical things: "If only my parents were better", "If only I had more money", "If only my school system was more developed", etc..  With the next level (the Subtle), she notes that a "switch" is made where one starts to now attribute things more on one's own internal causes and effects, and thus concentrates on one's own mindsets, emotions, and the like. Which she considers a significant upgrade.
• SUBTLE

1. "I"
   • Tier: 1st Formal
   • Identity = Author:  One starts being able to notice that one takes on many roles since one is starting to engage others more (sexually) and thus can notice that "I am a lot different and feel different with Sally and friends then I do with my family then I do with John, etc..  So, again, a transcend and include type of thing happens since one can no longer identify with the roles one takes since "I" am singular.  This is where my knowledge sort of fades a bit, but the emphasis, as I heard it, was more on putting one's autobiographical story into a coherent narrative.  Maybe it's like, instead of identifying with particular roles, as an actor would in a play, one can now identify with the larger story being told and thus transcends any one role and is able to sort of craft one's own story or narrative using multiple roles.  Again, I'm not too sure. 
   • Driver: Script
   • Psy-Structure: Story
   • Need: Biographical Coherence (I think she mentioned this is where much psychotherapy happens, whereas the previous stage was maybe where many people spend their time in their jobs and work relationships). 
   • Pronoun: "I"
   • Dev. Level: Late Conventional
2. "Self"
   • Tier: 2nd Formal
   • Identity = self-Author:  I suspect that what I spoke about above about "writing one's own narrative" might apply more to this stage.  But, again, I'm really not sure about it.  
   • Driver: Self-Actualization 
   • Psy-Structure: Systems of Systems
   • Need: Authenticity (Bonnitta talks about people often expressing the desire to "find their authentic self" and discover the capacities of this human form.  Which, though it is beautiful, she says is or can be a trap as well since there is no "true self" since the self is a process). 
   • Pronoun: "Self" (which she claims means something more than just the "I" to them and is something other previous stages can't really comprehend or understand). 
   • Dev. Level: Post-conventional

• CAUSAL

1. "It" (Spirit/Nature)
   • Tier: 3rd Post-Formal
   • Identity
   • Driver
   • Psy-Structure
   • Need
   • Pronoun: "It" (spirit/nature).  She claims many people start expressing things like "the universe/god/nature" is doing things through me, and that this is the first stage where things become about the other (as opposed to all the previous stages which are seen as narcissistic since they are really all about themselves).  She says this is where you get the Ghandis, the Martin Luther Kings; people who's simple presence changes things. 
   • Dev. Level:  Post-Formal

This was laid out in a grid she showed. 

I didn't lay out a further addition to it which is what these levels look like when interacting with others and the environment.  

Again, this is just me processing the info after a quick scan through the video.  Definitely not totally digested or remembered or understood.  

Cheers

 

The next video she'll do on this will cover things regarding the CORE self I believe.  THings like shame, trauma, n stuff and how that fits into the picture.  

Edited November 19, 2021 by Matt23