A Complete Lack of Positive Feelings

[Mjolnir]

Hello Everyone!
(Unfortunately my previous post got lost in the recent forum crash, so I try to replicate my question as good as possible. I read two responses, one which I'll try to answer down below, the other was "pm'd", which I didn't get the chance to read and is lost by the crash, sorry for that.)

I've asked this question multiple times on this forum already, but as I try new things and create a better understanding of it myself I ask again in hopes of finding the right answer.

The challenge I have:

I experience what I think is a lack of positive feelings (the feelings we'd like more of). What I mean by that is that I don't even know how feelings like being happy, joyful, fulfilled or loved feel as I don't recall when I last felt them. Different events that seem to trigger friends or colleague's joy don't resonate at all. Like the idea that it's almost weekend, a bonus, walking in nature, going to some event, going to friends, shopping/buying something, even the idea that it'd win the biggest lottery. They don't even spark the tiniest bit of feelings. I can focus on my body, feel the sensations and notice what I feel, yet it's neutral. I don't feel any of those sensations or feelings.
However, when there's a bad news message I do experience those feelings in my body. They are noticeable, they jump out, they don't feel pleasant. The "negative" feelings (the ones we like to feel less of) they do come up. Being anxious, frustrated/angry, or sad. They happen, they come up and I can notice and feel those in my body. They don't happen often, I guess a somewhat healthy amount, but they exist. This makes me know that I do feel my feelings, yet not the ones I'd like to experience as well.

My standard mood is neutral, sort of indifferent to things. I don't mind if it rains or when the sun shines, get to go home early or work overtime. No negative or toxic thoughts, no self loathing, signs of depression, no stress, no anxiety. (Of course I do get the occasional negative thoughts but that's more related to situations and seem to float away relatively quick)  Kinda rational in nature, think before I react and mostly calm in nature.
I'd like to add here that I have a sort of chronic pelvic floor issue where it doesn't want to release easily. (for years I did extra effort to "hold up" number 1 and 2 when the issues started basically flexing the muscles a lot) I've tried many different physical therapies and what not but it didn't resolve yet. I have it mentally handled, no issue at all with just little physical troubles as I've learned to deal with it and symptoms heavily reduced. Yet, even when these issues were at it's peak, I was very solution driven, not in a victim mentality.
I add that last part, as at times I've thought that it could be a contributing factor to being unable to experience those "positive" feelings, yet I haven't found a clear answer to this. Also, I'd expect that there are people with more daunting physical issues, that are in actual pain or what not that could still experience those "positive" feelings.

What I have tried:
Last time I asked about this someone suggested a dopamine detox, as I noted that I tend to spend my spare time behind the pc gaming or chilling. So I did a complete detox on entertainment (pc, tv, music and phone) for like 10-11 days, but I didn't feel any different.
I've had a 1+ year streak of meditation for avg. abt 15mins a day, but no changes.
I tried dietary changes, daily cold showers, taking vitamins, I have a very consistent rhythm with sleep, eating and I cycle to work. I do absolutely zero alcohol and drugs and I'm on no meds. I have had longer stretches of exercise (although I currently don't exercise). None of these seem to influence the core question I came with, although I can notice slight shifts when I don't do some of these. But that's more in terms of overall mood and not in the complete lack of those positive feelings.
Also tried psychologists, journaling, massages, different physical therapies, cbd. Gratitude exercises don't really work as far as I've tried. Setting goals or fantasising about the future, no avail. I still engage in the behaviors that make me feel more comfortable like listening to music, playing guitar or playing some games. But besides listening to music, they seem kinda empty not really engaging but more something to keep busy.

The pelvic floor thing and this lack of positive feelings thing basically led me on the way of self development. I done my NLP practitioner (very useful tools, yet barely and use for me as I had troubles with the exercises that were based on experiencing things. The exercise where I could use my head were fun and useful though). I read a lot of books, listen to so many YouTube videos and tried audio courses. I even went overseas to America for a Tony Robbins event, but even that didn't change me emotionally although I tried to go all out.

 

Basically what I want to say is, I tried so many different things but I haven't gotten any glimpse with anything that I'm on the right path. I think my mind is screwed on "correctly", no mental patterns or behaviors I can find that hinder me with solving this challenge. I feel like this hinders me in life as I can't find a clear direction on where to go to. The goals I set dissipate in a few days as it's just a thought without emotion behind it. Making changes in my life are pure willpower at this point, which doesn't prevail when I get tired for example.

 

I think this was a bit longer than the previous one. Hopefully this paints a clear picture, and hopefully someone has some ideas what I can do. If you have any questions or want clarifications for something please let me know!
Thanks for taking the time and have a great day!

[Elton]

@Mjolnir have you tried affirmations and visualisation for at least a year continously ?

Affirmation example would be I am happy or I see funniness everywhere...

 

[mandyjw]

Music, nature, inspiring quotes, poetry, profound art, beautiful art? Ever had a really good dream? Do those things ever seem to trigger anything? 

One of the secrets about life is that positive feelings don't have to be triggered by anything. They are actually uncaused. It's beautiful that they seem to be caused but it's more about the lack of thoughts saying something is missing when we get something nice than the thing that's nice. When you get something new for example, or go somewhere new, or meet someone new, it's new and so you really perceive it openly, and really appreciate it. When we are on a vacation for example, we don't "know" what we are seeing, so we just plain see. We are less dragged down by prejudgment and the idea that we already know everything and so it is boring. In reality, we don't really know anything, even if we've been there a thousand times, it's always new.  

We may be continually thinking thoughts that weigh us down and gloss over the new childlike wonder of life. One of those thoughts that might be repeated is the story that "I don't feel positive feelings." You don't know that. Don't drag the past into your present. Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now might be a great read for you.

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

I experience what I think is a lack

It isn’t. 

[Chris365]

Sounds like you're well on your way to equanimity... A little work on the so called perceived negative feelings, and you can start teaching ?.

Note that the 'lack of positive feelings' is JUST a thought. You have a belief that we should experience these, conditioned into you by society/environment. 

Besides the conditioned response and belief in lack, is there any truth to it?  Look now, what is actually missing? And try to not reply with beliefs, only with what's actual.

[Mjolnir]

Thank you all for your responses!

On 8-11-2021 at 11:09 AM, Elton said:

@Mjolnir have you tried affirmations and visualisation for at least a year continously ?

Affirmation example would be I am happy or I see funniness everywhere...

 

I have tried this before, not for atleast a year but for a couple of weeks. They felt like just words without emotion behind it, so I eventually stopped doing it.

23 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Music, nature, inspiring quotes, poetry, profound art, beautiful art? Ever had a really good dream? Do those things ever seem to trigger anything? 

One of the secrets about life is that positive feelings don't have to be triggered by anything. They are actually uncaused. It's beautiful that they seem to be caused but it's more about the lack of thoughts saying something is missing when we get something nice than the thing that's nice. When you get something new for example, or go somewhere new, or meet someone new, it's new and so you really perceive it openly, and really appreciate it. When we are on a vacation for example, we don't "know" what we are seeing, so we just plain see. We are less dragged down by prejudgment and the idea that we already know everything and so it is boring. In reality, we don't really know anything, even if we've been there a thousand times, it's always new.  

We may be continually thinking thoughts that weigh us down and gloss over the new childlike wonder of life. One of those thoughts that might be repeated is the story that "I don't feel positive feelings." You don't know that. Don't drag the past into your present. Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now might be a great read for you.

I do get triggers from music, which is actually one of the healthy things I have in my repertoire as a state changer and something that evokes slight feelings at times. A beautiful voice, crazy guitar solo or bad ass riff. When the timing is perfect that's what can move me. Also, stories about people that seem to be committed to something, or crazy driven on their specific thing. (take a David Goggins, Miyamoto Musashi, Tony Robbins) Focus on absolute mastery in a field, like a guitarist or singer. There are things that seem to peek my interest or trigger a slight change in mood.
On your second point, I'm curious, do I get the right idea that maybe my thoughts are the thing that inhibit those feelings? That by thinking "hey its cool I just got this or went there, but I still don't experience those feelings" I sort of set myself up to not experience what I'm looking for? I tend to have a habit of trying to go deeper or beyond for example on a goal. What I mean is, I try to go further and look for the "absolute thing". A thought example: I want to learn x song on guitar -> I want to be flawless in playing it -> I should become a guitar virtuoso.  There's always a "and then what?" question following. I sort of praise myself, or identify myself on thoughtfulness, going "deeper" or away from the superficial. Could this be an obstacle to those feelings I want? (Note for self: identity, beliefs and expectations might play a big role here as well)
I've read the Power of Now twice, but I experienced it as a difficult book to understand. I re-read it, and potentially get it in my native language if I still feel the same!
Many thanks for the thought provoking answer!

21 hours ago, Nahm said:

It isn’t. 

I don't really understand what you mean

4 hours ago, Chris365 said:

Sounds like you're well on your way to equanimity... A little work on the so called perceived negative feelings, and you can start teaching ?.

Note that the 'lack of positive feelings' is JUST a thought. You have a belief that we should experience these, conditioned into you by society/environment. 

Besides the conditioned response and belief in lack, is there any truth to it?  Look now, what is actually missing? And try to not reply with beliefs, only with what's actual.

I have some trouble understanding your question correctly, but I hope this answers it somehow. First of all, FUCK man I try to clarify my thoughts on this and explain but I basically keep running into different beliefs, expectations and my own perceived observations (which I fill in with my own mind and might not be actually true to others).
I've been at this for like 30minutes but can't seem to get it to words. I'll have to commit another time to answering your question as I have to go work now. Thank you for waiting and thank you for the mind scrambling

[Nahm]

15 minutes ago, Mjolnir said:

I don't really understand what you mean

 

On 11/8/2021 at 3:33 AM, Mjolnir said:

I experience what I think is a lack

That’s a belief, a misinterpretation, misunderstanding. 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Mjolnir said:

I do get triggers from music, which is actually one of the healthy things I have in my repertoire as a state changer and something that evokes slight feelings at times. A beautiful voice, crazy guitar solo or bad ass riff. When the timing is perfect that's what can move me. Also, stories about people that seem to be committed to something, or crazy driven on their specific thing. (take a David Goggins, Miyamoto Musashi, Tony Robbins) Focus on absolute mastery in a field, like a guitarist or singer. There are things that seem to peek my interest or trigger a slight change in mood.
 

Yes! Take notice, make more opportunities or space for that. 

 

2 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

On your second point, I'm curious, do I get the right idea that maybe my thoughts are the thing that inhibit those feelings? That by thinking "hey its cool I just got this or went there, but I still don't experience those feelings" I sort of set myself up to not experience what I'm looking for? I tend to have a habit of trying to go deeper or beyond for example on a goal. What I mean is, I try to go further and look for the "absolute thing". A thought example: I want to learn x song on guitar -> I want to be flawless in playing it -> I should become a guitar virtuoso.  There's always a "and then what?" question following. I sort of praise myself, or identify myself on thoughtfulness, going "deeper" or away from the superficial. Could this be an obstacle to those feelings I want? (Note for self: identity, beliefs and expectations might play a big role here as well)

When the first Europeans discovered America, they didn't have any idea what they discovered. But technically they had discovered something that to the Natives point of view did not even need discovering. Then there was Lewis and Clark, and, railroads and electricity and the Oregon Trail, and, and, and... there's always more discovery. Endless discovery is what we really want. You can be satisfied by knowing there's no end to this. What greater perfection! It's when you believe the end to be inherent in the future and have thoughts that say "this isn't it" that it kills the mood so to speak. 

2 hours ago, Mjolnir said:

I've read the Power of Now twice, but I experienced it as a difficult book to understand. I re-read it, and potentially get it in my native language if I still feel the same!

Awesome, yeah it's an interesting book, sort of boring as hell and fascinating at the same time. I wouldn't force trying to understand so much if it's not speaking to you. Just look out for what does. ❤

Also a thought that says "I experience lack!" is a thought that is turning lack into a THING, AND assuming that "thing" is problematic. But if it's a thing, how is it lack? Which is it lack, or a thing? And if it's lack then how could it be experienced? See how hilarious thought is? That's why that thought feels bad, it's ridiculous, but you aren't seeing the humor, you're believing it to be an issue in the moment. 

[Mjolnir]

I really appreciate all of you responding (and mindfucking me into oblivion lol). I'd like to say something, not as an attack but in conveying my thoughts. Please, I don't try to sound like an ass here

I notice I feel a bit frustrated as I try to convey my experience to you all. I'm trying to find the words to describe this experience in which I use words I hope portray the best picture to you. But I notice that some of those words are taking very literal, like "i experience lack" for example. To me it feels as if those words jump out here and fade out the rest of the story.  I'm aware of the power of words and what they can actually tell, but right now it's as if I wasn't able to convey my experience in the right way. I say for example "I experience a lack of..." in a descriptive way, hoping to explain in a way that could be understood, rather than saying my actual feelings about this (I don't have a feeling of lack. Like: the bowl of cat food seems to be empty).

I don't know if I shouldve even typed this, as I can go meta on everything I say and pinpoint things that jump out to myself.

The reason I come here with this question is that I'd like to be able to use my emotions to change life circumstances. Thus far it hasn't worked in the way I'd like to, as if I'm running solely on willpower. When I try to dig deeper, I try to look at my emotions. Interests, sensations in body (what feels good what do I want more of), and I notice that it feels indifferent, besides when there's for example some piece of bad news. ("negative" emotions, the ones we like to feel less of. I know theres no good/bad thing about emotions, it's basically a message for you). Basically: I'd like to feel those feelings in my body, which could help me guide my life.

[Mjolnir]

9 hours ago, modmyth said:

These are just a few questions and maybe a place to start. I can relate to your issue a decent amount, though perhaps not for the same reasons.

1) Is there nothing that you feel passionate about spontaneous about? Something or someone? Do you never recall feeling inspired? Or finding something extremely beautiful? The examples you all described were as a result of RECEIVING something concrete (with the exception of taking a walk in nature), so it was more on the hedonistic side. But what if "happiness" as a state of being, on a less transitory level, doesn't have that much to do with that at all?

 

2)Do you have some sort of associative event(s) in your upbringing where there is a sort of stigma about expressing and feeling emotions (especially positive ones, in your case)? Were you ever punished or disapproved of for expressing these emotions?
Alternatively,is there something in your past that might be associated to not feeling "safe enough" (or like you have enough space/ justification) for feeling positive emotions?

What's your memory/ association levels like when it comes to your past and childhood in general? (This might be a very important one.)

Were your parents very dissociative people? Were they emotionally absent or neglectful?

3) What's the process like with experience your negative emotions? How do you deal with them or resolve them, if in any way? Also: are you prone to any sort dissociation or spacing out? Is this something you have spontaneously become aware of, and do you think you might be able to become aware of it?

(Things that I have found that have helped myself in the past: focusing on and journalling out the negative emotions that I can feel, especially fear and resentment. It's not a direct solution though. It was just a START.)

4) Could you explain this pelvic floor issue a bit more? What is the exact problem? Is it like a muscle pain thing? To what degree do you think that it might be connected to your emotional issues? (I might have more thoughts on this one too, but I don't want to make assumptions.)

Hey, thanks for you response!

1) I feel passionate when I hear music that hits me the right way. All the music I like work in different ways for me, some are special, require the right setting or moment. Others can be played any time or when I feel the need for that type of genre or song. I listen daily, but don't overindulge. The special ones I listen to rarely, so they don't loose their magic.
Sometimes I get inspired by seeing a movie, reading a book or listening to someone. I think it boils down to when it's about a way of life, or someone that's admirable or jumps out to me for different reasons. Sometimes they make me think "hey, let me go and do this as well, or something similar"  but the next day it may be something I'm not be interested in at all anymore.

 

2) When I look back at my childhood I think about it sort of neutral. I remember some fun things, the laughs and the joy and excitement about events coming up or games we used to play. I used to also get bullied as a kid (being kinda chubby), something I obviously didn't like at the time. I remember at a certain point saying "you can say whatever you want to me, it doesn't do anything anymore". Looking back at these moments where I got bullied or attacked, i can't even associate with it really, I don't really crawl into my skin at the time, but moreso think of it as how I'm now.
There aren't specific memories that make feel bad or good from childhood really. They aren't a state-changer so to say. My association with my childhood, challenges and experiences in life, I don't resent any of it, because it also got me to where I'm at now mentally. I see them more as opportunities in a sense, or things that help me shape myself and grow.

The whole "safe-enough" type of thing I learned over the last year, is something I think I can work on. My levels of expression, like even singing in the car alone (which I didn't do), I'd feel like "what if people would see me". Being joyful, or happy, or some sort of expression of good feelings, would seem like it'd trigger a "wtf" or a question for the reason of it to the people around me. Basically, it's an association with doing something weird for me (I know this could be a big reason ^^)

My upbringing was good, parents were very present, healthy relationships and behavior I'd say. They are very rational though (and so am I now as well lol), and I remember that for example anger didn't really have a place. Being silly or weird would often either jokingly or seriously be followed with a "act normal" type of thing. The emotional experiences I'm looking for today I didn't see much as I grew up, humor had/has a big place and there was a bit of expression with music in terms of a bit of singing or whistling to the music. Last two are very important to me as well, although I don't whistle or sing much . Overall, reserved, rational, calm, "living from the head" and... "normal" (define normal huh...).

 

3) I'd say I'm very aware of my negative emotions, and most of the time I'm not associated with them. I feel and experience them, but I can notice them, observe them and figure out why do I feel this way, what caused them. I don't act upon those feelings, although I might respond more sharply or annoyed at times.
I deal with them by distraction (for example on the pc), listening to music, eating, maybe try to play some guitar. Waiting or trying to gather more information. I tend to turn to myself though, be alone.

 

4) I'll try my best to explain this pelvic floor thing (TMI incoming :D). Around 6-7 years ago I started all of a sudden have really high need to go pee. I'd go and get back to my desk and sit down. Almost immediately I had about the same intensity of needing to go again. I'd easily go +12x at work alone. It'd feel as though it'd already run down my legs, and I did my hardest to hold it in. (imagine drinking A LOT and driving in a car over speed bumps while you desperately need to go) This turned into also feeling sick in my stomach, like I'd carry a plastic bag in my backpack because I felt like I could maybe vomit at some point. It'd basically control my life in a way, I didn't want to go out, go to the city, store, friends places, new places etc. I liked having a toilet near. I'd sit at home, I finished my first studies somehow and quit about two or three months into my new one. Sat at home trying to wait or find a way until it was resolved.
Eventually after many doctors visits, even a surgery where they checked on stuff, lots of tests and what not, it turned out to "pelvic floor hypertension" or something, I think. I had to go to pelvic floor physical therapy, got some exercises but it never resolved completely. However, one day I was doing some breathing exercise and for some reason everything felt to relax. I explain this as imagine having your shoulders up your ears for years and all of a sudden they relax back in their normal position. I felt freedom in my belly, relaxed muscles in my legs, pelvic floor, belly, like I wasn't trying to hold my pee again. I remember thinking "oh, now this feels more easy and how it's supposed to".
Well, when I eventually went to bed and woke up, it was all back like it was those 6-7 years and I haven't been able to replicate it. Tried all the exercises, many different physical therapies and what not. But got that same release or close to it.
Nowadays I have the symptoms under control, their intensity is like 20-30% of what it was. I know all the signals aren't as desperate as they seem, many of them increased by my focus and worry on them and I stopped doing that. I go and do whatever I want. I can work full time and when symptoms flare up I manage them.
The reason I think this thing might be associated to my question about emotions is this random thought: Maybe those positive emotions don't have the freedom to roam my body as there might be a lock of muscles somewhere. Maybe there is this physical thing that makes it difficult or "impossible" to experience those physical sensations due to the tension there.

I like to say that all throughout those 6-7 years my focus was on resolving this issue. No victim mentality at all, just something I wanted to solve. It even brought to self development, learned sooooo much and exposed myself to so many new things and ways of thinking. It's sort of a blessing in a curse, or whatever the saying is.

 

Another bible verse, but I hope this clears up your questions and if you want to know more please let me know

Have a nice day!

[diamondpenguin]

@Mjolnir That's deep men, maybe because what you talk about is what society values in you, not what makes you feel happy. I would say, go back to when you were a child, and think about what made you happy as a child. Then go back to those things that made you happy as a child. If that don't work, then you might have a chemical imbalance in your cerebral(brain).