Your thoughts on marriage

[something_else]

Baby I love you so much I need the government to force us to stay together forever <3

[Random witch]

I think that people should do as they like.

The problem is that getting married is a social norm that planted in our culture so deeply, many people think that this is what they want because they brainwashed into it.

I don't have an opinion about marriage, I don't know if I want it or need it, I can't imagine myself being a 'wife' of someone. 

 

[Emotionalmosquito]

4 hours ago, something_else said:

Baby I love you so much I need the government to force us to stay together forever <3

Nothing says I love you like an overvalued rock mined by the blood sweat and tears of African slave labor. 

[Bando]

Hedge your bets wisley there's nothing wrong with long term relationships but as others on this thread said try to not get the government involved in your marriage. You can have ceremonies without getting the legal documentation. 

The problem is very few women will be ok with getting married without the gov involved for security reasons, which is why we return to protecting your downside.

Make sure you understand female nature so you can spot toxic women, understand prenuptials, understand how the courtroom works in case there's custody battles ect and make sure the woman you want to marry can be a great mother to your kids. You should properly vet a woman at least a 6 months to 1year before considering entering a LTR. There's so many more checklists you should understand but these are the basics to get you thinking. 

[Harlen Kelly]

@SgtPepper It's actually very simple, women initiate 69% of all divorces; for college-educated women, the rate jumps to nearly 90% (which if you are college-educated yourself, you will want to have an equally educated partner). 

Given those statistics and the numerous downsides of a possible divorce, involving the government in your relationship seems quite irrational and counterproductive if you are a man. 

The ''typical'' nuclear family with a housewife is a bygone reality that is not particularly prevalent in developed nations anymore which is great. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[zazen]

Men have a lot more to lose in marriage so don't initiate divorce (women do 70%). For this reason men are less likely to get married seeing/hearing the previous generations divorce stories and weighing up the cost/risk. To add to that, men get sex and relationships without committing to marriage. 

If theres no incentives for couples to stay together ie marriage dis-incentivises men to leave as they lose out a lot (yet women still do being more emotionally driven and having the gain of custody, alimony, assets etc) then what else will help couples stay together in raising children. Children need a stable family home to be raised in a healthy manner, in the past in tight communities the tribe raised the children but we don't have that any more in our isolated big rat race cities. No more nuclear family = unstable children = unstable society? 

Chemistry now trumps character in relationships. The chemistry that brings people together doesn't last usually, and lacking character people don't stick around for the sake of children, family society. In smart startups they hire traits over skills, as traits are imbued in a person and skills can be learned, where as to have a skill full person with bad traits can cause issues in the company. In the same way, character outlasts chemistry. Not to say chemistry isn't important, but it is an art to maintain chemistry long term. 

In our more selfish consumerist society we value the short term feeling of chemistry, and what makes us feel alive ( the getting to know stage of a new romantic partner, or honeymoon phase ) and the consumerist shopping mentality is exported to dating and continuos shopping for the next best thing (partner). In order to stay together, people need to do be spiritually developed / self actualised to the point they are able to feel alive themselves, and so can stay in relationships long term more easily as biology only makes us feel alive to the point of pro-creation, thereafter the sexual spark that drew to humans together starts to dip, along with the many other factors of raising the kids, tiredness etc. 

 

@Harlen Kelly

 

The nuclear family had its flaws, but it was functional to a extent, whats the alternative for a healthier society in particular for raising kids.. conscious relationships..I'm trying to figure it out myself also.

Edited November 10, 2021 by zazen

[something_else]

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Nothing says I love you like an overvalued rock mined by the blood sweat and tears of African slave labor. 

Brilliant 

[Nahm]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:14 PM, Elton said:

What are your thoughts on marriage..

As a kid I always wanted to get married and start a family of my own... but after Actualized.org I decided to get married after 30 because I felt it was a logical thing to go and j must go chase sex before I get married so that later in life I don't feel i missed out.

I'm 30 now and want to marry by next year.

But I'm scared to death... what if things don't work out, what if j want to divorce later, what if I'm not happily married...

Would like to hear your views ...

It’s like anything else. If that’s your vibration presently, that’s your experience presently. Married or not isn’t the variable. Acknowledge the rumination by recognizing how far ahead of things you’re thinkin. Enjoy now, feel the excitement of what you desire materializing now. Notice that it is. Note, or recognize, know, the feeling of excitement & the emotion of eagerness.  

Make a dreamboard in the present to attract the significant other you want in this present.

Use the emotional scale to understand the emotions you are experiencing, and how letting go is the key to conscious manifestation, aka, allowing & receiving what you already know you want. 

Meditate every morning to address the rumination. Careful with employing ‘miss out’ valuation thinking / believing, as it makes it more difficult to understand emotions. Sort of a smokescreen of thought attachment, in believing a comparison is being made between direct experience and what is only a thought or concept. Likewise, projections of loss, compromise, etc. Someone could just as easily get married young and in hindsight see what they would’ve missed out on had they waited. The point isn’t an advise to do one or the other, but to be present & to know what you want and to get ready to receive it. 

With emotional & mental equanimity, and creating a dreamboard together, you can experience whatever you(s) want. 

If you’re scared of death, inspect the thoughts, question what it is you’re worrying about and why, and again use the scale to understand the emotion of worry, and to understand why scared is not an emotion. 

If things don’t work out, if you’re not happily married, it won’t be for different reasons, it’ll be because that’s what you’re focusing on & believing, because of what you’re unwilling to let go of. If you find yourself in such an experience, make two lists together on the back of your joint dreamboard: what we don’t want, and what we do want. Then erase the unwanted list, focus together (effortless) and thus consciously create, what you do want. 

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

It’s like anything else. If that’s your vibration presently, that’s your experience presently. Married or not isn’t the variable. Acknowledge the rumination by recognizing how far ahead of things you’re thinkin. Enjoy now, feel the excitement of what you desire materializing now. Notice that it is. Note, or recognize, know, the feeling of excitement & the emotion of eagerness.  

Make a dreamboard in the present to attract the significant other you want in this present.

Use the emotional scale to understand the emotions you are experiencing, and how letting go is the key to conscious manifestation, aka, allowing & receiving what you already know you want. 

Meditate every morning to address the rumination. Careful with employing ‘miss out’ valuation thinking / believing, as it makes it more difficult to understand emotions. Sort of a smokescreen of thought attachment, in believing a comparison is being made between direct experience and what is only a thought or concept. Likewise, projections of loss, compromise, etc. Someone could just as easily get married young and in hindsight see what they would’ve missed out on had they waited. The point isn’t an advise to do one or the other, but to be present & to know what you want and to get ready to receive it. 

With emotional & mental equanimity, and creating a dreamboard together, you can experience whatever you(s) want. 

If you’re scared of death, inspect the thoughts, question what it is you’re worrying about and why, and again use the scale to understand the emotion of worry, and to understand why scared is not an emotion. 

If things don’t work out, if you’re not happily married, it won’t be for different reasons, it’ll be because that’s what you’re focusing on & believing, because of what you’re unwilling to let go of. If you find yourself in such an experience, make two lists together on the back of your joint dreamboard: what we don’t want, and what we do want. Then erase the unwanted list, focus together (effortless) and thus consciously create, what you do want. 

Any advice on acknowledging the "animal" side of me and balancing it and integrating it into my relationship with my girlfriend? I love her deeply and I want to be with her. The thing is there is part of me that holds back sometimes from loving her fully, still wants sexual experiences with other beautiful women, the feeling of the freedom of not being committed in a relationship, etc. My main focus is the deep love for my girlfriend and I want to focus on this more but the other side feels neglected when I do and it pulls me away sometimes. How can I resolve this? 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

Any advice on acknowledging the "animal" side of me and balancing it and integrating it into my relationship with my girlfriend? I love her deeply and I want to be with her. The thing is there is part of me that holds back sometimes from loving her fully, still wants sexual experiences with other beautiful women, the feeling of the freedom of not being committed in a relationship, etc. My main focus is the deep love for my girlfriend and I want to focus on this more but the other side feels neglected when I do and it pulls me away sometimes.

Sounds like you want an open relationship. There’s billions of options. She might be ideal, but you won’t know unless you express and communicate what you want, and allow her to do the same. In any case, only then you’ll know, and she’ll know, and you’ll no longer experience the discordant thoughts, emotional suppression and the veiling via fragmentation of ‘sides’, ‘parts’, ‘neglect’, and ‘it pulling you away’, etc. None of that is any more than the thoughts and rumination of a discordant conscience. Honesty is the way to knowing more acutely what you really want. Not playing games with yourself and or her. If she is loving you and placating you while what she is really wanting is to sleep with other guys, wouldn’t it be decent of her to be honest with you? To not lead you on, manipulate you with dishonesty? Would it feel aligned to afford her the same honesty and respect that you so badly desire to give to yourself so to speak? 

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

How can I resolve this? 

The recognition there’s no problem. You’re focusing on what you don’t want; “not being…”… blah blah blah, whatever. Exactly like you - no one cares about what you don’t want. Not her, not me, not even you, and certainly not source. Nothing changes or is created in your focusing on what you don’t want. By focusing on what you do want, and understanding the emotions you are experiencing, you can most definitely have what you want. It might not however, be what she wants. Find out. Also, you haven’t experienced a ‘committed relationship’ yet. When you falsely believe you have, and thus are making a comparison, notice it’s all projection. It’s an idea, and not the actual experience. Maybe, that actual experience, is actually, what you want. Up to you to find out. 

A perspective I can offer, make of it what you will. There is a major difference generationally speaking in regard to sex. For me, around your age, it was impulse, and not a belief in need. Same impulse, just no justification and rationalization of it. Simply in sitting and relaxing, the impulse like any other comes & goes, and one is free of it. It still comes & goes, but is experienced as such. Not as a need.  In the current online marketing culture, you are being sold the concept that sex is a need, by people who make money being the answer to fulfilling that need. Some of these teachers are knowing they are being dishonest, and some of them are yet to explore and release the conditioning, such that they can’t sit and relax for ten minutes and see that impulse comes & goes. If you want to, you can experience that for yourself, and see how incredibly easy and simple this matter really is. 

 

[Lyubov]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Sounds like you want an open relationship. There’s billions of options. She might be ideal, but you won’t know unless you express and communicate what you want, and allow her to do the same. In any case, only then you’ll know, and she’ll know, and you’ll no longer experience the discordant thoughts, emotional suppression and the veiling via fragmentation of ‘sides’, ‘parts’, ‘neglect’, and ‘it pulling you away’, etc. None of that is any more than the thoughts and rumination of a discordant conscience. Honesty is the way to knowing more acutely what you really want. Not playing games with yourself and or her. If she is loving you and placating you while what she is really wanting is to sleep with other guys, wouldn’t it be decent of her to be honest with you? To not lead you on, manipulate you with dishonesty? Would it feel aligned to afford her the same honesty and respect that you so badly desire to give to yourself so to speak? 

Well, I'm not sure I would go so far as to say I want that. In a way, I do a bit. Let me explain. I sometimes just desire other beautiful women I see and meet, they look so good and I just want sex with them. The thing is I wouldn't want an open relationship to fulfill this desire if she would be hurt by it or if it would mean the end of what we have. I very much want to go deeper with her. Our love and working towards communion is more important than that and I value that more. I would be willing to compromise on these desires if it means a deeper union with her, but they are still there to a degree. The sex with her gets better the more intimate we get so in a way I do mostly feel fulfilled sexually and we are always reaching new levels so I love that. I just have a lot of angsty desires still, the feeling of freedom and wanting to be with more beautiful women. I absolutely would not want any other guys having her. No way, it's out of the question for me. So I realize I may need to compromise if I want to fulfill a deeper desire I have which is being only with her. Also keep in mind I don't have this open relationship thing with her so if I was actually given the green light to have this I'm not sure I would even like it. I just have desires for other beautiful women still but I love my girlfriend and want a deeper monogamous relationship with her as well. 

Quote

A perspective I can offer, make of it what you will. There is a major difference generationally speaking in regard to sex. For me, around your age, it was impulse, and not a belief in need. Same impulse, just no justification and rationalization of it. Simply in sitting and relaxing, the impulse like any other comes & goes, and one is free of it. It still comes & goes, but is experienced as such. Not as a need.  In the current online marketing culture, you are being sold the concept that sex is a need, by people who make money being the answer to fulfilling that need. Some of these teachers are knowing they are being dishonest, and some of them are yet to explore and release the conditioning, such that they can’t sit and relax for ten minutes and see that impulse comes & goes. If you want to, you can experience that for yourself, and see how incredibly easy and simple this matter really is. 

Hmm, interesting perspective. I see what you mean. I don't feel I want to sleep with other women when I'm with her. My sex life is absolutely fantastic and it just keeps getting better and better with her. It mostly just arrises on days we don't see each other and I have sex on my mind all day. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Lyubov

[Nahm]

25 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Well, I'm not sure I would go so far as to say I want that. In a way, I do a bit. Let me explain. I sometimes just desire other beautiful women I see and meet, they look so good and I just want sex with them. The thing is I wouldn't want an open relationship to fulfill this desire if she would be hurt by it or if it would mean the end of what we have. I very much want to go deeper with her. Our love and working towards communion is more important than that and I value that more. I would be willing to compromise on these desires if it means a deeper union with her, but they are still there to a degree.

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting a compromise with her. I’m suggesting honestly, expression & communication. 

25 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

The sex with her gets better the more intimate we get so in a way I do mostly feel fulfilled sexually and we are always reaching new levels so I love that. I just have a lot of angsty desires still, the feeling of freedom and wanting to be with more beautiful women. I absolutely would not want any other guys having her. No way, it's out of the question for me. So I realize I may need to compromise if I want to fulfill a deeper desire I have which is being only with her. Also keep in mind I don't have this open relationship thing with her so if I was actually given the green light to have this I'm not sure I would even like it. I just have desires for other beautiful women still but I love my girlfriend and want a deeper monogamous relationship with her as well. 

“Angsty desires” is a conceptual cover up, aversion, like “feeling of freedom”. You’re already free, and will remain free, in any and all cases. The concept of ‘being with who you want to be with = not being free’ is misleading. You’re free to be with her or not. That’s not gonna change. 

[Nahm]

33 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Hmm, interesting perspective. I see what you mean. I don't feel I want to sleep with other women when I'm with her. My sex life is absolutely fantastic and it just keeps getting better and better with her. It mostly just arrises on days we don't see each other and I have sex on my mind all day. 

It’s a terrible master. 

[mandyjw]

Funny that most of us close our eyes during the best parts of sex, but looks are so fucking important. Fucking important. Ha! 

[Tancrede Pouyat]

I'm not against marriage. But I am never getting married. The lifelong commitment isn't worth it to me.

[Average Investor]

On 11/7/2021 at 8:14 PM, Elton said:

I'm 30 now and want to marry by next year.

Don't rush into that just because you hit some certain age. Wait for the right opportunity to present itself. You don't want to rush into something and lock yourself down with someone like that. Let things happen naturally and really ponder what is best for you in life. 

What would be wrong if you married at 38?

[egoeimai]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:51 AM, something_else said:

Baby I love you so much I need the government to force us to stay together forever <3

Hahahahahahaha

[Elton]

On 08/11/2021 at 11:34 AM, egoeimai said:

Baby,they say marriage kills everything in a relationship. How would you know? You can try! Hahaha.

So what if you divorce later? 

@egoeimai good idea baby i think I must try

[Torch_Lighter369]

@Elton  Here's a perspective you ought to consider.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ocbZhRQS9I

If the link didn't work for you, that was a clip of one of Osho's words. Just know Marriage is a faulty institution that shouldn't exist anymore, because creating and maintaining families is an extremely individualistic concept in the first place, which Stage Blue and Stage Orange Individuals, whom are either deeply religious or materialistic, focus the family's being within themselves. Also, these ideas have been invented by religions and organizations, by those who don't appreciate inner peace, love, freedom, and harmony between all human beings, but do value submission, security, order, safety, and overall oppression of human expression.

It is fundamentally flawed for two parents to raise a child alone, without a community much less with them being the sole caretakers. Yet, this is common all over the world, especially in America, where I'm form, even in suburban neighborhoods. As Osho said in the video, it is the center of all superstitions and issues in society. While It's true a child needs to know who his mother and father are, and they also need strong male and/or female role models to understand how these things work in society, whether from a perspective for boys or girls, it is also true that when a child is exposed to a diverse and supportive community of people and lives under their care for their developmentally important childhood, they learn more about the world around them, and are more prepared to live life to the fullest.

A lot of people in this thread have listed out the very real legal problems with marriage that exists mainly for men, but the problem goes even deeper than that, because children need a community more than they need parents. If there is no substantial community, the child will be socially underdeveloped, and have a focus more on self-preservation, survival, and material success, than on being the best person he or she can be for themselves and others. When surrounded by a group of people who know how to live and thrive in society, and know how to show children how to act and behave and all of them are working together in this community harmoniously, not to mention kids their age, there is great potential for Love and Consciousness to flourish, and happier arrangements of Love and Sex between men and women. 

Again, as Osho said, the Community should raise the children, not the parents. They're happier, self-sufficient, and well-rounded and far less neurotic people this way, and there are not many communities like this in America, where I live. But they do exist, and you can create or join them. You can look up co-housing communities, Intentional Communities, and/or communes, they all kind of function in this similar way.

And think of how liberated the parents will be. In marriage, people sacrifice a lot of aspects of themselves, and this doesn't have to be. People can be happy and free, even after having children of their own. They still have maybe some financial responsibility in conjunction with the community(pooling the financial well-being of the child), as well as perhaps being one voice of reason in the pool of the community the child will have in living in the community, but at the same time, there is a release of a lot of the tension and indoctrination that was previously present when parents were to take on roles, and never love anybody other than their wives or husbands. Imagine being free of those things which were put in place by people you don't even know, to love others instead of wondering how neurotic you think you are by thinking about how someone else looks attractive while you have sex with someone you're married to.

This is a fundamental issue of humanity that should be addressed, because both men and women tire of their partners, tiring over and over to recreate the "Moment" or the "Magic." For most people, this falls through, which is all the more reason that men and women should get together temporarily to bring children into the world, but not get into marital contracts to do so, so that they can retain the idea of what i like to call "Romantic and/or Communal Agency" Having children with other members of the same community, even incorporating others in the process with new lovers (sparsely, of course, keeping a reasonable standard to not to go haywire and make the community too big) into this community. Marriage and prostitution/whoredom exist as extreme opposites to the moderate position that is Romantic agency, where love can blossom for all people, even if just for a day or month, or two months, or just during the pregnancy if that were to come to be.

You could think of it as a reflection of nature with conscious integration of humanity. A lot of animal species are known to have natural communities, where females have the babies of more than one male and males have multiple partners in a breeding season, Here is a list of animals are polygynandrous ( https://animalia.bio/polygynandry?page=1 ) . You have animals that mate for life, but you also have animals that are loving to many members of their community and species. You have mates who love each other, but not chained to one another either, and this is overall a good thing, because when a system works this way, communities of common interest are formed, and are naturally strengthened and supported by people who can agree on what should be done in a community.

Life will be better when relationships becomes far more decentralized in this way for communities to flourish without legal tyranny of the Family courts with divorce and marriage); when you're loving/making love to someone only for the time you are in love(whether that's 6 months mutually, or for life by choice), and offering the community you live in  new loving members to embrace and help develop into a kind human being after the flash of the pan of a soul-bond is passed on for more soul-bonding experiences, which enriches your life, as Osho mentions. That is spreading happiness and love to all people, fulfilling your instinctual needs, and not worrying about how hard life has to be, or who has to pay for what, when the community(the family of people who love and respect you even if not related to you by blood), come together and all collectively harmonize and combine their valuable resources as a group of kind and conscious individuals who strive to see other human beings they have deep, emotional bonds with, flourish and flow, especially of those who belong to their group they take care of, but are also kind to outsiders.

Say what you want about the cult that surrounded him, but Osho himself was a sage for thinking of the basis of these solutions to human relations. 

If you see this Leo, Thanks for everything that you do, and this forum.