Selfishness and Selflessness - Levels or Forms?

[Gesundheit2]

Does either selfishness or selflessness actually increase or decrease? Or do they only change forms? Or is it both?

In my purest and most selfless moments, I still could experience a selfish core in my being. It's becoming hard for me to say that at a certain moment I was more selfless/less selfish than at another moment. I would describe selflessness merely as a more focused sense of self and identity compared to the regular egoic sense of self. Although, the opposite description might be correct, too. The selfish core is always still there, even though it feels less apparent at times.

A more down to earth example would be the following question:

Is a compassionate person actually more selfless/less selfish than a person who is conventionally labeled "selfish"?

After all, the compassionate person is only being compassionate because that's what feels best for them. If it didn't feel good, I doubt they would still remain that way. And the same applies to the "selfish" person. They are only being selfish because that's what feels best for them. At least that's probably what they think.

Can we reduce everything down to these simple variables? Are there more things going on under the hood?

Edited November 6, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Vincent S]

Very interesting question ✨

I’m pondering that as well. But I am also pondering the question: What happens if we remove the duality between selfishness and selflessness. What is actually left then? Is it all the same?

Edited November 8, 2021 by Vincent S

[WelcometoReality]

@Gesundheit2 If the aim is waking up then acting selfless or selfish is just a distraction in my opinion.

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

After all, the compassionate person is only being compassionate because that's what feels best for them. If it didn't feel good, I doubt they would still remain that way. And the same applies to the "selfish" person. They are only being selfish because that's what feels best for them. At least that's probably what they think.

That assumes that all people act based on wanting to feel good which probably is true for most people. The human body is conditioned to stay away from feeling bad and to embrace feeling good.

Truth is facing the bad feelings all the way.

[Breakingthewall]

there is true altruism, that is, doing something because it is what should be done, regardless of how you are going to feel. the same as true selfishness, which is doing things that make you feel bad, such as mistreating others, addictions

[Mu_]

On 11/6/2021 at 3:40 AM, Gesundheit2 said:

Does either selfishness or selflessness actually increase or decrease? Or do they only change forms? Or is it both?

In my purest and most selfless moments, I still could experience a selfish core in my being. It's becoming hard for me to say that at a certain moment I was more selfless/less selfish than at another moment. I would describe selflessness merely as a more focused sense of self and identity compared to the regular egoic sense of self. Although, the opposite description might be correct, too. The selfish core is always still there, even though it feels less apparent at times.

A more down to earth example would be the following question:

Is a compassionate person actually more selfless/less selfish than a person who is conventionally labeled "selfish"?

After all, the compassionate person is only being compassionate because that's what feels best for them. If it didn't feel good, I doubt they would still remain that way. And the same applies to the "selfish" person. They are only being selfish because that's what feels best for them. At least that's probably what they think.

Can we reduce everything down to these simple variables? Are there more things going on under the hood?

This kinda a question is a question that makes sense from certain seeming presumptions.  One being that there is "someone" who could be anything at all.  If that is seen or considered, you may realize the question of selfish or not, does not make sense, since there is no one to be selfish or unselfish.  .  This is similar to what @Vincent S I think was getting to, by removing a duality line.

This kinda aha can also be seen when looking at such notions of what makes anything what it is?  Is something a something inherently with properties that are somehow inherently imbued, like God made an apple an apple, or words, or matter, or energy or all or neither.  Or is it something only by it given an opinion by a supposed "someone/something" that calls what they sense "apples, names, matter, energy".  Now of course, many critical thinkers can quickly see that if it comes from a someone/something then its not inherent, and thus what ever is being referred to as a "real thing" itself is just opinion perhaps from ones senses.  But if you then say ok, no this real something is inherent, then the hard question to tackle and prove is by who or what, and of course you have lots of people with "gods/or opinions" of what god thinks or made a particular something as or what makes this good and that bad, or this selfish and that unselfish (this also brings up the question, if god said its so, and it seems also gave other someone/somebodies the ability to also do the same, which is correct, is gods opinion the correct one?)

But of course if your honest, or atleast feel so, the question that may arise is, how do I solve this.....  Which of course if your clever, you may realize that this loop is unsolvable, since from your vantage point you don't know if there is a God to define inherent actuality, nor do you know if reality comes from senses or opinions.   maybe as your reading this, you don't even know if there is anyone making up questions or not, or if its just all happening like movie running and part of that running is experiencing it......

Again what makes anything anything?