Spiritual vs Material

[Master Shake]

I have been struggling with this in my life. I want to progress further towards turquoise and beyond but find myself liking the orange mindset of money, sex, and traveling the world (which I believe is my passion). To move higher up the spiritual system do I need to let go of these things? I saw the video "Burning through Karma" recently and it gave me the idea that I might be able to exhaust myself with this Orange mindset if I go ape shit with it for the next decade or so. 

[captainamerica]

39 minutes ago, Master Shake said:

To move higher up the spiritual system do I need to let go of these things.

No. There are many paths to the same end goal.

In fact, if you misunderstand healthy functioning then reaching enlightenment gets considerably more difficult. 

[captainamerica]

1 hour ago, Master Shake said:

I have been struggling with this in my life. I want to progress further towards turquoise and beyond but find myself liking the orange mindset of money, sex, and traveling the world (which I believe is my passion). To move higher up the spiritual system do I need to let go of these things? I saw the video "Burning through Karma" recently and it gave me the idea that I might be able to exhaust myself with this Orange mindset if I go ape shit with it for the next decade or so. 

SD is not compatible with this work. People who "successfully" use SD for this are the ones who already had enough knowledge to succeed without SD. SD just becomes a decoration then.

For eg, basically no human being just likes Money. 

To quote Jon Butcher.

"It is a medium of exchange – nothing more, nothing less. Money is an invention that allows us to trade the goods we create and the services we offer more easily. It is one of the most important inventions in the history of our species. Without money, civilization would not have been possible.

Money has two primary purposes, to standardize value so that people can trade things more easily, and to store value, so that people can save it to trade at a later date. And these two things are the foundation of the civilized world. In order to exchange goods and services, people used to have to barter. It was a clumsy economic system. Money changed that. It allowed people to turn their goods and services into coins. And since those coins were recognized as the "standard of value" by everyone, people could trade them for eggs, beef, pots, jewelry – anything they wanted in ONE STEP. It's a more efficient system. Money standardizes or equalizes value. It makes EVERYTHING worth X amount of the same thing. Money also allowed people to STORE value, which is huge. With money, people could turn their goods and services into coins and not only trade them for WHAT they wanted, but WHEN they wanted as well. They could wait a month, a year, or even pass the money onto my children. Money allowed people to SAVE for the first time.

They could save their productive accomplishments, their hard work. Money is STORED ENERGY. Your work, your sweat, your thinking, your talents are in those coins. Today we use paper money. In America we use dollars. Dollars are pieces of paper printed by the government. By themselves, they are worthless. You can't eat them, you can't live in them – you can't do anything with them other than what it was invented for – trade products and services. It not the dollars themselves that have worth – it is only "what dollars represent".

The goods and services that people produce. With money, people can easily exchange their work, talents and skills – the very best that is inside of themselves for the best that is inside of others. Money is quite literally a symbol of human productivity and achievement. It represents all the things that we create for each other. We trade our work for money, which we then use to trade for the work of other people. Steven Spielberg's work is to make movies. And the rest of us go to work, trading our various talents for money, then we trade a small part of what we have earned to Steven Spielberg’s company, so we can enjoy an evenings entertainment. The value Bill Gates has created is software that has changed the way people live. He is wealthy because he has positively affected the lives of literally billions of people in a profound way. A doctor a teacher a lawyer, a janitor – they all provide valuable services to other people. They exchange those valuable services for money, so they can acquire the valuable services of others. We trade our work for money, and the better we are at what we do – the more valuable we become to others – the more money you can trade your work for. Money is a SYMBOL of the best that people have to offer each other.

Do I love money? If you mean do I love little green pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on them, the answer is "no, not really". But if you mean do I love what money represents, what it means and what it can do – the answer is "absolutely". Anyone who has "collecting dollars" at the center of their life's aspirations is way missing the point. If you want to enrich yourself, stop concentrating on those pieces of paper and start concentrating on the value that you can contribute to the people around you."

SD will not teach you this. And using SD for personal development is not productive or useful. Plus Leo's interpretation is especially not that useful for personal development. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

6 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

SD will not teach you this. And using SD for personal development is not productive or useful. Plus Leo's interpretation is especially not that useful for personal development. 

It may also create negative beliefs hurting your personal growth. 

I, for eg., had to use some of the most extreme negative and positive visualizations/affirmations in order to get rid of such negative beliefs along with other self-actualization work for years. Better not to get in this trap. Takes a lot of work to offset.  

If you are looking to map the social matrix for the purpose of Personal Development I like Vishen Lakhiani's approach the most. He explains it in the most pragmatic way. Even high schoolers can learn his approach and be able to use it in their lives and get better results than SD for personal development. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by captainamerica

[d i e g o]

6 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

It may also create negative beliefs hurting your personal growth. 

I, for eg., had to use some of the most extreme negative and positive visualizations/affirmations in order to get rid of such negative beliefs along with other self-actualization work for years. Better not to get in this trap. Takes a lot of work to offset.  

If you are looking to map the social matrix for the purpose of Personal Development I like Vishen Lakhiani's approach the most. He explains it in the most pragmatic way. Even high schoolers can learn his approach and be able to use it in their lives and get better results than SD for personal development. 

Hi there,

thanks for quoting the essay on money, I want to add to it. I have recently discovered that there is a whole class of people I can trade "attention" with. They are called Entrepreneurs. I managed to get a whole website created for me just in exchange for getting featured in a podcast I recently aired. This made me rethink money and also see other assets as tradeable, such as "attention by other people". My next step was to look for other entities, mainly companies, whom I could trade with and found that we all possessed different types of attention that also were of different quality.

An example: Is the attention somebody pays to a podcast worth the the same that somebody pays to an article in this forum? Also: What intention lies behind the attention. Wanting to learn, wanting to buy, wanting to get entertained, boredom - stuff like that. This gets very hard to quantify. Another factor comes in. My attention is tied to the topic of wine industry. Of what use is it for someone making a living by selling kids toys? None. This kind of understanding process went on for some days when I came to quite similar conclusions as in your essay and I want to add to it. Money is standardised, yes - but in no means it is the most efficient way of exchange. But it gets necessary when the other assets dont match so easily or the negotiating parties cannot agree on the value projected on the assets.

when I trade my "attention" for a website, this is way cheaper for me then when i had to first translate my attention into money and then pay let's say 10k [€] for the very same service. So while money is usefull when it comes to exchange between very different fields of profession and goods, it is at the same time extremely inconvenient and expensive when trading in a more related field of business. Also it seems to me to be more useful for "common folks" who live a non entrepreneurial lifestyle und thus have nothing to offer to get access to "swap" deals like the one I described above. After I discovered this, my whole attention switched from creating cashflow to creating "attentionflow" and finding efiicient ways to translate it into assets or if no better option: money. And I guess that this is exactly the understanding, which is meant by "focusing on the value you can contribute".

I do not mean to brag, please do not get me wrong. I rather try to describe the process of understanding how fucking true the discription of money, you shared, actually is and how it can look like to "awaken" to this truth.

 

Next topic:

You drop some harsh critics on Leo SD interpretation without any explanation. I for example found it very usefull to my personal growth in terms of giving me context to understand my behavior and my needs that i was in constant inner battle with. Would you please get more specific on your criticism and maybe also provide some links to the material you consider more useful? That would be of much value to me and others too, I suppose.

 

thanks 

[captainamerica]

 

18 minutes ago, d i e g o said:

Hi there,

thanks for quoting the essay on money, I want to add to it. I have recently discovered that there is a whole class of people I can trade "attention" with. They are called Entrepreneurs. I managed to get a whole website created for me just in exchange for getting featured in a podcast I recently aired. This made me rethink money and also see other assets as tradeable, such as "attention by other people". My next step was to look for other entities, mainly companies, whom I could trade with and found that we all possessed different types of attention that also were of different quality.

An example: Is the attention somebody pays to a podcast worth the the same that somebody pays to an article in this forum? Also: What intention lies behind the attention. Wanting to learn, wanting to buy, wanting to get entertained, boredom - stuff like that. This gets very hard to quantify. Another factor comes in. My attention is tied to the topic of wine industry. Of what use is it for someone making a living by selling kids toys? None. This kind of understanding process went on for some days when I came to quite similar conclusions as in your essay and I want to add to it. Money is standardised, yes - but in no means it is the most efficient way of exchange. But it gets necessary when the other assets dont match so easily or the negotiating parties cannot agree on the value projected on the assets.

when I trade my "attention" for a website, this is way cheaper for me then when i had to first translate my attention into money and then pay let's say 10k [€] for the very same service. So while money is usefull when it comes to exchange between very different fields of profession and goods, it is at the same time extremely inconvenient and expensive when trading in a more related field of business. Also it seems to me to be more useful for "common folks" who live a non entrepreneurial lifestyle und thus have nothing to offer to get access to "swap" deals like the one I described above. After I discovered this, my whole attention switched from creating cashflow to creating "attentionflow" and finding efiicient ways to translate it into assets or if no better option: money. And I guess that this is exactly the understanding, which is meant by "focusing on the value you can contribute".

I do not mean to brag, please do not get me wrong. I rather try to describe the process of understanding how fucking true the discription of money, you shared, actually is and how it can look like to "awaken" to this truth.

 

Next topic:

You drop some harsh critics on Leo SD interpretation without any explanation. I for example found it very usefull to my personal growth in terms of giving me context to understand my behavior and my needs that i was in constant inner battle with. Would you please get more specific on your criticism and maybe also provide some links to the material you consider more useful? That would be of much value to me and others too, I suppose.

 

thanks 

I am not sure what you are trying to say. 

As for your kind request at the end, please learn to communicate like adults and not like 4-year-olds throwing tantrums when they need something or want to say something.

Edited November 6, 2021 by captainamerica

[captainamerica]

3 hours ago, captainamerica said:

No. There are many paths to the same end goal.

In fact, if you misunderstand healthy functioning then reaching enlightenment gets considerably more difficult. 

For eg. Leo still likes Sex and Porn. You might have seen it on the forum. 

So not necessarily letting go of these. 

The point is not to do different things but to do things differently. It is cliche but true. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by captainamerica

[mandyjw]

There is no battle between spiritual and material, hence the beauty of nature. The materialism paradigm is what created the very idea of separation, it is what demonizes itself.