People without mental imagery

[How to be wise]

I wonder if these people can be classified as enlightened, or in a permanent state of no-mind. Since they have no thoughts, what other tools can the ego use to control them.

 

[Galyna]

From what I have read, it does not relate to Enlightenment.

It is a deviation from the norm. It can affect a lot of areas of your life, including loss of memory, it heavily impacts your cognitive abilities.

I would not want to have this. You can also develop this condition during the life course. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Galyna

[Inception]

I have aphantasia, i.e no images or mind’s eye; just blackness, like standing in a dark room. It may have developed as a defense mechanism against childhood trauma. 

It properly plays part in my poor memory, and I definitely relate to getting quickly over things. I also suspect it relates to my general lack of dreams.

From a spiritual perspective you might call it a blockage of the third eye (chakra), which my constant headache supports. Scientifically it might be related to the pineal gland.

Doing spiritual work has improved my mind’s eye, and so now I can now vaguely “see” things.

59 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I wonder if these people can be classified as enlightened, or in a permanent state of no-mind. Since they have no thoughts, what other tools can the ego use to control them.

Trust me, there can be very much mind and thoughts, just no images.

[Mason Riggle]

@Inception interesting. If I say, 'pink elephant', that doesn't conjure up any image in your mind of a pink elephant? 

[Inception]

17 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

Interesting. If I say, 'pink elephant', that doesn't conjure up any image in your mind of a pink elephant? 

None at all. I couldn’t imagine seeing something which isn’t actually there.

I mean, when you see the elephant, where is it? What’s the background? Is it still, or does it move?

When you go from imagining the pink elephant, to say a green lion, how does it change? Does it like morph into the lion, shapeshifter style?

 

[Mason Riggle]

9 minutes ago, Inception said:

I mean, when you see the elephant, where is it? What’s the background? Is it still, or does it move?

 

Good questions. It's hard to say 'where' it is. For me, when I pictured a pink elephant, there was no background, but there could be one if I imagine there to be one. 

When you close your eyes, and hear a noise, where does 'the sound' appear for you? Does it seem 'internal' or 'external'? 

Can you hear the song, 'happy birthday too you' if you 'sing it to yourself'? Can you 'sing to yourself in your mind'? (I think most people can)  If so, where is the song?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Inception]

2 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

Good questions. It's hard to say 'where' it is. For me, when I pictured a pink elephant, there was no background, but there could be one if I imagine there to be one. 

I can’t understand how you can imagine the elephant without a background. There has to be something, right? Even if that something is just black.

20 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

When you close your eyes, and hear a noise, where does 'the sound' appear for you? Does it seem 'internal' or 'external'? 

Can you hear the song, 'happy birthday too you' if you 'sing it to yourself'?  If so, where is the song?

I have spatial ability, i.e a 3D representation of “the world”, of which my head is the center. The sounds seems to be “located” within this 3D “map”, according to where they’re coming from in “space”.

[Mason Riggle]

@Inception but can you sing to yourself in your mind? 

And yeah, I suppose when I conjure up a mental image of a pink elephant, it's against a black background. 

When you 'look out at the world' through your eyes and see trees and the sky and buildings, for example, what is 'the background'?.  You're entire 'field of vision'.. what is the 'background' against which that appears? 

Can you locate 'the edges' of your visual field?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Inception]

36 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

But can you sing to yourself in your mind?

Yes, but of course it’s a lot quieter and more vague than if I “actually” sang. It seems to be coming from the “center”, i.e. in my head.

35 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

When you 'look out at the world' through your eyes and see trees and the sky and buildings, for example, what is 'the background'?.  You're entire 'field of vision'.. what is the 'background' against which that appears? 

I’m not sure what you mean. How can there be something behind my FOV? But I’d say that which can not be pointed to; Nothingness/Existence.

34 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

Can you locate 'the edges' of your visual field?

Yes, it looks like Ernst Mach’s self portrait. There’s something deeply disturbing about exploring this… I feel like I’m messing with the engine of reality.

[Mason Riggle]

1 hour ago, Inception said:

Yes, but of course it’s a lot quieter and more vague than if I “actually” sang. It seems to be coming from the “center”, i.e. in my head.

I’m not sure what you mean. How can there be something behind my FOV? But I’d say that which can not be pointed to; Nothingness/Existence.

ok, so the "center" of my mind is where I see the elephant. 

The 'background' of the elephant isn't clear to me, like the 'edges of my field of vision'. 

It's a faint and more vague elephant than if I actually saw one. 

[Leo Gura]

Cool, but has nothing to do with awakening.

[blankisomeone]

6 hours ago, How to be wise said:

what other tools can the ego use to control them.

emotions

attachment

distraction

pain

fear

impatience

Edited November 5, 2021 by blankisomeone

[aetheroar]

This brain has complete aphantasia (no sense data for any memory, all memory is concept based, blank mind) and while there is only this perspective to speak on, it has been incredibly helpful in awakening. For instance, once a bird flew by and just the thought “isn’t that cute” gave me a non-dual awakening where the conceptual format of the entire brain shifted permanently.

Because the conditioning is concept based in memory, once the memory was seen as conceptual with no real data, it was easy to see through that veil.

Had a running verbal dialogue with myself for 30 years and at the moment of this awakening it completely stopped and the mind has been silent since.

Here for any specific questions on how this effects awakening/life/etc.

Much love <3