The Cult Of Jehovas Witness

[Rilles]

Had no idea it was this bad.

[Leo Gura]

Of course it's a cult.

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course it's a cult.

I didnt know that, just thought it was a branch of Christianity. This is way crazier.

[Leo Gura]

There are plenty branches of Christianity which are horrible cults.

Evangelicals and others are also batshit delusional.

You could argue that most of Christianity is a cult.

[Rilles]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are plenty branches of Christianity which are horrible cults.

Evangelicals and others are also batshit delusional.

You could argue that most of Christianity is a cult.

Most of the Christians I met (I grew up in that environment) are pretty normal Stage Blue people, I wouldnt say all of it is a cult, maybe 50%, the rest are are normal people with very restrictive moral values who go to church on Sundays. 

[JuliusCaesar]

All human societal structures are basically cults. It's just that some are more obviously cult like than others.

[PepperBlossoms]

One of my bff's is part of the Jehovah group.

She says that when Jehovah is ready, there will be Heaven on Earth and everything will be perfect and we won't have to worry.

I asked if pets will get to go and she didn't know.  I asked why there is a preference for humans over other animals and she didn't know.

I asked if we die on Mars, how will we get back to Earth or if we are on a spaceship or in some other galaxy, will we be instantly transported back to Earth and she didn't know.

I asked how we would recognize others and what would they look like when we are on the Heaven and she didn't know.

She said that there is an apocalypse coming and that the bible predicted it such as storms, poverty, etc. and I said that that stuff has always been like that and she didn't have anything to say.

I asked how she could trust the bible when none of the stuff could be proven and she just said that you just have to have faith and that she had faith and all this great stuff happened to her and via the experience she has had, she believes.

She said I was asking great questions and she didn't have the answer to any of them.

I have another friend who is a Christian and I brought up how we can't prove anything that the bible says and she says that she too has faith and that from her experience she thinks God is real.  She did bring up that God was telling her to think poorly of people who do not believe in God.

I brought up concerns about all the hate/discrimination/violence/threats in the bible to my mom who is a Christian and she never budges although she has decided to quit going to the Catholic church because of the priests raping/molesting kids.

 

It is okay for them to think this stuff when it doesn't hurt anyone but when it does hurt people, that is where the line is drawn.  To be friends, you kinda have to keep the topic away from religion but it can make it awkward and feel like you aren't on the same page.  I feel like if we bring up religion, I end up trying to question their argument/justification for believing in the religion and that feels like awkward tension and I just end up leaving their house at that point.  I guess it takes more practice and you have to be very careful with your conversation so to keep it amicable.

Edited November 4, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[JuliusCaesar]

2 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

She says that when Jehovah is ready, there will be Heaven on Earth and everything will be perfect and we won't have to worry.

Lol, this is already the way reality is. The human species is just too judgemental to realize it.

[PepperBlossoms]

3 minutes ago, JuliusCaesar said:

Lol, this is already the way reality is. The human species is just too judgemental to realize it.

Well said. I should have said that! haha.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[PepperBlossoms]

Another thing that I questioned my friend was why the heaven had to be on Earth and if there were heavens on all the other planets and galaxies too?  Why the bias for Earth?  And where the line was drawn between Earth and outer space.

Edited November 4, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[PepperBlossoms]

Another thing she said is that you are okay at "death" as long as you believe what Jehovah wants you to believe and I asked if she knew what all that was that she was "supposed" to believe and she said she didn't know everything and I told her that she better figure it out.

It is interesting to question people on their religion to see where the assumptions and reasonings are.  It is up to each person to believe in what they want or to change their mind as I have learned questioning doesn't necessarily do anything and may make them feel even more religious than before.

[PepperBlossoms]

The jehovah's witness groups don't want their members talking to non-members because those non-members could try to get them to reconsider their beliefs.

[DocWatts]

 

[JuliusCaesar]

1 minute ago, PepperBlossoms said:

 I have learned questioning doesn't necessarily do anything and may make them feel even more religious than before.

Quite correct, these things you're identifying as foreign beliefs are nothing alien to these people. But are rather integral parts of how they make sense of reality. They feel these beliefs are part of themself just as much as their body is. So when you challenge their beliefs, they perceive you to be like an external threat trying to take their life. It's only logical that they'll dig their heels in the dirt and double down on their convictions, much as you would if you encountered a hungry animal trying to kill you. You wouldn't just surrender, and think well there's evidence that I could be dead therefore I should be. No, you'd fight back, what they're doing relative to their religious beliefs is no different.

 

If you want to alter the beliefs of other people, telling them they're wrong is 180 degrees the opposite of what's actually effective. Which is to show them they already believe what you want them to. Combine that with graduality to slowly alter their perceptions, and how they think about reality. And you have a winning formula for manipulating others' worldview/mindset. This is effectively how Charles Manson took ordinary law abiding Americans who wouldn't hurt a fly and transformed them into crazed cultists and murderers. Certainly, the same strategy could be employed to bring about the opposite impact.

[PepperBlossoms]

 

[ted73104]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are plenty branches of Christianity which are horrible cults.

Evangelicals and others are also batshit delusional.

You could argue that most of Christianity is a cult.

My personal life is a testament of what Leo said here. Although this is still just our opinion, but I have to say in the end, Christianity is just a fucking cult.

Edited November 5, 2021 by ted73104
Typo

[gettoefl]

18 hours ago, Rilles said:

Most of the Christians I met (I grew up in that environment) are pretty normal Stage Blue people, I wouldnt say all of it is a cult, maybe 50%, the rest are are normal people with very restrictive moral values who go to church on Sundays. 

it is a social club for most, since i left the church i have basically no social life, have to get myself right for a few years

[gettoefl]

18 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Another thing that I questioned my friend was why the heaven had to be on Earth and if there were heavens on all the other planets and galaxies too?  Why the bias for Earth?  And where the line was drawn between Earth and outer space.

"Rejoice in your love, rejoice in your songs. Rejoice in your music, rejoice in your dance. Rejoice in the beautiful trees - the innocent sounds of the birds. Rejoice in the night full of stars. This here is a perfect paradise. There is no other! Get in tune with it. Be one with it."

[gettoefl]

18 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

The jehovah's witness groups don't want their members talking to non-members because those non-members could try to get them to reconsider their beliefs.

religion is us vs them spirit is us is them

[Rilles]

6 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

it is a social club for most, since i left the church i have basically no social life, have to get myself right for a few years

Oh it definitely is! One thing I have to praise (no pun intended) pentecostal christians for is how welcoming they are, you literally feel accepted as soon as you walk in the door, but thats part of cult behaviour and how they brainwash you. Social dynamics that lead to feelings of forgiveness for former sins which can lead to intense spiritual group experiences.