Who is The Devil After All: Carbs or Saturated Fats?

[SQAAD]

I get all these conflicting advices from all sorts of different people and ''experts''. Some claim that carbs are the devil. They make you fat. You see some people on high carb diets being fat with diabetes and etc but you also see some of the healthiest and leanest people on high carb diets. Some say that carbs are not the problem. Saturated fats and sugar is problem. You also see people only eating animals products and the other side is saying how they will get cancer and die a painfully slow death..

What is going on? Who is right? I can find contradicting information everywhere. Is heart disease caused by carbs or saturated fats? There is much debate around this topic.

Personally i am a believer in plant based diets. They work well on me. No problems whatsoever. But some people can't handle plants so well. I think carbs won't make you fat unless you eat the wrong type of carbs and you can't keep your stomach full or a long period of time. Oatmeal for example will keep me full forever while eating a doughnut won't do nothing for me. 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by SQAAD

[Michael569]

My friend, grab a proper unbiased nutrition book and get yourself educated from a good old academic source. These biased bs videos are never gonna give you the full scope of information. Learn the basics, understand the carbs, the fats, the proteins and get the bigger picture. Then it will be much easier for you to distinguish the bullshit from the useful stuff. 

This book is a good start - 1000 pages of solid & useful information on everything you need to know 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Staying-Healthy-Nutrition-Nutritional-Twenty-First/dp/1587611791/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3059K0U7BHLVM&keywords=staying+healthy+with+nutrition&qid=1636022185&sprefix=staying+health+%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-1 

 

[How to be wise]

22 hours ago, SQAAD said:

Some say that carbs are not the problem. Saturated fats and sugar is problem. 

Sugar is a carb. 

As far as carbs go, most of them aren’t that bad for you. The true culprit is gluten. And of course sugar will make you fat. Doesn’t take a genius to realise that.

I’ve found countless phd’s debunking the idea that saturated fats cause heart disease. There’s no doubt that animal products are superior to any other type of food. Not only do they contain amino acids and fatty acids that you will rarely find in plant products, they also don’t have many of the nutrient-depleters common in carbs like phytic acid, oxalic acid, lectins, trypsin inhibitors and tannins. And it goes without saying that animal products have more protein in them.

[Michael569]

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I’ve found countless phd’s debunking the idea that saturated fats cause heart disease

completely irrelevant to what PhD on the internet say. Expert opinions are at the bottom of the hierarchy of evidence, especially the ones who pull facts out of their asses and cherry-pick evidence such as many YouTubers do. You gotta look at the highest level of evidence which is systematic trials and meta-analyses. Once you pool those together you'll see that above somewhere around 35grams per day the risk starts increasing. The risk is also accelerating dramatically by the consumption of processed meat, red meat and butter. So it ain't as simple as saturated fats good or bad, there is a grey area there. 

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

The true culprit is gluten

only if you are coeliac, for majority of people gluten is not a problem 

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

There’s no doubt that animal products are superior to any other type of food

Based on what? I'd argue anytime that a 10-pound bag of red lentils is superior to 10 pounds of the leanest and most organic red meat. Especially considering the cost, storage and risk: benefit ratio. 

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Not only do they contain amino acids and fatty acids that you will rarely find in plant products, they also don’t have many of the nutrient-depleters common in carbs like phytic acid, oxalic acid, lectins, trypsin inhibitors and tannins.

-facepalm- 

All plant foods contain amino acids and nearly all plant foods contain full amino acid profile. This argument is completely invalid, most people combine plants and so they get all they need. 

All animal foods that contain fatty acids have those fatty acids from plants! Where do you think salmon gets the EFAs? From algae. Majority of EFA sources are actually plant foods. What you mean is probably arachidonic adic and saturated fats. Those are found mostly in animals and in excess are both potentially harmful. 

Phytic Acid - not harmful, absolutely no evidence in humans. In fact it is helpful to a degree. This argument needs to die. 

Oxalic Acid - not harmful. Oxalates contribute to kidney stones only in people with calcium deficiency or with messed up gut who have lost oxalobacter formigenes colonies due to over exposure to antibiotics. This argument also needs to die. 

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

lectins

not harmful, no evidence for it whatsoever, all the studies on lectins are based on in-vitro. COmpletely irrelevant to human health. If lectins were harmful, humans would have died out thousands of years ago because they are found everywhere (even in meat and dairy) 

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

phytic acid, oxalic acid, lectins, trypsin inhibitors and tannins

-sigh- no human data, no evidence of harm whatsoever, neither of them has ever been shown to be harmful. All nonsense founded by low-carb community and carnivore bs. I can't believe people still use these as anti-plant argument. Again, if these were harmful we would have died out long ago. 

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

trypsin inhibitors

 this is a new one. they get ever more creative 

46 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

And it goes without saying that animal products have more protein in them.

This one is true but nutrition goes beyond just protein. Animals foods have no fibre, no complex carbohydrates feeding the microbiome, no antioxidants, no polyphenolic compounds etc. 

[undeather]

Quote

I’ve found countless phd’s debunking the idea that saturated fats cause heart disease.

You will find people "debunking" the globe earth. That doesnt say shit. 
Think further - how do you know which side is true? Whats the epistemiological basis of both arguments? Part of my graduation thesis was the connection between cholesterol/sat.-fat & heart disease - there is so much data, a lifetime worth of information. How can you know for sure if you dont walk thorugh it for yourself? 

 

[Jodistrict]

I have found  all the nutritional books out there very frustrating and contradictory.  This isn’t science.  As the title of this thread suggests, if it was science, there would be one answer.   My strategy is to eat a balanced meal and don’t eat too much.   My hunch is that the extremist diets are wrong because our bodies evolved to survive by eating from a variety of food sources.

[Leo Gura]

The solution is obvious: eat high quality unprocessed whole foods.

The devil is heavily processed foods and foods that combine many ingredients together.

It's hard to go wrong with a whole fruit, veggie, or cut of meat.

If you want to stay effortlessly lean, cut out starchy carbs like potatoes, wheat, rice, grains, oats, etc. If you want to bulk up or need a lot of energy to burn, then load up on the starchy carbs.

[undeather]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The solution is obvious: eat high quality unprocessed whole foods.

The devil is heavily processed foods and foods that combine many ingredients together.

It's hard to go wrong with a whole fruit, veggie, or cut of meat.

If you want to stay effortlessly lean, cut out starchy carbs like potatoes, wheat, rice, grains, etc. If you want to bulk up or need a lot of energy to burn, then load up on the starchy carbs.

I think Michael Pollan put it best:"Eat real food. Not too much. Mostly plants.”

[How to be wise]

3 hours ago, undeather said:

You will find people "debunking" the globe earth.

I said you will find countless phd’s. Do you know a single physicist who doesn’t believe the earth is spherical.

[undeather]

13 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I said you will find countless phd’s. Do you know a single physicist who doesn’t believe the earth is spherical.

I am sure there is one. 
Also, let me assure you - as someone who has a PhD to his name as well: Academic titles - in any quantity or quality, do not equal high intelligence or a lot of common sense. I know some really, really dumb people with a titles longer than their names. Some of the most biased and small-minded people I have ever met are highly educated idiots. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by undeather

[SQAAD]

@How to be wise

7 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Sugar is a carb. 

And of course sugar will make you fat. Doesn’t take a genius to realise that.

 

By sugar i mean refined carbs. The whole grain carbs and vegetables, fruits are not that big of a problem because they contain fiber and its hard to overeat em.

I don't believe that sugar or carbs for that matter make you fat. Calorie surplus will ultimately make someone fat. The problem with eating sugar (table sugar) is that it doesn't fill you. Nobody gets fat by eating apples. Its really hard. But when you add a bunch of sugar and fat into a doughnut , its so easy. You can eat a dozen of doughnuts but good luck eating a dozen of apples.

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by SQAAD

[SQAAD]

@Leo Gura

7 hours ago, How to be wise said:

If you want to stay effortlessly lean, cut out starchy carbs like potatoes, wheat, rice, grains, oats, etc. If you want to bulk up or need a lot of energy to burn, then load up on the starchy carbs.

Some of these carbs can be helpful for weight loss for many people. As long as you don't overeat them.

[Leo Gura]

If all you eat is 5 potatos a day, yeah, you will lose weight.

[Preety_India]

I guess saturated fats. 

I would that at all costs. 

Don't know about carbs. 

How are you supposed to get energy? 

 

[Carl-Richard]

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

no polyphenolic compounds

Do you have some interesting information about that? I've always wondered what polyphenols are capable of.

[LSD-Rumi]

1. simple or refined Carbs are addictive, and high in calories and doesn't produce satisfaction as in fats and proteins for example. They also lack any nutritional benefits. Good Fats on the other hand produce satisfaction and decrease the feeling of hunger and are essential for many body functions.
2. Simple carbs are usually combined with fat and bad oils in a recipe for disaster. Imagine taking this addictive substance and combine it with fats which are known for their high calories profile.

I tried eating some fast food the other day and Jesus christ it made me feel like an animal! after I ate some I felt even more hungry than before. It was not natural for humans to access high carbs food, so it was instinctive for us to eat as much as possible when we used to find it in the wild. Now, these genes were passed down to you but now high carbs food are everywhere, So you better stay away from it or you will you have huge problems.

Not all carbs are the same, complex carbs and fibers are essential for a good healthy diet. What we are talking about are simple or refined carbs.

[LSD-Rumi]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

I guess saturated fats. 

 

saturated fats are not bad. New research has found that saturated fats are not correlated with any increase in the risk of heart disease or strokes but they increase LDL for some reason. Also saturated fats like palm oil or coconut oil are very low in omega 6 which is an inflammatory agent and are not gmo. Just look at this chart for example. compare unsaturated with saturated fat, Saturated fats contain way less omega 6 than most unsaturated fats.
 

Edited November 5, 2021 by LSD-Rumi

[Preety_India]

@LSD-Rumi and LDL is bad? 

 

[LSD-Rumi]

@Preety_India If you asked any doctor, they would say absolutely yes it is bad and very bad. I still didn't do enough research on this topic but From what I found is that doctors are good at making assumptions based on bad research especially when it comes to nutrition because they don't treat it seriously. I think atherosclerosis has much more to it than LDL.

[Preety_India]

@LSD-Rumi now of course I'm going to listen to a doctor. I can't outsmart a doctor. 

I mean they are not simply reading things. They are dealing with patients in real life. They get to see test results. So I guess they know better when they say LDL is bad? 

I mean who wants to take a chance against a doctor's opinion?