How can Leo call Obama of significantly higher consciousness than Trump?

[Consept]

15 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

@Consept I would NOT advocate for or against abstinence

Right but its what a lot of conservatives are advocating for, either way stats are quite conclusive that early sex education leads to lower numbers in all the metrics i mentioned. This is where i see a bit of irony because people claim they want to protect kids by not teaching them sex education early however if you dont its a lot more likely that they will be taken advantage of. 

[Johnny Galt]

@Consept I disagree with both, the left and the right, in regards to how they are handling it, they be swinging polarities of each other.

Because it is such a topic in culture, I do think some sort of education would be useful.  

[Nahm]

38 minutes ago, BenG said:

Wait, just so I'm clear, you're saying that it's easy to judge people in positions of power and authority, but when we rise to those positions ourselves, we realize that we're not a benevolent as we thought. Right?

Not really… I was more speaking to the thread topic. Higher & lower consciousness is judgement, and is the projection of one’s own inferiority (fear) onto others, when one is not ready to accept & love the aspects of oneself which are being suppressed, denied, justified, etc. As any teacher of spirituality would tell you, consciousness is infinite, and the materialist paradigm (which is thought attachment) is that consciousness is an aspect, product, property, etc, of a person, and thus seems like it could be higher or lower. So in the dad example, that ‘he was an asshole’ was me projecting onto him. Then I realized it was actually me that was the asshole, doing the judging, projecting, suppressing, and justifying the denial. When this was seen, it turned out he was actually a really, really great guy. 

[Johnny Galt]

11 minutes ago, something_else said:

What exactly are the reasons you think early sex-ed is bad? In a few sentences. It was hard to tell from your rambly post but I'm curious to hear your viewpoint 

Asking 11 year olds about their sexual orientation is pretty bad, I agree. Educating them about what different kinds of sexual orientation there are so they can start to consider it themselves on the other hand is a great thing. I'm assuming that was the intention of that survey

The best argument for early sexual education is that by the time a kid is 11-12, they start learning about sex stuff from their peers anyway, especially if they have older siblings or older friends. And then the question becomes whether you'd rather a trained professional sex-ed teacher taught them about sex or they learn it through the filter of their peers. Because one of those two things has to start happening first

@something_else This is not a simple topic and so I don't think I can do what it is your asking, but thanks for asking

There's so much going on here. From how we learn as humans (imitation), to sex in relations to ourself and the cosmos, to, I don't think it's a good idea to show detailed imagery of sex positions for those who aren't even going through puberty.

As I said to another, we could say a lot less while still doing a good job of introducing topics of this nature. 

 

[Harlen Kelly]

2 hours ago, Johnny Galt said:

I disagree with both, the left and the right, in regards to how they are handling it, they be swinging polarities of each other.

Lol. The data suggests that sex education creates better results. You are not adopting the ideological position of a centrist, you are adopting the ideological position of somebody who is against data and quantifiable facts otherwise known as an anti-intellectual (which is typical among conservatives). 

[Johnny Galt]

@Harlen Kelly

The data suggests and so therefor the the data is correct? Is that how science works?

I'm not a centrist. It's all dumb - left, right, centrist, anarchist, communist, libertarian - when ever you wedge me into a category you move further away from knowing where i stand. But if you like confusion, feel free to keep choosing so

And in looking into the SOGI (sexual orientation gender identification) in BC (years ago), I looked into where the numbers/stats/percentages came from, and I came to see that they are pulling from small numbers and a small surveys of studies and it most definitely did not justify incorporating sex ed into all schools across Canada. It's not backed by "science".  

Edited November 3, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Shin]

1 hour ago, Johnny Galt said:

@Harlen Kelly

The data suggests and so therefor the the data is correct? Is that how science works?

I'm not a centrist. It's all dumb - left, right, centrist, anarchist, communist, libertarian - when ever you wedge me into a category you move further away from knowing where i stand. But if you like confusion, feel free to keep choosing so

And in looking into the SOGI (sexual orientation gender identification) in BC (years ago), I looked into where the numbers/stats/percentages came from, and I came to see that they are pulling from small numbers and a small surveys of studies and it most definitely did not justify incorporating sex ed into all schools across Canada. It's not backed by "science".  

If the experiences were done right, even just one of them is enough.

Statistics isn't just wishful thinking you know.

You're clearly against it and seek elusive and sneaky arguments, but we see right through it ?

[Shin]

Also, Obama didn't need to create a new social media app (lmao the name) cause he was lying and insulting people on a daily basis on Facebook and Twitter.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Shin

[Iesu]

11 hours ago, Nahm said:

For a hot minute a ways back my dad was an asshole. Then I realized I’m exactly like him. Who woulda thought. ?

LOL same here. Was playing cards against humanity with my dad. And the judge's card was "what comes out a butthole" Jokingly we both throw down trump and obama. 

[Shin]

1 hour ago, BenG said:

Well his app is the Truth, soooooo. 

Can't argue with that  

[Johnny Galt]

@Shin

7 hours ago, Shin said:

If the experiences were done right, even just one of them is enough.

Statistics isn't just wishful thinking you know.

You're clearly against it and seek elusive and sneaky arguments, but we see right through it ?

I agree, statistics isn't wishful thinking. I believe it was based of off lived experience and so it should be taken into account. And yet, do you even know what it is I am referring to? in regards to statistics? You might want to ask more questions before you place judgement

 

@Harlen Kelly

9 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Lol. The data suggests that sex education creates better results. You are not adopting the ideological position of a centrist, you are adopting the ideological position of somebody who is against data and quantifiable facts otherwise known as an anti-intellectual (which is typical among conservatives). 

 @Consept

Maybe I should say more. I would not teach that one should practice abstinence but I would also not teach that they should not practice abstinence - I would introduce both pathways and all that could come with it. In turn the student would be more informed of both directions and so that they can better find out which pathway is best for them.

 

[roopepa]

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

Not really… I was more speaking to the thread topic. Higher & lower consciousness is judgement, and is the projection of one’s own inferiority (fear) onto others, when one is not ready to accept & love the aspects of oneself which are being suppressed, denied, justified, etc. As any teacher of spirituality would tell you, consciousness is infinite, and the materialist paradigm (which is thought attachment) is that consciousness is an aspect, product, property, etc, of a person, and thus seems like it could be higher or lower. So in the dad example, that ‘he was an asshole’ was me projecting onto him. Then I realized it was actually me that was the asshole, doing the judging, projecting, suppressing, and justifying the denial. When this was seen, it turned out he was actually a really, really great guy. 

Would you say that projection is not only a psychological/emotional 'thing', but also metaphysical?

What I mean is that perhaps there really is no such thing as "an asshole dad" or "lunatic low-conscious narcissistic president", but really only projected images. More fundamentally, not even 'another person', only projection.

[Nahm]

15 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Would you say that projection is not only a psychological/emotional 'thing', but also metaphysical?

So much so that when the answer is yes it seems like someone else is answering. 

15 minutes ago, roopepa said:

What I mean is that perhaps there really is no such thing as "an asshole dad" or "lunatic low-conscious narcissistic president", but really only projected images. More fundamentally, not even 'another person', only projection.

Yes. That’s how / why judgement of other as higher or lower consciousness veils only oneself from the truth. One doing so is missing one is objectifying oneself via the believing of the comparison, which isn’t grounded in any actuality. 

[DocWatts]

36 minutes ago, Nahm said:

So much so that when the answer is yes it seems like someone else is answering. 

Yes. That’s how / why judgement of other as higher or lower consciousness veils only oneself from the truth. One doing so is missing one is objectifying oneself via the believing of the comparison, which isn’t grounded in any actuality. 

Sure, but this deeper Truth is something that has to be compartmentalized to some degree because we have to live in a world where we have obligations towards other people.

Compassion without good judgement and the ability to act in the world is mere sentiment. 

Being compassionate towards individuals while being critical towards institutions and ideologies seems like a good principle to live one's life by. Which includes being cultivating the ability to respond to the world in situationally appropriate ways 

Edited November 3, 2021 by DocWatts

[Nahm]

28 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Sure, but this deeper Truth is something that has to be compartmentalized to some degree because we have to live in a world where we have obligations towards other people.

The compartmentalizing is a coping strategy for the discord of the belief in obligations to other people. Compartmentalizing isn’t a need, one doesn’t have to. It’s an interpretation. 

Quote

Compassion without good judgement and the ability to act in the world is mere sentiment. 

Good judgement is an oxymoron. Discernment naturally arises of direct experience, and much more clearly for not judging people / individuals, comparative / divisive / self referential thinking. 

Quote

Being compassionate towards individuals while being critical towards institutions and ideologies seems like a good principle to live one's life by. Which includes being cultivating the ability to respond to the world in situationally appropriate ways 

Just opinion, connotation, but I would say one can be kind in relationships with other individuals, but compassion is communion. Bit of an extreme pointing, but compassion isn’t delusional. One can feel & express compassion without othering. 

[Leo Gura]

Obama is an order of magnitude higher in consciousness than Trump.

If you can't see that, you should not be following my work.

[Harlen Kelly]

@Johnny Galt I seriously suggest you to turn off right wing propaganda.

[DocWatts]

24 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Just opinion, connotation, but I would say one can be kind in relationships with other individuals, but compassion is communion. Bit of an extreme pointing, but compassion isn’t delusional. One can feel & express compassion without othering. 

Fair, and upon reflection perhaps I was responding to a connotation of implied passivity that wasn't necessary there, and was an assumption on my part.

I suppose my larger point would be that compassion requires discernment, as acting in the world is a necessary component of compassion and every decision one makes brings with it opportunity costs.

Edited November 3, 2021 by DocWatts

[Nahm]

@DocWatts

I don’t disagree really, but compassion could also be seen as a default or the absence of conditioning or beliefs to the contrary. Natural, or the common sense, with care not to bypass any already repeating conditioning. 

[DocWatts]

@Nahm I suppose that brings up some interesting questions about if humans have a 'default' state of being, and if so what that nature is. 

My own intuition is that if such a thing exists, our 'natural' circle of concern remains quite small unless cultivated through socialization. Just considering the sorts of social structures that we're adapted to (small hunter gatherer tribes) are based on kin selection, and for the vast majority of human history opportunities to interact with people outside of one's small social circle was very limited.

That said, the tricky thing with these sorts of questions is that the consequences for having an overly optimistic or pessimistic view of human nature can have rather drastic negative consequences.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by DocWatts