Post-trip melancholy

[tuckerwphotography]

I recently participated in a two day Ayahuasca ceremony, and like my previous experiences, during the actual journey I felt pretty much nothing but pure bliss, rapture, ecstasy. It feels like Spirit is dancing and moving my body and sending me off into cosmic orgasms. It's incredible, until the next morning, when I'm back as a regular human and met with feelings of sadness and disconnection. It's almost like the sensation of getting off a rollercoaster - it's so exhilarating during the ride but then when it ends life feels kind of blah again. The contrast is so intense that I think it magnifies the darker polarities. 

This usually last for 1-2 days, and then I catch up on sleep and spend some time alone, and I feel back to normal equilibrium again. I'm just wondering if others share this experience and if so what can help with this "post-trip blues"?

Edited November 1, 2021 by tuckerwphotography

[Fearless_Bum]

Hey, what time do you usually begin your trips?

[BipolarGrowth]

This is described very in depth in the stages of insight in Buddhism. You were almost certainly in an Arising & Passing away insight stage experience during the trip then fell into a light form of the Dark Night of the Soul insight stages upon seeing all the blissful and fun stuff prove to be impermanent and therefore unsatisfying. You can learn more about the stages of insight here if you’re interested: https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/30-the-progress-of-insight/3-the-three-characteristics/

Shoot me a PM if you want to go more in depth. 

[Flowerfaeiry]

Ayahuasca is traditionally used for shadow work from my understanding and experience with the medicine. Are you taking it by yourself? My personal advice is not to drink unless with a trusted facilitator as they work specifically with things like this!

[BipolarGrowth]

7 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Ayahuasca is traditionally used for shadow work from my understanding and experience with the medicine. Are you taking it by yourself? My personal advice is not to drink unless with a trusted facilitator as they work specifically with things like this!

I second this. Ayahuasca in ceremony can be truly magical. The ceremony atmosphere, integration, and support from facilitators can really upgrade the experience heavily. 

[tuckerwphotography]

17 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Ayahuasca is traditionally used for shadow work from my understanding and experience with the medicine. Are you taking it by yourself? My personal advice is not to drink unless with a trusted facilitator as they work specifically with things like this!

@BipolarGrowth @Flowerfaeiry Yes, all of my ayahuasca experiences were in ceremony with highly experienced facilitators from Peru and Brazil. But what I'm describing takes place after the ceremonies when everyone goes home and there's usually little support. 

[tuckerwphotography]

19 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

This is described very in depth in the stages of insight in Buddhism. You were almost certainly in an Arising & Passing away insight stage experience during the trip then fell into a light form of the Dark Night of the Soul insight stages upon seeing all the blissful and fun stuff prove to be impermanent and therefore unsatisfying. You can learn more about the stages of insight here if you’re interested: https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/30-the-progress-of-insight/3-the-three-characteristics/

Shoot me a PM if you want to go more in depth. 

@BipolarGrowth Thanks so much for sharing this! Was really helpful to read. 

I skimmed chapters A&P through Conformity, and I sense that the stage I'm at is Equanimity, though I would need to read the book in more detail to know for sure. 

That said, the bliss/rapture/ecstasy states in A&P certainly have a lot of overlap with my psychedelic experiences. I pretty consistently have ego death experiences these days, even on relatively small doses, and often dissolve into what I can only describe as Infinite Mind where insights about Truth create a cosmic orgasm-like experience. Except it's not happening to Tucker and to a physical body (as those no longer exist in these states), it's just this abstract bliss that feels like God endlessly ejaculating (in a cosmic not physical sense lol). This last for hours until Consciousness slowly recreates a physical body and ego mind in which I as Tucker come back into form. Often the bliss remains for hours after I'm back in my body, and intense surges of energy course through my body as if Spirit is dancing me. Everything is in perfect harmony and flow, even my ego thoughts which can be witnessed and unconditionally loved. 

I mention all this to say that I suspect the "Dark Night" feelings are from going from Nonduality to Duality again, and from experiencing Bliss to Equanimity again. Put more bluntly, going from God to Tucker is a bit of a letdown hahaha, although within a day usually a sense of Equanimity returns. Perhaps this is the "Dark Night of Equanimity" that the writer briefly alludes to.

My sense is that all these maps and models for meditation and awakening need to be researched and reevaluated through the lensing of psychedelics, as I suspect (though am no expert) that the the progression of insights and embodiment happen in unique ways that may not fully align with traditional awakening models.

Let me know your thoughts, brother, and appreciate you taking the time to share your wisdom! 

[BipolarGrowth]

36 minutes ago, tuckerwphotography said:

@BipolarGrowth Thanks so much for sharing this! Was really helpful to read. 

I skimmed chapters A&P through Conformity, and I sense that the stage I'm at is Equanimity, though I would need to read the book in more detail to know for sure. 

That said, the bliss/rapture/ecstasy states in A&P certainly have a lot of overlap with my psychedelic experiences. I pretty consistently have ego death experiences these days, even on relatively small doses, and often dissolve into what I can only describe as Infinite Mind where insights about Truth create a cosmic orgasm-like experience. Except it's not happening to Tucker and to a physical body (as those no longer exist in these states), it's just this abstract bliss that feels like God endlessly ejaculating (in a cosmic not physical sense lol). This last for hours until Consciousness slowly recreates a physical body and ego mind in which I as Tucker come back into form. Often the bliss remains for hours after I'm back in my body, and intense surges of energy course through my body as if Spirit is dancing me. Everything is in perfect harmony and flow, even my ego thoughts which can be witnessed and unconditionally loved. 

I mention all this to say that I suspect the "Dark Night" feelings are from going from Nonduality to Duality again, and from experiencing Bliss to Equanimity again. Put more bluntly, going from God to Tucker is a bit of a letdown hahaha, although within a day usually a sense of Equanimity returns. Perhaps this is the "Dark Night of Equanimity" that the writer briefly alludes to.

My sense is that all these maps and models for meditation and awakening need to be researched and reevaluated through the lensing of psychedelics, as I suspect (though am no expert) that the the progression of insights and embodiment happen in unique ways that may not fully align with traditional awakening models.

Let me know your thoughts, brother, and appreciate you taking the time to share your wisdom! 

I’ve spent a lot of time over recent months working with these maps and others. When you add the psychedelic path to it, it adds way more than the meditators usually want to admit. There’s a lot of bias on both sides. IMO someone cannot possibly have a fully accurate insight and opinion into their models without accessing their territory quite comprehensively. I was lucky enough to have my first cessations (temporary attainment of Nibbana/Ultimate Reality/etc.) on 5-28-2021 which opened me to going deeper and deeper into their whole system. It’s been way more baseline consciousness progress than anything the psychedelic path gave. Regardless, I consider all of the people doing meditation only to be severely limiting themselves in growing to the deepest capacities of Infinity. 
 

If you want to talk about this kind of stuff in more depth, shoot me a PM, and we can get in touch. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[Fearless_Bum]

You probably trip too late in the evening. 

Trip early in the morning to prevent losing sleep.

[tuckerwphotography]

31 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

You probably trip too late in the evening. 

Trip early in the morning to prevent losing sleep.

@Fearless_Bum Ayahuasca ceremonies almost always start in the evening and last all night. I'm not sure exactly why, but it's the traditional way and has been maintained even in modern ceremonial circles.  

[Fearless_Bum]

@tuckerwphotography so next time trip in the morning and see if it's different. 

Between you and me, there's been many traditions repeated in civilization that let's just say haven't really been helpful ?.

[BipolarGrowth]

5 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

@tuckerwphotography so next time trip in the morning and see if it's different. 

Between you and me, there's been many traditions repeated in civilization that let's just say haven't really been helpful ?.

I doubt losing the benefits of ceremony for an earlier trip would be a net gain for him. This is way beyond sleep or circadian rhythm. 

[Fearless_Bum]

@BipolarGrowth I don't understand, he does the ceremony, he feels depressed. 

Doesn't do the ceremony, maybe feels better. 

Maybe I'm being simplistic, but changing the pattern is helpful. 

I know exactly how it feels, when you trip at night, you wake up the next morning groggy, feeling traumatized and overwhelmed. 

Versus having a nice trip in the morning and slowly coming down and then sleeping like a baby. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Fearless_Bum

[BipolarGrowth]

3 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

@BipolarGrowth I don't understand, he does the ceremony, he feels depressed. 

Doesn't do the ceremony, maybe feels better. 

Maybe I'm being simplistic, but changing the pattern is helpful. 

I know exactly how it feels, when you trip at night, you wake up the next morning groggy, feeling traumatized and overwhelmed. 

Versus having a nice trip in the morning and slowly coming down and then sleeping like a baby. 

He can experiment with tripping on ayahuasca at home, but acquiring it or making it on your own is a pain in the ass. The ceremony really added immense value for me. His issues are far more related to the A&P to Dark Night shift that I mentioned in my opinion based both on many experiences of mine and what a clear expert has indicated is an inherent part of the awakening process. Sleep is great. Being aligned with natural circadian rhythm are great. Regardless, they’re probably like a few buckets of water poured into an Olympic swimming pool. It’s not likely to be the factor that makes or breaks this occurrence for him. Nothing really stops this process. It’s worse for some more than others, but no one gets to significant levels of awakening without facing some Dark Nights. Being equipped with knowledge of what’s going on and how to move through the cycle of insight can pull a lot of the suffering out of it overall though. 

[Fearless_Bum]

@BipolarGrowth oh I see the misunderstanding here. 

I meant tripping on lsd mushrooms, dmt, etc. 

Not specifically ayahuasca.

[BipolarGrowth]

23 minutes ago, Fearless_Bum said:

@BipolarGrowth oh I see the misunderstanding here. 

I meant tripping on lsd mushrooms, dmt, etc. 

Not specifically ayahuasca.

Yeah I have no reasons to be for or against tripping in the morning or afternoon on any of those. Ayahuasca is also more of a medicine in my experience. This is another reason for me preferring the idea of ceremony. Not necessarily some trip producing machine, although it can be. It cured my depression for a while which was teetering on being suicidal when no antidepressants or even other psychedelics were working. I didn’t even trip lol. I just got nauseous, went to sleep to avoid the nausea and less than one hit of weed psychoactive effects, then woke up a completely more authentic and happy me. Happened both nights. Then it lead to some intuition that brought me to develop myself in other spiritual domains that I could’ve never predicted. 

[Gili Trawangan]

If I were you, I would contemplate on impermanence and the fact that ecstatic experiences are temporary - all experiences are temporary.

In order for pleasure to exist, pain and aversion need to exist as well. But in the midst of all of this, what are you?

[mandyjw]

The misunderstanding that "happiness is caused" is root of this kind of thing. We habitually believe that substances, items, people, circumstances and events are the cause of our happiness. It seems this way because when we get something we desire, there is actually a lack of thoughts saying that what we want is not here. When you take a substance that stops those particular thoughts and invites in new possibilities you would again attribute that happiness with the substance, not the lack of thoughts. The good news is you can drop thoughts that feel bad to you at any point. 

"I feel less than I did two days ago." is one of those thoughts. 

 

 

[tuckerwphotography]

@Gili Trawangan @mandyjw Thank you. Appreciate these very helpful and constructive responses