Does It really take THAT much time and effort to develop confidence and extroversion?

[Javfly33]

I underestimated the price of freedom.

 I just came back home after being on a bar/pub having a drink with a couple of puas/wingmans. Honestly i Dont know if they were going to approach later on the night But i was already emotionally fatigued just being with them, so I left "soon". But dude was this a night to remember.

They were clearly stage green. I was not expecting this. In a Matter of a few minutes they fastily read me into how constricted, introverted-into my head i am and told me something along the lines of "you have to start valuing yourself" etc. 

After about 1 hour into What It felt an "intervention" in how i am blockaged inside my head, my ego etc at one point i do felt "free" for some seconds and i tasted What It feels to socialize/Talk totally free and with no internal monologue of fear. This was after they talking to me for at least half an hour straight about how i can get rid myself of this (my social anxiety/blockage/ego.etc) . I got a free therapy session basically Lol

Overall i am "Happy" because i had a dose of truth But i am kinda shocked because It seems this is going to take a LOT of fucking work.

I am not going to achieve the "freedom" just going out from time to time. I probably Will have to spend hours and hours st least each weekend, for maybe 2-3 years. My ego has to totally break down and i need to stop "controlling" and being constricted in social situations. 

This is a change in personality. Or better, a Matter of being able to let go in social situations which honestly It feels like lifting a 300Kg. And It seems you have to do It over and over and over. Over expose yourself, desensitize yourself, let go, flow, express, over and over. Until the ego cant anymore control. (Or better said the ego learns that is SAFE to let go and express itself).

This is going to take a tremendous amount of work, right? Fuck. 

 

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I underestimated the price of freedom.

It seems this is going to take a LOT of fucking work.

It will take way more work than you expected.

But the reward will also be greater than you expected.

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I am not going to achieve the "freedom" just going out from time to time. I probably Will have to spend hours and hours st least each weekend, for maybe 2-3 years.

Yup

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This is going to take a tremendous amount of work, right? Fuck.

Oh yeah.

The average person cannot fathom how much work it takes to get good at pickup for a hard case newbie.

It's like climbing mount Everest.

This is why few people get good at it. Most people are just way too lazy and take socialization and dating for granted. They want it to be effortless. If  you are deeply introverted it will be a serious challenge because it goes against the grain of how your psyche is structured.

[hyruga]

You will need to approach a lot of women and it will take massive amount of work. It will even make you old and tired. But you will eventually get you rewards.

[Karmadhi]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is why few people get good at it. Most people are just way too lazy and take socialization and dating for granted. They want it to be effortless. If  you are deeply introverted it will be a serious challenge because it goes against the grain of how your psyche is structured.

Are you talking about dating or socialization in general? I have met people that are very social and fun and outgoing that still struggled a lot with girls. Because they lacked things like boldness or that assertive attitude. Their social skills, humor and chillness was on point though.

Personally i have done a shit lot of socialization to the point where it is effortless now but dating is still bit of a struggle when it comes to making it man to woman (not the getting to know, comfort, opening up part).

I feel like getting better at girls is just a very specific skill set instead of just learning how to be social in general.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yup

Oh yeah.

Jesus... 2 years of this. (or more )  Yeah... now I definetely get why I never got much results/growth the last 5-6 years.

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It's like climbing mount Everest.

Yes, it does feel like that man. And personally it feels that it´s a mountain that have never been crowned and one doesn't know if it´s humanly possible to arrive at the peak.

@Leo Gura But I guess I need to have trust that somefuckinghow I will get there if I put a tremendous amount of work. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Are you talking about dating or socialization in general? I have met people that are very social and fun and outgoing that still struggled a lot with girls. Because they lacked things like boldness or that assertive attitude. Their social skills, humor and chillness was on point though.

Personally i have done a shit lot of socialization to the point where it is effortless now but dating is still bit of a struggle when it comes to making it man to woman (not the getting to know, comfort, opening up part).

I feel like getting better at girls is just a very specific skill set instead of just learning how to be social in general.

Pickup specifically requires 1000s of hours of practice. It is a very specific and unusual skill set.

[hyruga]

38 minutes ago, Droo_ said:

Is it worth the 1000s of hours of practice? I feel like I would rather spend that time working on my life purpose and doing spiritual work but then again I'm still a virgin.

Yes work on your life purpose first. You should earn a decent amount of money first before you should start dating. Once you have earned few hundred k to millions of dollars, you can do all the pickups you want. 

I find daygame pickup harder than night game. But I am Chinese and Chinese girls are not so easy to approach or open up. Or it is my own limiting belief. Anyway, I approach less than 50 times. FML.

 

 

[Joel3102]

4 hours ago, Droo_ said:

Is it worth the 1000s of hours of practice? I feel like I would rather spend that time working on my life purpose and doing spiritual work but then again I'm still a virgin.

Pickup will massively increase your overall social confidence which is  massively advantageous in the real world.

if you become confident enough to approach a group of 9s solo and sober, there’s not much else you can’t do socially 

[StarStruck]

3 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

Pickup will massively increase your overall social confidence which is  massively advantageous in the real world.

if you become confident enough to approach a group of 9s solo and sober, there’s not much else you can’t do socially 

That last part is not true at all. I went on dates with 9s because of my ability to execute and do. But after couple of hours they found out that I don't have high confidence and they block me. 

If you don't have confidence you will be treated as literal shit by women. It is that important. 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Droo_ said:

Is it worth the 1000s of hours of practice? I feel like I would rather spend that time working on my life purpose and doing spiritual work but then again I'm still a virgin.

That depends on what you want out of life.

For me it was worth it, not because of the sex I got but because of how much stronger it made me as a man. To me that is priceless. The sex is a nice bonus. I don't recommend doing pickup for the sex.

[HypnoticMagician]

You can. But, initially, you don't need extroversion but confidence. Of course, I recommend you should do both, first, starting from its basic core : self-esteem -which is not as egoistical as fake spiritualist claim.

[Jodistrict]

This is the most real thread on this forum.  

[Karmadhi]

I do not like the sociaety biases towards extroversion. People assume introverts are anti social people that are shy and have 0 communication skills and that is not true at all. Some great charismatic leaders are natural introverts. You can be funny, charismatic, confident and social while being an introvert. Usually shyness and anti social behaviour comes from some sort of childhood trauma or conditioning, not because one is "naturally introverted".

Being an introvert is great, it has a lot of benefits. Just like being an extrovert has a lot of benefits. Both have their strenghts and weaknesses. Both have charisma and social skills. They are just displayed in different ways. Introverts tend to be more socially chill, relaxed, witty etc while extroverts tend to be more loud and all including. Each style is better for certain situations.

When someone says to develop extroversion i do not agree with that term. Developing social skills, humour, confidence, etc is NOT developing extroversion. Yes, it is harder for introverts to develop these things than extroverts naturally but it does not mean they naturally will not be able to do so if they interact with people. The whole structure of society is that you have to interact with people, especially during your education. 

[mandyjw]

Extroverted, meaning focused on what's on the outside, focused on others. So thoughts of developing my extroversion are actually introverted, thoughts about myself reflecting on myself. If I'm thinking about what others are thinking of me, I'm introverted. If I'm really perceiving someone as they are, enjoying them, and feeling inspired to express myself, the only way I can BE extroverted is to just DO that in the moment, I can't really think myself extroverted. 

[soos_mite_ah]

If you feel like you have a lot of blocks with your sense of confidence and valuing yourself, maybe in addition to going out, contemplating, talking to someone, or getting a therapist might also be helpful. Why brute force over blocks constantly when you can remove them at the source? 

Because imo, introversion isn't a problem. We need introverts in social settings or else things would get chaotic and people wont be listened to if everyone felt the need to be outgoing. Insecurity is the main issue imo and it's important to acknowledge that because you want to diagnose the problem correctly if you want a good, effective solution. The other reason I stress this is because I think it could potentially be counter productive to go against a large part of who you are and that can come at odds with your sense of authenticity. And sacrificing what makes you unique isn't going to help in social situations to really connect with people. Not to mention, it's also incredibly exhausting to keep up an image that might not even resonate with you in the slightest. There is so much resistance that would be involved and I feel that this is one of those situations that brute forcing it and making yourself go out every weekend for hours might erode you more than it might help you. This would especially be the case since as an introvert, it's likely that you get your energy when you're by yourself. And I also think in order to really value yourself, you also need to value who you are and what your needs and boundaries are rather than morphing yourself into something you're just not. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by soos_mite_ah
grammar and clarity

[Nahm]

@soos_mite_ah

Well said. 
 

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

I do not like the sociaety biases towards extroversion. People assume introverts are anti social people that are shy and have 0 communication skills and that is not true at all. Some great charismatic leaders are natural introverts. You can be funny, charismatic, confident and social while being an introvert. Usually shyness and anti social behaviour comes from some sort of childhood trauma or conditioning, not because one is "naturally introverted".

Being an introvert is great, it has a lot of benefits. Just like being an extrovert has a lot of benefits. Both have their strenghts and weaknesses. Both have charisma and social skills. They are just displayed in different ways. Introverts tend to be more socially chill, relaxed, witty etc while extroverts tend to be more loud and all including. Each style is better for certain situations.

When someone says to develop extroversion i do not agree with that term. Developing social skills, humour, confidence, etc is NOT developing extroversion. Yes, it is harder for introverts to develop these things than extroverts naturally but it does not mean they naturally will not be able to do so if they interact with people. The whole structure of society is that you have to interact with people, especially during your education. 

I also agree with much of this. There is a bias towards extroversion in the west but it's just that, a bias. I remember reading somewhere that some cultures have a bias towards introversion where they tend to see extroverts as people who lack discipline and impulse control and as a result tend to be less responsible sn more explosive. 

But yeah introvert =/= shy or antisocial. Most of the introverts in my life (myself included) tend to still be social and able to keep up with quality relationships. The only difference I would say between my introverted friends and my extroverted friends are simply how we recreate. I have a couple of acquaintances who love going to raves but they and I know damn well that this isnt a place to drag me into because I wont be having fun in that setting lol.  

I also agree with how developing social skills, humor, and confidence isnt turning yourself into an extrovert. Again, that is that extrovert bias that comes into play again because it's quite obvious that extroverts dont have a monopoly on these traits.

However, where I would differ is to say that extroverts have an easier time developing these traits. Introverts just often have a different way of going about developing these traits. Some of the funniest people I know lean on the quieter side. They have their own style of humor that reflects their authentic perspective. I know a lot of confident and socially adept people who are also really quiet and much of their confidence and ability to socialize comes from things like empathizing and listening really well and not feeling this need to seek validation. And because they know and understand themselves as well as others, they also have no problem being assertive and setting boundaries as necessary. 

Things like humor, confidence, and social skills can look different on introverts and that is perfectly fine. Not only is it fine, its necessary because it would really suck if everyone had the same qualities and skills. The thing is that it's important to work with yourself to improve yourself instead of working against yourself. 

[Lyubov]

I would say the amount of time will vary depending on the person, but the most heavy lifting will be the emotional work and self acceptance. Some guys improve quickly when they commit to getting better with women while others will spend several years going in circle. I would be open to it at the pace it has to for you. Chances are if you have problem with women you have a deeper problem that goes beyond more practical social skills and understanding of social situations. You gotta go deeper if you actually wanna make meaningful and long lasting changes to the surface. 

[JonasVE12]

3 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

If you feel like you have a lot of blocks with your sense of confidence and valuing yourself, maybe in addition to going out, contemplating, talking to someone, or getting a therapist might also be helpful. Why brute force over blocks constantly when you can remove them at the source? 

Because imo, introversion isn't a problem. We need introverts in social settings or else things would get chaotic and people wont be listened to if everyone felt the need to be outgoing. Insecurity is the main issue imo and it's important to acknowledge that because you want to diagnose the problem correctly if you want a good, effective solution. The other reason I stress this is because I think it could potentially be counter productive to go against a large part of who you are and that can come at odds with your sense of authenticity. And sacrificing what makes you unique isn't going to help in social situations to really connect with people. Not to mention, it's also incredibly exhausting to keep up an image that might not even resonate with you in the slightest. There is so much resistance that would be involved and I feel that this is one of those situations that brute forcing it and making yourself go out every weekend for hours might erode you more than it might help you. This would especially be the case since as an introvert, it's likely that you get your energy when you're by yourself. And I also think in order to really value yourself, you also need to value who you are and what your needs and boundaries are rather than morphing yourself into something you're just not. 

Thing is that you don't really know if you are introverted or not until you have removed all of your interpersonal shame. Many introverts feel they get energy when they are alone because that's the only time their nervous system gets time to relax. A very large percentage of introverts are simply introvert because they have supressed shame. These people, when they go out, have to force themself to go out because of anticipated resistance that drives them into apathy, shame and fear. Their mind and nervous system is wrapped around the toxic shame they are identified with. 

To really explore and expand your personality to the point you are not contracted any more by negative supressed emotions needs a very specific approach that involves facing resistance and stepping into tension you are resisting to step into. Then releasing all the triggered emotions surrounding this level of tension you are resisting. Therapy and such can help, but for these people, the real growth lies in an embodiment practice that involves going out and getting triggered for a very long time until you are able to relax, let go, release and integrate & embody higher emotions such as courage, peace and acceptance. This shift in a shame based introvert will set them free to pursue whatever he wants authetically. He is not contracted by shame anymore so he is essentially fully free and authentic in his pursuits.

I think @Javfly33 resonates with going out and approaching strangers so much because he intuitively understands how much closer it will bring him to his full potential and authenticity. It literally a super power. It's the best way to trigger all your self-esteem issues and build a very strong and solid sense of being. Once you are free, your authentic unrestricted creativity and inspiration can really come to the surface and it's beautiful.

Edited October 31, 2021 by JonasVE12

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, JonasVE12 said:

To really explore and expand your personality to the point you are not contracted any more by negative supressed emotions needs a very specific approach that involves facing resistance and stepping into tension you are resisting to step into. Then releasing all the triggered emotions surrounding this level of tension you are resisting. Therapy and such can help, but for these people, the real growth lies in an embodiment practice that involves going out and getting triggered for a very long time until you are able to relax, let go, release and integrate & embody higher emotions such as courage, peace and acceptance. 

@JonasVE12 You have like read my mind today. This was exactly what I have "sensed" in how the work it´s going to be after yesterday's night. Looks grueling work af but at least I have a clear vision of how the work is going to be from now on.