Cheap tendencies

[Raptorsin7]

3 minutes ago, Tangerinedream said:

agree but even the other sections aren’t friendly.  The whole forum lacks compassion and not just towards women but men also.  The only place you can really say doesn’t attack people is the serious emotional problems bit, people have a bit more compassion there.  If you ask a question in the meditation forum you will be met with ridicule for not knowing something. Or you will simply be shut down if you disagree with something.  

That's fair. But I think if you know who to interact with, there are plenty of excellent people to learn from and interact with.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Khr said:

Converging incels is not my goal, and the term incel is very broad to me in general. If in what I am saying the incel is reading that “women only want you for money”, well too bad so sad. My goal is for this place to be respectful and non toxic for women. I understand that you have some kind of low consciousness obsession with helping 16-24 year old guys to get laid, but I am saying if this is a high consciousness place, try to make it inclusive. It’s easy to only care about the feelings and success of a certain one group/audience, it is super easy to appeal to them, it is hard and requires massive skill to pass that same msg while being inclusive and non offensive to everyone. Women keep writing about getting offended, but you don’t give a flying fuck about that and keep arguing with them and proving that you’re doing nothing wrong and they are just “misunderstanding”, this is toxic 101, sexism 101. 

What you define as "toxic" is based on your relative survival agenda.

If I see people here being disrepsectful to women they will be issued warnings.

But not wanting to pay your bills when you go broke is not disrespectful of women, Lol.

[Etherial Cat]

1 hour ago, Tangerinedream said:

@Khr agree with everything you’re saying and it’s not the first time women have complained about the way leo speaks about women.  He has also said several times he would change the way he speaks about women and show more compassion towards us but to no avail of course.  Leo might understand the theory around attracting women to sleep with but he has no experience of a deep loving relationship, so he has no experience on how a loving relationship works. This forum is very unwelcoming for women, its not a place for feminine energy.  When there are no women active on the forum it really does turn Into something from Reddit or an incel forum. 

I do agree with this.

Actually, the day Leo released his video on "How to get laid", I thought about leaving the forum.

While the video itself was better than I expected, it still feels at the bottom like Leo is encouraging his followers to deceive women for the purpose of using them as handkerchief, regardless of feminine welfare.

I'm also not surprised to see many posts coming from a place of hurt and a feeling of betrayal, written by women since then. This seems to be the natural consequence coming from deciding to make of Game a golden standard.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Etherial Cat]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What you define as "toxic" is based on your relative survival agenda.

If I see people here being disrepsectful to women they will be issued warnings.

I've issued 2 complains for seeing this type of post written by one of your mods. 

While the posts themselves are obviously more cringy and stupid than anything else, I'm still wondering why no one has been blushing at that situation?

And why is this person still worthy of assessing whether a person deserves warnings or points taken after being caught writing such backwards bs? 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[TheAlchemist]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What you define as "toxic" is based on your relative survival agenda.

I think comments like this are likely to be interpreted in a way that causes just more pain and conflict, keep in mind most people probably haven't even watched your "understanding survival" series and are not recognizing that what men are doing in relationships is also nothing more than their relative survival agenda. 

I think it might be useful to more explicitly state that what game is, is nothing more than a way to enhance a certain relative survival agenda (male). And how it ties into bias and even identity, these agendas and biases are embedded into being a limited identity that is in a state of scarcity and has needs. Bringing these agendas to awareness without recognizing that they are totally biased can understandably result in lots of pain for people with different biases (women in this case), since they will feel like their identity is being threatened, as conflicting biases are made explicit. 

But also, we all know it's possible to get our needs met without infringing upon someone elses needs or values. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[TheAlchemist]

53 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

While the video itself was better than I expected, it still feels at the bottom like Leo is encouraging his followers to deceive women for the purpose of using them as handkerchief, regardless of feminine welfare.

It would be more constructive and relatable if you could express some feeling you had in relation to some specific statement.

What you stated is not a feeling, but an interpretation. And that is likely to cause more conflict, since someone else is likely to disagree with your interpretation. But no one can disagree with your emotion and if you say what specifically triggered that emotion in you, then people can relate much better.

If you also choose to bring forward a need you have that is not being met when you feel that way, we are already 1000% closer to peace on earth. And this applies to all of us here.

Edited November 12, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[Preety_India]

@Tangerinedreammade a post long ago about these things. Wonder what happened to those promises that were supposedly going to be delivered on in that thread.

 

[Etherial Cat]

5 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

It would be more constructive and relatable if you could express some feeling you had in relation to some specific statement.

What you stated is not a feeling, but an interpretation. And that is likely to cause more conflict, since someone else is likely to disagree with your intepretation. But no one can disagree with your emotion and if you say what specifically triggered that emotion in you, then people can relate much better.

Is it really pertinent to write back a comment relying on such minutiae, knowing there are plenty of individuals (including me) writing in english as a second language?

You should get the gist of what I mean, as it isn't rocket science. Game (as described by Leo) comes off to me as manipulative. And it is used primarily to get into woman's pants (isn't the video named "How to get laid"?).

 

[mememe]

according to developmental theory in spiral dynamics tier two is inclusive, although if a perspective is non inclusive, it can‘t be tier two and there we go: if self-actualization is not inclusive its just not there yet and therefore dissonance. its like wanting to buy wohlegrain and getting standardized error 550 every time.

Edited November 12, 2021 by mememe

[Preety_India]

I kinda resonate with what a lot of women are saying on this thread.. 

I mean women kinda sense it together intuitively if something doesn't feel like it's coming from a genuine place. 

To create a wholesome understanding it's important to "not ignore" what women have to say as dismissive nonsense or the most oft used "the rabbit can't teach the wolf how to hunt," kinda inappropriate in my opinion with regard to dating. 

This won't help at all in understanding a woman's psyche. 

I guess a similar sentiment was expressed by @Emeraldnot long ago.

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Preety_India

[Harlen Kelly]

"What you define as "toxic" is based on your relative survival agenda."

"But not wanting to pay your bills when you go broke is not disrespectful of women, Lol."

One would think this should be common knowledge in a self-development forum, apparently it isn't.

[TheAlchemist]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

Is it really pertinent to write back a comment relying on such minutiae, knowing there are plenty of individuals (including me) writing in english as a second language?

You should get the gist of what I mean, as it isn't rocket science. Game (as described by Leo) comes off to me as manipulative. And it is used primarily to get into woman's pants (isn't the video named "How to get laid"?).

 

My point was not to focus on minutiae, but more as a general point to point out how we often present our interpretations as if they're feelings and then get surprised when others can't decipher the feelings we were wanting to express behind the interpretation. 

Do you feel disempowered? Or uneasy? Or hurt? Maybe that's because you have a need for mutuality, or for inclusion, or communion and Leo talking about how to get laid is internally making you feel distant from those needs.

What you feel and what you need will be totally obvious to you, but I'm trying to help you spell it out more clearly (your feelings and needs) so maybe Leo and others can better understand and relate to your point of view instead of getting defensive.

Then if you want, you can also say what you would like (not demand) for Leo to do or to consider when making videos or comments in relation to which you feel disempowered (or whatever feeling). Only then we can go somewhere from the conflict, Leo can relate to your needs and feelings (since we all have them) and then that is the best possible space for him to change what he does, if he willingly wants to do so. 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[Preety_India]

@Tangerinedream I thought the same. 

 

[Etherial Cat]

13 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

My point was not to focus on minutiae, but more as a general point to point out how we often present our intepretations as if they're feelings and then get surprised when others can't decipher the feelings we were wanting to express behind the intepretation. 

Do you feel disempowered? Or uneasy? Or hurt? Maybe that's because you have a need for mutuality, or for inclusion, or communion and Leo talking about how to get laid is internally making you feel distant from those needs.

What you feel and what you need will be totally obvious to you, but I'm trying to help you spell it out more clearly (your feelings and needs) so maybe Leo and others can better understand and relate to your point of view instead of getting defensive.

Then if you want, you can also say what you would like (not demand) for Leo to do or to consider when making videos or comments in relation to which you feel disempowered (or whatever feeling). Only then we can go somewhere from the conflict, Leo can relate to your needs and feelings (since we all have them) and then that is the best possible space for him to change what he does, if he willingly wants to do so. 

 

You're writing this post like something is wrong with me. 

[Lyubov]

8 hours ago, Khr said:

It’s ok, not everyone is capable of deep intimacy that relationships require. I personally know tons of dudes in their late 30s jumping from one college girl to another. There is nothing creepier than watching that. 

Nothing creepy about that in and of itself. College girls are hot. I’d love to be fucking college chicks into my late 30s. I actually agree with a lot of what you been saying about Leo in here but it’s also clear a lot of your own stuff has been brought into it as well. This probably isn’t the best post I could of made to be agreeing with what you been saying  I think “game” and this overly logical approach to trying to get laid is over represented in here. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Lyubov

[zazen]

Better for men to spend money with women (shared experience) rather than on women (gifts, shopping etc) , until they get very serious into girlfriend territory. Everything in life is transactional, the difference is in quality and degree. The man transacting with a women just for her body, and a women with a man just for his money is a superficial transaction and based on the most lowest of maslows survival needs. This would be the case of a prostitute and the customer. A higher relationship would be to transact with the heart mind and soul of each individual and share that with each other. Transaction is still taking place, but its on a deeper level and of a different quality. It's no longer animalistic and for survival of base desires ie mans need to have sex and woman's to survive. Higher needs are met of emotion connection etc. 

 

Men speak more directly, women indirectly in order to not offend. Evolutionarily women needed the approval of the social group to ensure their survival more so than men, they relied on social ties rather than their own muscular strength that men possessed to survive in the wild. For this reason women are more socially savvy then men also. Men are in general more logical and women emotional. When you see Leo giving advice to men it comes across 'toxic' or 'hurtful' when in reality it could be just helpful and what men need to hear to solve their problems. But seeing how men talk hurts women's sensibilities and triggers an emotional response, hence men need men spaces to talk or what is referred to as 'locker room talk' the way they do. We can't place everything under the banner of misogynistic or distasteful. It is a testament to mans empathy and self -restraint that he doesn't speak as freely around women as women do around men. Men forego some of their natural way of being to make women comfortable.

 

Women in their sensitivity appear to be more empathetic and they are, however mans relative insensitivity allows him to be more empathetic in the sense that when you're not easy to offend, you're better equipped to cater to others, when you're self consumed with emotion this is harder to do.  Men and more so women trust their emotions and act on their emotions almost entirely. This can lead to failing to question, analyse, check and hold their emotions to account. For an emotional person if it feels right then it is right, and this person does not consider that perhaps although some things feel good to hear or believe, they may be logically unsound, false, outright incorrect or otherwise verifiably false.

 

@Etherial Cat @Preety_India @Tangerinedream

Would you rather have men be stronger and embody positive masculinity and social skills ensuring better quality men around for women or rather them not learn social skills (which Leo's latest video is trying to teach and help men with) and grow stronger. The reason for women needing to step into masculine traits at the expense of their femininity which comes more natural to them is because of weaker men in society (various factors for this, modern comfort, food lifestyle etc). This creates insecurity in women that if the men don't take up their positions to ensure a secure environment they'll have to. Hence the unease and women starting to dislike men for letting themselves go in the modern day. Men need to be allowed to discuss and improve, for women's sake and for societies sake and not be labelled toxic or misogynistic when they do. Of course it exists, but when most points are labelled with that, it stops discussion and growth. 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by zazen

[Lyubov]

Also guys, keep in mind it takes a lot of money to look conventionally beautiful. You think salon, nails, laser hair removal / waxing, make up, good skin soaps, etc are cheap? Nothing wrong if your girl doesn’t spend money on this. Just keep in mind if you are jerking off to and doing your little pick up stuff with the goal of getting a chick that gets DMs on Instagram then keep in mind it isn’t cheap to upkeep her look. 

[Jacob Morres]

@Lyubov regarding that, you could say many men need to go through a lot of emotional labor into becoming an attractive man. That definitely balances the scale by far

Edited November 12, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Preety_India]

11 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

 He just shared his experience, and proof that even 5'6 indian guy can get laid a lot.

This statement was kinda unnecessary. 

You could have simply said 5 feet 6 guy but even then it would have been a jab at short men. 

On top of that there was no need to specifically mentioning "Indian."

Not saying that I'm offended but the comment is kinda racially insensitive, offensive and derogatory plus trying to enforce a stereotype 

Lots of hot Indian men 

There was absolutely no need to mention another race. 

 

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, Tangerinedream said:

@Raptorsin7 agree but even the other sections aren’t friendly.  The whole forum lacks compassion and not just towards women but men also.  The only place you can really say doesn’t attack people is the serious emotional problems bit, people have a bit more compassion there.  If you ask a question in the meditation forum you will be met with ridicule for not knowing something. Or you will simply be shut down if you disagree with something.  

I’ve permanently left the spirituality section of this forum. It’s not a discussion, mostly just soap box preachers and people parroting one or two other members on the forum. I think the rest of the forum is great.