Two Questions for Leo: One Metaphysical, One Technical

[julienw]

Hey there Leo,

Thanks for the great content; always a mind-fuck. I am watching the recent Paradox episode and a question came up for me.

At one point you begin to dissect the whole neuroscience paradox regarding chemicals in the brain generating our collective and daily hallucination of reality, therefore rendering the psychedelic experience essentially no different than our normal, everyday hallucination. I totally agree with that. My only question is: why doesn't it stop there? Sure, tripping is a hallucination // sober reality is a hallucination. But what if hallucination is just a mechanism of biological evolution that enabled creatures to survive, and the buck stops there. So I guess my point is, can't we reconcile it all by just saying that yes, everything is a hallucination--including neuroscience, including psychedelics, including the brain...BUT also, when you die that's the end of it and there isn't this infinite self that's immortal and all of reality is just infinite consciousness and Love. I still can see the infinite recursion of mind creating brain and vice versa, but I guess I'm stuck on a biological metaphysics that sees the body as the fundamental unit that allows our experience to be possible, and without it, there would be no experience. (Then of course, maybe no experience does not mean non-existence, but I can say that I do not know that space at all; however if it is "The Unknown," then I'm not sure how to experience a non-experienceable thing).

So I will append this by giving my awakening credentials: literally zero. I've done plenty of psychedelics, and had some glorious experiences for sure, but I cannot say that I had a single awakening experience through all of that. Therefore, I fully accept that the real truth may simply be too radical for my limited consciousness to see, grasp, or understand.

My second question is more a technical one. I posted it on the video but I'm not sure it's as direct a line to you. The question is this: when you are meditating and trying to allow nothing to happen, they say that what you're after is not an experience (kind of like above, i.e. death). But then I find myself trying to not have an experience, which is an experience. What to do to get around this recursion problem?

Cheers,

Julien

[JosephKnecht]

2 hours ago, julienw said:

why doesn't it stop there?

Your mind is trying to conceptualize too much.

You can't think your way to enlightenment. 

2 hours ago, julienw said:

But then I find myself trying to not have an experience, which is an experience. What to do to get around this recursion problem?

Same problem. 

Meditation is a practice that tries to focus your mind on not knowing. 

If you just started your practice recently, try to first focus your attention on your breath(or single object) for 20 minutes. 

Train your attention to focus on something before you can focus on nothing. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, julienw said:

I guess I'm stuck on a biological metaphysics that sees the body as the fundamental unit that allows our experience to be possible, and without it, there would be no experience.

The body is happening within experience, not vice versa.

 

4 hours ago, julienw said:

The question is this: when you are meditating and trying to allow nothing to happen, they say that what you're after is not an experience (kind of like above, i.e. death). But then I find myself trying to not have an experience, which is an experience. What to do to get around this recursion problem?

You cannot not have an experience. Here is a challenge: try having an experience, and then try not having an experience. Can you find the difference?

[Adodd]

8 hours ago, julienw said:

when you are meditating and trying to allow nothing to happen, they say that what you're after is not an experience (kind of like above, i.e. death). But then I find myself trying to not have an experience, which is an experience. 

What kind of meditating are YOU doing? Just curious. Love the user profile picture by the way.

A lot of times when people focus on the breath they control the breath. When you become aware of the breath there is a natural tendency to try to control it. Dont control the breath. YOU dont need to take a breath. Watch the body take a breath... naturaly. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Adodd

[Leo Gura]

To realize the Infinite Self requires awakening. It is not a logical deduction. So that's what you are missing.

Meditation requires a deep letting go. I recommend the do-nothing technique for you, so that you let go of trying to meditate as you meditate. It takes practice to get the hang of it. Yes, the ego-mind want to control meditation and this obstructs true meditation.

[PigeonPark]

When you do the "do nothing" technique, do you let go control of your awareness? Would a meditator be doing it wrong if he tries to be more aware?

[lmfao]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

To realize the Infinite Self requires awakening. It is not a logical deduction. So that's what you are missing.

Meditation requires a deep letting go. I recommend the do-nothing technique for you, so that you let go of trying to meditate as you meditate. It takes practice to get the hang of it. Yes, the ego-mind want to control meditation and this obstructs true meditation.

@Leo Gura Does practicing "letting go" make someone weaker?
There's a counterexample which would answer this question with no, and I'm maybe a bit of an idiot for not seeing it, overall though I'm not sure. Not sure whether it would help me (lol) or make things better. But I want to see what you say 

Edited October 28, 2021 by lmfao

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, PigeonPark said:

When you do the "do nothing" technique, do you let go control of your awareness? Would a meditator be doing it wrong if he tries to be more aware?

You let go of all effort and manipulation of yourself and your experience.

Zero manipulation.

28 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@Leo Gura Does practicing "letting go" make someone weaker?

No, it makes you stronger.

Not being able to let go of a thing is a weakness.

[GreenWoods]

11 hours ago, julienw said:

. I still can see the infinite recursion of mind creating brain and vice versa,

No vice versa. The mind creates the brain. The brain doesn't create the mind.

11 hours ago, julienw said:

. But what if hallucination is just a mechanism of biological evolution that enabled creatures to survive, and the buck stops there.

biological, evolution, creatures, survival. All imagination/hallucination.

11 hours ago, julienw said:

I guess I'm stuck on a biological metaphysics that sees the body as the fundamental unit that allows our experience to be possible, and without it, there would be no experience.

Consciousness/Mind imagines the body. The body is not required at all. 

Theoretically, you could be decapitated and life could go on exactly like before, with the same visual and hearing and smell appearances. But in this current dream, God creates correlating with science's story of perception. Therefore better not get decapitated in this dream.

What happens if you lose your head in a night dream? Perceptions could theoretically still continue right? Life is a dream.

11 hours ago, julienw said:

My second question is more a technical one. I posted it on the video but I'm not sure it's as direct a line to you. The question is this: when you are meditating and trying to allow nothing to happen, they say that what you're after is not an experience (kind of like above, i.e. death). But then I find myself trying to not have an experience, which is an experience. What to do to get around this recursion problem?

IMO, everything within Existence is God's experience.

From the imaginary ego's POV you could get technical and distinguish between experience and non experience. I wouldn't do that. Too confusing and only a mind game.

[wellbranding]

You can read my story. I got very profound awakening/close to permanent enlightenment through raw meditation and contemplation. Though I am not meditating for 3 weeks now, since I need to learn Kriya yoga, otherwise my physical body might stop functioning. 

 

[Guest EmptyVase]

@lmfao

I'm interested to hear your perspective. Where do you see weakness in letting go?