There's no way out of suffering.

[BipolarGrowth]

7 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@BipolarGrowth I remember infinite consciousness as a 7 year old child.

Nothingness when I was 16.

(I'm 23 now)

All of the vipassana nanas and samata jhanas.

Stream entry is a joke compared to the knowledges of suffering. I wish it wasn't.

If you want to classify me somewhere, it would be 2nd or 3rd path.

What's bringing non-doership and enlightenment to the next level has something to do with suffering outside of formal practice.

Well that’s good. How do you define suffering personally? 
 

I’ve noticed a huge shift for myself in how suffering is. It’s reduced heavily. I imagine by even higher paths it will be even less. 
 

“What's bringing non-doership and enlightenment to the next level has something to do with suffering outside of formal practice.” 

I agree with this totally. Maybe try using Krishna’s advice on devotional service with the added ability to practice it more effectively with your added vipassana and mindfulness skills. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

There's no special methods you can use to get liberated.

Absolutely true. There is nothing special about meditation. Other than cessation, self realization and the end of suffering. 

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Suffering teaches you to get away from it. There's no path to eliminate suffering, it's a buddhist marketing scheme.

The four noble truths & eightfold path, paired with meditation, bring an end to suffering. Ignorance & cynicism are thought activity which settles & quiets in and technically as the meditative mind. In hindsight those are seen as the suffering.  

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To eliminate suffering there's just: get away from it, and live life as you're supposed to.

Which one of us defines that ‘supposed to’? See the issue there?  Thoughts won’t do. 

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Working with suffering is like training not to burn yourself with a candle. The longer you put your finger in the flame, the more you should understand that you shouldn't do that. That's true on the level of survival of the body and at the level of mind.

Amen to that.

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Unfortunately our minds are too complicated for it to be easy, that's why there are tools like psychotherapy and antidepressants that fix the unproductive thought-patterns.

Not to imply in any way that anyone shouldn’t utilize those resources… but you’re highlighting meditation there. There’s just one apparent thought at a time. That’s it. Really open-mindedly lend that some consideration. Connect the dots here to conditioning… the settling of thought activity via meditation… and this unconditional thingy everyone’s talking about. Sometimes we get a lot of momentum going in the direction of suffering from believing thoughts, but there is nonetheless, for you me and everyone else, one apparent thought at a time. It is easy. Finite minds are not only not complicated, they are only an appearance. The reach for solutions is the aversion of feeling… while the best case scenario, is expression, as the releasing of the conditioning. What remains is unconditional, and there truly are no words which can communicate just how worthwhile the endeavor of meditation and expression is. It’s not a matter of luck, randomness, coincidence…

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In the end. Don't put your finger in the flame. The question is when you're gonna learn that you don't have to burn yourself.

The path to enlightenment is pointless. It's a process that's naturally happening, spirituality is just accelerating it. Nothing more.

Also, I believe it has something to do with the DNA, extraterrestrials implanted in us as an experiment to accelerate evolution. They put complicated minds in monkeys, in order for us to be able to have such an innovative exponential intelligence-boom.

But the last part's far fetched though, but not impossible.

…dna, extraterrestrials, or monkeys… and it is most definitely not related in any way to one’s intelligence. That’s a thought, like evolution, or past. 

[Zeroguy]

There is no suffering in present. Love is eternal. 

[Breakingthewall]

@Endangered-EGO its totally possible forget the suffering, if you transcend your ego. In fact, if you transcend it, you feel a bit ashamed to have suffered so much from those stupidities. it is a matter of a moment. It is the art that we are learning here, right? understanding, meditation, psychedelics. serious work doing whatever it takes to do, and you're totally free. I remember you wrote that you have never done psychedelics except cannabis. they are a fundamental tool. Without them you will be a lifetime of psychotherapy, going around. you have to rise. Be prisoner of that shit is a shame, life is not for that. Do psychedelic until you melt your brain if it's necessary, meditate 5 hours per day, anything, but get free of that crazyness

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Endangered-EGO]

10 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Well that’s good. How do you define suffering personally? 
 

I’ve noticed a huge shift for myself in how suffering is. It’s reduced heavily. I imagine by even higher paths it will be even less. 
 

“What's bringing non-doership and enlightenment to the next level has something to do with suffering outside of formal practice.” 

I agree with this totally. Maybe try using Krishna’s advice on devotional service with the added ability to practice it more effectively with your added vipassana and mindfulness skills. 

@BipolarGrowth But man, don't you get it. Anytime there's progress. One step forward dukkha comes back stronger.

One step forward, and then dukkha bites you in the ass. 2 steps backwards.

Concentration on objects of awareness --> AnP (finally bliss from God) --> intense meaningless suffering --> equanimity and non-doership.

 

Every cycle of the path gets more intense. Life cycles. Phase of life cycles. Yearly cycles. Monthly cycles. Daily cycles.

I am absolutely sure that full enlightenment is no more cycle,or cycles just being instants.

 

Anicca (impermanence) and annata (no-self) also grow stronger with dukkha (suffering).

How I define suffering:

Suffering is in everything. Just take any object of awareness and tell me there's no suffering in that point of focus. Sufferings little brother is called "aversion" imo.

Anything awareness does is pushing awareness away from the object towards itself. That's suffering, and it ends with complete dissociation from any object. The opposite of grasping or attachment.

 

Suffering is not reduced in higher paths. It's equalized. Theres no longer gonna be a big difference between mild discomfort and intense physical suffering.

The intensity of suffering that increases, just pushes towards cessation or dissolution anytime it shows up. For what I've heard that's thousands of instances per day of cessation.

[Endangered-EGO]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Absolutely true. There is nothing special about meditation. Other than cessation, self realization and the end of suffering. 

The four noble truths & eightfold path, paired with meditation, bring an end to suffering. Ignorance & cynicism are thought activity which settles & quiets in and technically as the meditative mind. In hindsight those are seen as the suffering.  

Which one of us defines that ‘supposed to’? See the issue there?  Thoughts won’t do. 

Amen to that.

Not to imply in any way that anyone shouldn’t utilize those resources… but you’re highlighting meditation there. There’s just one apparent thought at a time. That’s it. Really open-mindedly lend that some consideration. Connect the dots here to conditioning… the settling of thought activity via meditation… and this unconditional thingy everyone’s talking about. Sometimes we get a lot of momentum going in the direction of suffering from believing thoughts, but there is none he less, for you me and everyone else, one apparent thought at a time. It is easy. Finite minds are not only not complicated, they are only an appearance. The reach for solutions is the aversion of feeling… while the best case scenario, is expression, as the releasing of the conditioning. What remains is unconditional, and there truly are no words which can communicate just how worthwhile the endeavor of meditation and expression is. It’s not a matter of luck, randomness, coincidence…

…dna, extraterrestrials, monkeys… and it is most definitely not related in any way to one’s intelligence. That’s a thought, like evolution, or past. 

I'm on mobile so sorry for the format.

I didn't include meditation with psychotherapy and antidepressants, because meditation doesn't happen at the level of mind. Meditation doesn't fix the mind.

 

Please answer that question or tell me if that's your intuition.

If suffering shows up in thought, does the mind shut itself down the instant it shows up in order to protect itself from itself? Did 'your mind' (de)condition itself to let go of suffering the instant it shows up?

Is there a big "gone" the instant suffering shows up?

 

About the evolution and aliens. Yes, I'm aware that's useless to think about. I just wrote it, to make sense of humans compared to 'other animals'.

[Endangered-EGO]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Endangered-EGO its totally possible forget the suffering, if you transcend your ego. In fact, if you transcend it, you feel a bit ashamed to have suffered so much from those stupidities. it is a matter of a moment. It is the art that we are learning here, right? understanding, meditation, psychedelics. serious work doing whatever it takes to do, and you're totally free. Be prisoner of that shit is a shame, life is not for that. Do psychedelic until you melt your brain if it's necessary, meditate 5 hours per day, anything, but get free of that crazyness

 

@Breakingthewall I'm not sure any amount of psychedelics or excessive meditation is gonna do any good except accelerate the process. Which could be good in human-time tbh.

But then again. What's the point of quantifying it.

I don't know when full enlightenment is going to happen/be. I just have "this" right now.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

I didn't include meditation with psychotherapy and antidepressants, because meditation doesn't happen at the level of mind. Meditation doesn't fix the mind.

 

@Endangered-EGO meditation totally fix the mind. meditation makes you see what the mind is. psychedelics are an aid to meditation. meditation is the key. It is the most important thing, more than your girlfriend, your job or even physical health. I think you still haven't understood what the ego trap is

[Nahm]

16 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

I'm on mobile so sorry for the format.

I didn't include meditation with psychotherapy and antidepressants, because meditation doesn't happen at the level of mind. Meditation doesn't fix the mind.

Please answer that question or tell me if that's your intuition.

Meditation happens at the “level” of mind because “levels” is a thought / thought activity / thought attachment / a belief, or in this case conjecture. 

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If suffering shows up in thought, does the mind shut itself down the instant it shows up in order to protect itself from itself?

If it did there wouldn’t be this suffering talked about, so no. Suffering doesn’t show up in thought though. Suffering is the discord between a thought and our true nature. Posted a video explaining precisely this today if interested. 

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Did 'your mind' (de)condition itself to let go of suffering the instant it shows up?

More or less yes. 

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Is there a big "gone" the instant suffering shows up?

Not sure what you mean by that. If you mean like some kind of avarice maneuver, no.  But if you mean a non doing or a bringing the mind to absolute stillness / no activity, then yes. Suffering is discordant thoughts, without repeatedly focusing on discordant thoughts suffering doesn’t ‘show up’. It’s like letting the focus on discordant thought go, and you ‘arrive at’ contemned on the emotional scale. And from there delightful, insightful, exciting thoughts arise, just like & indicative of the ‘higher’ as in better feeling emotions on the scale.     If anything, there is a ‘big gone’ when suffering goes, as the entirety of the concept of a sufferer (separate self) goes as well. 

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About the evolution and aliens. Yes, I'm aware that's useless to think about. I just wrote it, to make sense of humans compared to 'other animals'.

 Nothing wrong with being open minded. I might be an alien, you don’t know. A human is nothing like an animal, but thought makes it seem so. Check, name anything which is aware. 

[BipolarGrowth]

31 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@BipolarGrowth But man, don't you get it. Anytime there's progress. One step forward dukkha comes back stronger.

One step forward, and then dukkha bites you in the ass. 2 steps backwards.

Concentration on objects of awareness --> AnP (finally bliss from God) --> intense meaningless suffering --> equanimity and non-doership.

 

Every cycle of the path gets more intense. Life cycles. Phase of life cycles. Yearly cycles. Monthly cycles. Daily cycles.

I am absolutely sure that full enlightenment is no more cycle,or cycles just being instants.

 

Anicca (impermanence) and annata (no-self) also grow stronger with dukkha (suffering).

How I define suffering:

Suffering is in everything. Just take any object of awareness and tell me there's no suffering in that point of focus. Sufferings little brother is called "aversion" imo.

Anything awareness does is pushing awareness away from the object towards itself. That's suffering, and it ends with complete dissociation from any object. The opposite of grasping or attachment.

 

Suffering is not reduced in higher paths. It's equalized. Theres no longer gonna be a big difference between mild discomfort and intense physical suffering.

The intensity of suffering that increases, just pushes towards cessation or dissolution anytime it shows up. For what I've heard that's thousands of instances per day of cessation.

Yeah, that’s the process in my eyes in a nutshell too. Would you rather be a chimpanzee or a human? 

[Endangered-EGO]

12 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Yeah, that’s the process in my eyes in a nutshell too. Would you rather be a chimpanzee or a human? 

@BipolarGrowth How could I know I'm biased towards being human. So I would chose human. I'm biased to believe that beimg s chimpanzee is worse than being a human. That's only a belief though.

[RMQualtrough]

If you stop suffering, others still are. But ofc they're you. So yeah you can't get out of it.

[Ry4n]

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@VeganAwake  it always points back to some abstract me in the body that has no real substance or another thought, story about a suffering self.

Does that type of self inquiry consists of seeing that suffering points to no real/consistent "sufferer"?

Sometimes it can break up these habitual patterns of feeding this so-called sense of self constant energy and attention...

Sometimes when its clearly seen that this assumed identity isn't real, the energy that went into upholding this self structure can relax and dissipate on its own accord.

There is no method though because there already isn't any real separate self.

"Much ado about nothing" 

 

[Ilan]

Deliciously scary

[WokeBloke]

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who is in suffering. One is not always suffering thus there must be a way out of suffering.

[Epikur]

The Role of Mindfulness in Healing and Resilience | Jewel Kilcher, Soren Gordhamer | Wisdom 2.0

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Epikur

[Endangered-EGO]

I think there are 2 things that, if not beat suffering, are as strong as it. Those 2 aspects of existence are impermanence and no-self. In EVERY INSTANCE of experience.

So I guess buddhism might not be such misleading marketing scheme as I thought.

[Breakingthewall]

22 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

 

@Endangered-EGO i have read several of your posts and it is clear that you are someone who has studied spirituality. you would have read a hundred times that suffering is a strategy of your ego to stay strong. It is exactly like that, you are creating suffering and when you realize it you will think: what an idiot I have been. the key is: understand what the ego is. There is only one way to understand the ego, deactivating it and seeing how it activates again. If you don't do this, it is impossible for you to understand it because it would be the ego trying to understand the ego, from a reality that is only ego. completely impossible.  break the ego, then it restructures itself and you see it. do this a hundred times, a thousand, and you will understand exactly what it is. There are two ways. meditation and psychedelics. and that's it.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Endangered-EGO]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Endangered-EGO i have read several of your posts and it is clear that you are someone who has studied spirituality. you would have read a hundred times that suffering is a strategy of your ego to stay strong. It is exactly like that, you are creating suffering and when you realize it you will think: what an idiot I have been. the key is: understand what the ego is. There is only one way to understand the ego, deactivating it and seeing how it activates again. If you don't do this, it is impossible for you to understand it because it would be the ego trying to understand the ego, from a reality that is only ego. completely impossible.  break the ego, then it restructures itself and you see it. do this a hundred times, a thousand, and you will understand exactly what it is. There are two ways. meditation and psychedelics. and that's it.

@Breakingthewall That reminds me of a zen phrase: "the seeker is the sought".

As soon as there's the intention to look for something; either "escape from suffering", "finding the permanent subject" or "the self", the ego-self (as effort) is itself in the way of true presence.

 

Is this (paraphrased) what you mean?

 

Damn I've spent at least 5000 hours meditating, contemplating, reading, listening to podcast, watching videos. I certainly hope thay I'm not a "beginner".