There's no way out of suffering.

[Endangered-EGO]

There's no special methods you can use to get liberated.

Suffering teaches you to get away from it. There's no path to eliminate suffering, it's a buddhist marketing scheme.

To eliminate suffering there's just: get away from it, and live life as you're supposed to.

Working with suffering is like training not to burn yourself with a candle. The longer you put your finger in the flame, the more you should understand that you shouldn't do that. That's true on the level of survival of the body and at the level of mind.

Unfortunately our minds are too complicated for it to be easy, that's why there are tools like psychotherapy and antidepressants that fix the unproductive thought-patterns.

In the end. Don't put your finger in the flame. The question is when you're gonna learn that you don't have to burn yourself.

The path to enlightenment is pointless. It's a process that's naturally happening, spirituality is just accelerating it. Nothing more.

Also, I believe it has something to do with the DNA, extraterrestrials implanted in us as an experiment to accelerate evolution. They put complicated minds in monkeys, in order for us to be able to have such an innovative exponential intelligence-boom.

But the last part's far fetched though, but not impossible.

[Terell Kirby]

You're right that there's no way out of suffering.

However, there is a way to come to love it. This is our spiritual aim.

[Endangered-EGO]

2 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

You're right that there's no way out of suffering.

However, there is a way to come to love it. This is our spiritual aim.

@Terell Kirby Good luck with that. I differentiate pain from suffering.

Loving pain is possible, suffering not so much. Loving suffering would mean no suffering.

[Terell Kirby]

4 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Loving suffering would mean no suffering.

How could you love something that you wish didn't exist? The ego's game is to prefer one thing over another...which doesn't allow you to transcend suffering by becoming Infinite.

Becoming whole will free you. It's also a choice you have to make, no one will do it for you.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Terell Kirby

[TheAlchemist]

Do you think there is a continuum between ultimate suffering and zero suffering? Do you think we can still reduce suffering, although you say we can't totally eliminate it? 

Edited October 25, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[Endangered-EGO]

5 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

Do you think there is a continuum between ultimate suffering and zero suffering? Do you think we can still reduce suffering, although you say we can't totally eliminate it? 

@TheAlchemist Well of course there's a continuum of suffering. But the only thing you can do about it, is to get away from it with any means necessary. Suffering is there to reduce itself for survival.

But then, there's still always gonna be suffering. There's never gonna be a break from suffering in duality. I have yet to find anything (except non-existence and emptiness which are technically not  things), that doesn't include suffering.

But suffering is like any other thing, discontinuous, wavy frequencies etc. So it's sometimes non-existant. But so is the rest of qualia.

You can also train the mind to not graps uncomfortable things, like thoughts, by training it to recognize dukka and allow jyt to back off objects as soon as it recognises suffering in that object. I'm not yet a master at that, but that's usually how thoughts stop during meditation.

[VeganAwake]

See if the sufferer can be pinpointed?

Where is it located?

What does it consist of?

[Tim R]

47 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Also, I believe it has something to do with the DNA, extraterrestrials implanted in us as an experiment to accelerate evolution. They put complicated minds in monkeys, in order for us to be able to have such an innovative exponential intelligence-boom.

But the last part's far fetched though, but not impossible.

Not sure if I'm more inclined to believe this or Terence McKenna's stoned ape theory lol?

@Endangered-EGO Getting away from suffering is the suffering (but I know that you already know this).

So yes, it's impossible to get away from suffering. 

If suffering is the attempt of getting away from suffering, then trying to get away from suffering is like trying to draw a square circle. It's meaningless. It's not a real problem because there's no way of solving it.

The only way of "solving it" is by dis-solving it; the alleged problem - which is "I". 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Endangered-EGO said:

There's no special methods you can use to get liberated.

Growth.

 

1 hour ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Also, I believe it has something to do with the DNA, extraterrestrials implanted in us as an experiment to accelerate evolution. They put complicated minds in monkeys, in order for us to be able to have such an innovative exponential intelligence-boom.

If it happened in aliens, it can happen in humans.

[Endangered-EGO]

22 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

See if the sufferer can be pinpointed?

Where is it located?

What does it consist of?

@VeganAwake  it always points back to some abstract me in the body that has no real substance or another thought, story about a suffering self.

Does that type of self inquiry consists of seeing that suffering points to no real/consistent "sufferer"?

 

21 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Not sure if I'm more inclined to believe this or Terence McKenna's stoned ape theory lol?

@Endangered-EGO Getting away from suffering is the suffering (but I know that you already know this).

So yes, it's impossible to get away from suffering. 

If suffering is the attempt of getting away from suffering, then trying to get away from suffering is like trying to draw a square circle. It's meaningless. It's not a real problem because there's no way of solving it.

The only way of "solving it" is by dis-solving it; the alleged problem - which is "I". 

@Tim R Just think about the explosion of meta-cognition in the human. In theory intelligence could delevop by natural selection. But there was an explosion, that caused the mind to expand for complex and abstract intelligence and communication. This could also be a natural positive reinforcement loop. Intelligence desiring more intelligence, but it didn't happen in the 100 000 other species. Today's explanation is the opposable thumb with the ability to communicate. I don't buy that that's enough.

 

The fact that there is such a flawed existence of duality and original sin, and methods to overcome a conditioned sense of self, points towards an anomaly in humans.

For example dogs have been bred to be intelligent, Border-Collies, can develop psychological issues like OCD, and that happened in a few thousand years. Humans manipulated dogs in such a short time.

 

This kind of accelerated evolution is not definite proof of another species manipulation, but it's still extraordinary.

The issue is still the "I", I get it.

 

26 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Growth.

 

If it happened in aliens, it can happen in humans.

@Carl-Richard As I said, it's an alien mind in a monkey brain. The alien mind needs to find a way to adapt to a monkeys existence.

[Breakingthewall]

suffering is the distortion created by the ego between be and should be. equalize them and magic! harmony. A few touches on the be, if it's possible, and if not, soften the should be until it is exactly the same as the be. It is not easy, but it is completely possible

[Godishere]

Suffering is there to keep you asleep in my experience. It's just part of the infinite dream; sensations you buy into as real and to keep a sense of self.

[Vincent S]

Thank you for your post ??   

I broke down in suffering a few weeks ago.             
A voice I never thought would come through me, used this vessel to send me the message I needed.

How can I ever come wake you up from your dream if all of your dreams are good and pleasant? You would be stuck in the illusion forever…

I think suffering is there as a reminder that “we” have bought in the illusion and identification with thoughts, identity, separateness and duality to much.

Think of it as the ribbed edges of highway roads. When you don’t pay attention to them or when you fall asleep on the road, they quickly wake you up with the vibrating noise your car “vessel” makes when you drive over them.

Its just there for yourself to guide yourself back to your original Self. Because your finite self don’t think it will be at peace unless it’s the Infinite Self, in every sense of what that word might mean for You.

 But thats also a thought and a mechanism that comes from the separateness illusion.

You are already perfect and love, you just want to know that you are before you disappear in nothingness again.  

Edited October 25, 2021 by Vincent S

[Endangered-EGO]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

suffering is the distortion created by the ego between be and should be. equalize them and magic! harmony. A few touches on the be, if it's possible, and if not, soften the should be until it is exactly the same as the be. It is not easy, but it is completely possible

@Breakingthewall Unfortunately, that's true, I know that, and suffering is still a big issue for me.

I'm sorry for claiming such a thing even though there's still a struggle going on for me. I kind of doubt myself that what I said about the distance between "what is" and "what should be" could be nonsense.

However I believe that this still was a valid realisation. Just adding that suffering is what is, and that the mind sees the impermanence of suffering and gradually learns to let go of it the instant it recognises it.

Thank you for pointing the hypocrisy of my insights to me. Any dramatic instantaneous reduction in suffering is an insight to me. However I still believe they are valid, even though I tend to forget them, or lose the taste of purification.

[Endangered-EGO]

13 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

Thank you for your post ??   

I broke down in suffering a few weeks ago.             
A voice I never thought would come through me, used this vessel to send me the message I needed.

How can I ever come wake you up from your dream if all of your dreams are good and pleasant? You would be stuck in the illusion forever…

I think suffering is there as a reminder that “we” have bought in the illusion and identification with thoughts, identity, separateness and duality to much.

Think of it as the ribbed edges of highway roads. When you don’t pay attention to them or when you fall asleep on the road, they quickly wake you up with the vibrating noise your car “vessel” makes when you drive over them.

Its just there for yourself to guide yourself back to your original Self. Because your finite self don’t think it will be at peace unless it’s the Infinite Self, in every sense of what that word might mean for You.

 But thats also a thought and a mechanism that comes from the separateness illusion.

You are already perfect and love, you just want to know that you are before you disappear in nothingness again.  

@Vincent S Yes, that's my point. Suffering is an indicator and not something to be transcended. There's just nothing to be done about it except "listen to it"

[Vincent S]

1 minute ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Vincent S Yes, that's my point. Suffering is an indicator and not something to be transcended. There's just nothing to be done about it except "listen to it"

Yes ????

[Breakingthewall]

I understand you, I have ruminated a lot of shit too. Lately it seems that I manage to equalize, but I have only achieved it based on total transcendence of the ego, dissolving it with psychedelics many times and meditating many hours a day. if not, all the dysfunctional shit I have ever eaten is there, waiting to say: hello! Deep down they mark the way for me: there is no viable ego for me, my father, a true crack, guides me along the path of transcendence. If it weren't for him, I'd be doing any mindless idiocy to death, so love for him

[BipolarGrowth]

Have you reached stream entry yet to be even remotely qualified to speak on how Buddhist practice may or may not be a path out of suffering? 
 

If not, you’re shooting in the dark and likely don’t know what you’re talking about. 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Breakingthewall I feel you man. I would love to hear more about your oersonal suffering. It seems like nobody really talks about it here on this forum because they either only want to talk about the highsz or they don't know what to say about suffering.

The few things I've learned about it can be put into a few points.

1. Suffering is not possible to transform/manipulate. It ALWAYS lasts longer than one is willing/ar to endure.

2. Suffering is the non-acceptance of what's occuring.

3. Suffering can't be ignored. It's whats screams. It's the master. It shows what should be avoided by being what it is. It's an existential bond that has a whip and doesn't hesitate to use it.

 

We're basically "slaves of dukka". I will change my name on this forum to slave of dukka.

 

[Endangered-EGO]

1 minute ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Have you reached stream entry yet to be even remotely qualified to speak on how Buddhist practice may or may not be a path out of suffering? 
 

If not, you’re shooting in the dark and likely don’t know what you’re talking about. 

@BipolarGrowth I remember infinite consciousness as a 7 year old child.

Nothingness when I was 16.

(I'm 23 now)

All of the vipassana nanas and samata jhanas.

Stream entry is a joke compared to the knowledges of suffering. I wish it wasn't.

If you want to classify me somewhere, it would be 2nd or 3rd path.

What's bringing non-doership and enlightenment to the next level has something to do with suffering outside of formal practice.