How to feel equal or higher value than beautiful girls

[Gesundheit2]

@mandyjw

10 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 

manipulate (v.)

1827, "to handle skillfully by hand," a back-formation from manipulation. As "to manage by mental influence," especially for one's own purposes, is by 1864. Financial sense is from 1870. By 1949 it served as a euphemism for "masturbate."  https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=manipulate

The hand wants what it wants ?

10 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

You only manipulate yourself.

Are you sure?

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@mandyjw

The hand wants what it wants ?

?‍♂️ The hand wants that? 

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Are you sure?

Seems that you can manipulate others, sure, but if you're aware that this is a universe with no exclusion, you would only do that out of ignorance. 

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Women are incapable of reciprocating man’s love. They love differently. There is a hierarchy of love that trickles down.

Is love a thought? Can love be measured? Does love come from a specific direction? 

[zazen]

18 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Is love a thought? Can love be measured? Does love come from a specific direction? 

It can on a biochemical level, but there are different types of love. The english language is poor compared to others in defining love, for example arabic has 10 types of love, or latin has eros/romantic, agape/unconditional, philia/friend love. It is a thought, emotion, physical and metaphysical all at once. Hard to define and yet we must define it for it is always, in all ways. 

 

 

[mandyjw]

@zazen define (v.)

late 14c., deffinen, diffinen, "to specify; to fix or establish authoritatively;" of words, phrases, etc., "state the signification of, explain what is meant by, describe in detail," from Old French defenir, definir "to finish, conclude, come to an end; bring to an end; define, determine with precision," and directly from Medieval Latin diffinire, definire, from Latin definire "to limit, determine, explain," from de "completely" (see de-) + finire "to bound, limit," from finis "boundary, end" (see finish (v.)). From c. 1400 as "determine, declare, or mark the limit of." Related: Defined; defining. https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=define

So if I were to define love I'd say that it is boundless and unlimited. But only by ignoring the definition of define can I do this, I've totally paradoxed myself. 

 

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

arabic has 10 types of love,

12 degrees (from lower to higher):

1. Shaghaf: A thin layer upon the heart (synonymous with epicardium).
2. Wajd: Attachment and misery.
3. Hawa: Falling in love.
4. Sabwa: Turning drunk by desire.
5. Najwa: A burning feeling and sadness added on top of Wajd.
6. Shawq: Non-stop thinking, missing, and reminiscing about the loved one.
7. Wasb: Love as a disease that exhausts the lover.
8. Istikanah: Total submission and surrendering to the loved one.
9. Gharam: Irresistible and inescapable desire to be with the loved one.
10. Huyam: Insanity, melting, and getting lost inside of love. The only guidance is the loved one.
11. Wudd: The purest bonds of love and empathy and tenderness for the loved one.
12. Khullah: Merging with the loved one and becoming one with them, with no place or space for anyone or anything else.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Gesundheit2
Forgot #7, and a few minor edits.

[zazen]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

@zazen define (v.)

late 14c., deffinen, diffinen, "to specify; to fix or establish authoritatively;" of words, phrases, etc., "state the signification of, explain what is meant by, describe in detail," from Old French defenir, definir "to finish, conclude, come to an end; bring to an end; define, determine with precision," and directly from Medieval Latin diffinire, definire, from Latin definire "to limit, determine, explain," from de "completely" (see de-) + finire "to bound, limit," from finis "boundary, end" (see finish (v.)). From c. 1400 as "determine, declare, or mark the limit of." Related: Defined; defining. https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=define

So if I were to define love I'd say that it is boundless and unlimited. But only by ignoring the definition of define can I do this, I've totally paradoxed myself. 

 

Love is so fine it can't be defined, we can at least attempt to put the limitless into the limits that is our logic and to have some grasp of reality. Love with a capital L at least doesn't come to an end, it is a process. The other kinds of love (lower case) animal, familial etc do as they are bound by form. We are bound by the boundaries of biology and the material and yet, something more in us is boundless. 

 

@Gesundheit2 nice share!

 

[mandyjw]

@Gesundheit2 All of those are just words for suffering except Wudd. 

Except the words "bonds" and "for the loved one". Still might be suffering. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by mandyjw

[zazen]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Gesundheit2 All of those are just words for suffering except Wudd. 

Most other types of love include pain to an extent as they are impermanent. The pain of pleasure is in trying to maintain that pleasure, fear of losing that pleasure, and eventually losing that pleasure. Lower case love is in flux and in relationships has to be constantly worked at and maintained. 

 

The only permanence is impermanence when it comes to lower case love. Thats why pure love, with a capital L that Leo talks about is really what we all seek and will bring peace. This is derailing the thread so will stop replying at this level of detail lol.

Edited October 27, 2021 by zazen

[mandyjw]

Just now, zazen said:

Thats why pure love, with a capital L that Leo talks about is really what we all seek and will bring peace.

That's all there already is. It's not that it will bring peace, it just is that. But to avoid the recognition/enjoyment/Knowledge of it, you say women are incapable of the "higher" love men are capable of, so you cut yourself off. No need of that. 

You're free to define things how you'd like, and pay the fines. 

[Gesundheit2]

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Gesundheit2 All of those are just words for suffering except Wudd. 

Except the words "bonds" and "for the loved one". Still might be suffering. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layla_and_Majnun

"

Qays ibn al-Mullawah fell in love with Layla al-Aamiriya. He soon began composing poems about his love for her, mentioning her name often. His unselfconscious efforts to woo the girl caused some locals to call him "Majnun." When he asked for her hand in marriage, her father refused because it would be a scandal for Layla to marry someone considered mentally unbalanced. Soon after, Layla was married to another noble and rich merchant belonging to the Thaqif tribe in Ta'if. He was described as a handsome man with reddish complexion whose name was Ward Althaqafi. The Arabs called him Ward, meaning "rose" in Arabic.

When Majnun heard of her marriage, he fled the tribal camp and began wandering the surrounding desert. His family eventually gave up hope for his return and left food for him in the wilderness. He could sometimes be seen reciting poetry to himself or writing in the sand with a stick.

Layla is generally depicted as having moved to a place in Northern Arabia with her husband, where she became ill and eventually died. In some versions, Layla dies of heartbreak from not being able to see her would-be lover. Majnun was later found dead in the wilderness in 688 AD, near Layla's grave. He had carved three verses of poetry on a rock near the grave, which are the last three verses attributed to him.

Many other minor incidents happened between his madness and his death. Most of his recorded poetry was composed before his descent into madness.

I pass by this town, the town of Layla
And I kiss this wall and that wall
It’s not Love of the town that has enraptured my heart
But of the One who dwells within this town

"

[mandyjw]

10 minutes ago, zazen said:

This is derailing the thread so will stop replying at this level of detail lol.

To the contrary, how f-ing beautiful that it's still purely on topic. 

How to feel... Higher, higher, higher. 

https://youtu.be/dTYOkcRH220

 

 

[zazen]

17 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

That's all there already is. It's not that it will bring peace, it just is that. But to avoid the recognition/enjoyment/Knowledge of it, you say women are incapable of the "higher" love men are capable of, so you cut yourself off. No need of that. 

You're free to define things how you'd like, and pay the fines. 

That was a copy paste from elsewhere, not my words, hence the quotation marks. The author wasn't referring to love with a capital L whether they are even aware of it or not but more so biological realities of male/female dynamics. Love is fluid and can change, what starts as romantic love in relationships often becomes familial, and so the sex / attraction dries up as incest isn't natural. Keeping this romantic love alive takes effort, understanding and work on both parties. 

It's not higher, lower its different kinds of love. Of course man also has conditions for his love, but women come with a much greater list of conditions and rightly so for they are more vulnerable and have more to lose in the birthing process. By nature they need to be selective in choosing a mate. Women are more unconditional in their love towards children.  

The forms love take are equally different. Equal in value, yet different in practice. Like the fingers on your hand, they are all different yet equally valued for their role. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by zazen

[mandyjw]

@Gesundheit2 He composed, lost his composure and then decomposed. The Romeo and Juliet of the East. I Am Shakespeare, I don't come from east or west. 

What of love? 

[mandyjw]

11 minutes ago, zazen said:

Women are more unconditional in their love towards children.  

Hahahaha. 

That's the furthest thing from the truth. I laugh not out of disrespect but because the lesson is still fresh and tender. Fearing for your child and wanting them not to experience any suffering is highly conditional. 

11 minutes ago, zazen said:

 Love is fluid and can change, what starts as romantic love in relationships often becomes familial, and so the sex / attraction dries up as incest isn't natural. Keeping this romantic love alive takes effort, understanding and work on both parties. 

What's incestious is a relationship with one's own thoughts and beliefs. The feel familiar so you don't dare let go of them to venture out to meet new ones you could really create something with.          

Edited October 27, 2021 by mandyjw

[zazen]

13 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Hahahaha. 

That's the furthest thing from the truth. I laugh not out of disrespect but because the lesson is still fresh and tender. Fearing for your child and wanting them not to experience any suffering is highly conditional. 

What's incestious is a relationship with one's own thoughts and beliefs. The feel familiar so you don't dare let go of them to venture out to meet new ones you could really create something with.          

Not unconditional in the absolute sense, speaking generally to get a point across. This is semantics and definitions, maybe a better word isn't unconditional but less. The love towards and for your child has less conditions, but the environment  you'd wished they'd be safe in is highly conditional for that very reason. More conditions are directed at the environment being safe for them then, and less towards the child. The condition for the child is that they listen to your guidance and lessons in being safe, but far more conditions/variables are at play in the environment you have less control over.  What condition would reduce your love for your child, if their not behaving properly? Parents love their children even at their worst due to the maternal instinct which has less conditions on their love for child, than for their man. It doesn't mean their love for the child is unconditional, just less conditional. 

[Raze]

On 10/25/2021 at 3:08 PM, StarStruck said:

So I went on this date with this amazing Polish girl. A real blue haired brunette lolita. I approached this girl and it was a walk in the park to seduce her. Next day we went on a date.

Everything was fine. We eat some pizza and went for a walk (and smoked sisha later on) In the park we were looking at some cows and I delicately grapped her from the back and I asked if I could kiss her (the first mistake) I shouldn't have asked but should have used body language and my hands to direct the kiss but she decline because she doesn't do that on the first date.

Later on she said fuck boys would do that to her (kiss her and probably get more), but she didn't want to kiss me because I wasn't? That was my conclusion. But all in all I failed to establish the fuckboy frame and I was obviously disappointed. She held my hands and it felt good but I felt like a cuck. It took me two minutes or something to let it go and become not butt hurt about it.

I'm glad I tried it but I don't know. I'm already doing pickup for months right now and I still can't establish the fuckboy frame. It is basically that I'm feeling inferior to her? This video explains my point very well but how to materialize it and own it? I watched this video before the date and I clearly failed.

I'm very negative about my date today and I'm trying to see the glass half full. Last year I could only dream to go on a date with such a girl so I'm making progress but these kind of setbacks put me out of my equilibrium. I really  had to create this thread because I feel like a little puppy and I know it shouldn't have influenced me this much.

So what I'm really asking is how I can be myself without being so needy. There were some comments from her to me that really made me doubt myself. For example I told her I don't do cannabis because it makes me quite and she told me that I was already quite as I'm. That is true and that is why it hurt me. I know I should just own that quality but my inclination is just to modify myself to be like a fuckboy? I'm not happy about how girls treat me like dirt and award the fuckboys. This girl literally told me - indirectly - she does reward fuckboys and it just pains my heart that girls reward such guys and punish (nice) guys like me and I don't know how to deal with it!

To be honest I don't want to become a fuckboy. I just want to be myself, without being boring and too silent in her presence. I also made some stupid comments like telling her that nicotine is poison! We were smoking sisha and she just stopped smoking it and it kind of killed the mood. I really need to step out of this logical/intellectual mode and I can be that for some while but eventually I turn to my real self where I'm boring and very quite.

https://youtu.be/edWnOJENJeU?t=627

 

 

[SgtPepper]

I just personally think you are way too self-critical and as a result, you are not being natural or relaxed with these HUMAN beings. 

and you care way too much about how girls perceive you man. and that's why you cannot be yourself.

You sound a bit uptight with the nicotine comment, and while I agree with you that nicotine is poison, who cares unless you're trying to marry this girl. Alternatively, a fuckboy would happily say smoking cigarettes is dumb and not give a shit if the girl is hurt or not by the comment. They're not in the business of being nice or caring about trivial feelings, they are in the business of getting what they want. These fucks boys you are talking about, are pretty much just being themselves with edgy frame because girls like a guy who can take command of a situation. 

I'd probably approach that situation with not making any judgment about nicotine, but asking the person why they like to vape it, what flavors, how does it make them feel, and what is their preferred brand. It depends on their reaction with how far I'd go with the topic. But if you make judgments, it's very easy to close people off.

I still think its good to practice any social skill that you need help with. 

You got to learn to have fun and be curious about the people you meet, that will stop all quietness. 

 

Maybe try weight lifting and even building relationships with guys. You have to build confidence as a man. 

 

Edit:

I will try to become an egoistic in the sense that I won't care what other people think, feel or want. I will be just out to get mine. 

I don't have respect for girls anymore. 

To be honest, I think you're just losing respect for yourself here. and I can see why you may feel that way now, but don't let some girls behavior impact your relationship with yourself. I would recommend to still care what YOU think. Just saying, this could you swinging to the other end of the pendulum, when what you need is balance. Or else you're going to be walking around with a vengeance 

Edited October 27, 2021 by SgtPepper

[StarStruck]

21 hours ago, zazen said:

When interacting with women its best to be in the moment as its more a emotional / energetic affair and to not be trapped up in the head. Analyse after the interactions. As your logical you may want to understand human nature which will help dispel any grandiosity women may have and therefore help you to be more relaxed around them. Use your own proclivity of being logical, to study nature, accept it, and act accordingly to it. The following may help de-pedestalise women for you. Not to put down women, but just to see them for what they are, not below or above men. If you view them as above you, you won't attain them because they aren't attracted to weakness, but if you view them as below you, how can you healthily love that which you look down on or detest. 

 

''A subset of high value men who don’t commit beyond sex, have a very rosy-perception of women because they’ve got their game down enough not to face too much difficulty getting laid. These men enjoy the best of what women have to offer without being subject to any of the bullshit attached to it; this gives them a positively skewed bias.  Perhaps some men are bitter, but bitter rarely means wrong, if anything, bitterness is the unwelcome by-product of a hard learned lesson, it is neither unwarranted nor devoid of wisdom. This is not to encourage bitterness, but rather to give credit where credit is due.

Instinct obscures truth when it comes to the study of women, men are overridden by idealism, lust and paternalism and feel if they accept the darker nature of women then they have to hate women and won’t be able to enjoy them. Therefore a man is prone to retain the myth of the idealised women rather than accept nature, because he wrongly believes acceptance of nature is tantamount to an inability to enjoy women.

This is not true at all, sometimes one has to accept reality is not what they want it to be, that women are not angelic as so many men were wrongly taught, but that in fact women are flawed just as men. It’s about a recalibration of expectations to complement reality, rather than continuing to worship the unicorn myth that society has so deeply ingrained. In spite of this realisation, you have to make a commitment to your happiness and make the best out of the flawed nature of human kind. If you can’t or won’t do that, you’re going to go your own way and prove nature right: you need illusions to see women as worthwhile. 

The inability to grasp and accept nature, instead choosing to reject nature, indicates the person in question has to deceive themselves about the nature of women in order to be capable of enjoying them. Such a person is not at the stage where they can enjoy women, whilst accepting how flawed nature can be, or their idealism of it. Salvation lies in accepting and working in accordance with nature, rather than in denying it. 

 

Where woman idealism may stem from

Nature plays a cruel trick on the psychology of man. It gives him a very pure, high quality love in his childhood. It gives him a template for woman’s love that he comes to expect as standard of all women. He is taught by his mother’s love that unconditional loyalty, noble character, gentleness, sacrifice and trust are intrinsic of the feminine essence. And so as he grows from a boy into a man he comes to the rather logical conclusion that if he is “a good man,” he can expect to be loved by his lover in much the same way. His mother, well-meant but quite incorrectly likewise affirms this notion to him. This is a wicked lie, but a man whose heart is yet to be broken does not realise this. He thinks woman’s love is immutable. He knows not that her love for child is different from that of her love for him.

Women are incapable of reciprocating man’s love. They love differently. There is a hierarchy of love that trickles down. Man sacrifices for woman, and woman, for child. Rarely does the river flow upward. As such, if man is to believe that women can love to the same extent as he, then he is doomed to disappointment and misery when she invariably acts within accordance of her nature rather than his idealisation. Men who had mothers that never endowed them with the maternal bond find it easier to swallow the truth and understand female behaviour as adults. It is a recurring observation of mine that men deprived of maternal love are better adapted for dealing with women as mates in adulthood. The man who grew up as a neglected boy never foolishly believed that a girlfriend would love him as his mother would, he believed she would love him exactly as his mother did; with extreme conditionality.

 

Essentially man has to be stronger, for it is security she lacks being the more vulnerable sex, and seeks this in man. Children rely on women, women on man, man on himself and his strengths. If I could pin point / generalise the nature of women and men it would be this: women seek to secure strength, men seek to express strength. A lot of male/female behaviour can be explained with these two principles.

Love women for what they are, not what you idealise them to be. ''

Thank you so much for posting this! This is what I really needed to hear.

I'm a guy who didn't get the love and attention from my mother. The article says such guys are not naive enough to expect real love from a female. That is not correct. I do expect unconditional love from a girl on an emotional level. It is hard to stamp that need out because I desire something I didn't get from my mother.

I will talk about this topic with my therapist.

20 hours ago, mandyjw said:

 

Did you tell your gym mate you're distracted and going through something? 

I don't know him enough to tell him about this sensitive stuff.

16 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

I just personally think you are way too self-critical and as a result, you are not being natural or relaxed with these HUMAN beings. 

and you care way too much about how girls perceive you man. and that's why you cannot be yourself.

You sound a bit uptight with the nicotine comment, and while I agree with you that nicotine is poison, who cares unless you're trying to marry this girl. Alternatively, a fuckboy would happily say smoking cigarettes is dumb and not give a shit if the girl is hurt or not by the comment. They're not in the business of being nice or caring about trivial feelings, they are in the business of getting what they want. These fucks boys you are talking about, are pretty much just being themselves with edgy frame because girls like a guy who can take command of a situation. 

I'd probably approach that situation with not making any judgment about nicotine, but asking the person why they like to vape it, what flavors, how does it make them feel, and what is their preferred brand. It depends on their reaction with how far I'd go with the topic. But if you make judgments, it's very easy to close people off.

I still think its good to practice any social skill that you need help with. 

You got to learn to have fun and be curious about the people you meet, that will stop all quietness. 

 

Maybe try weight lifting and even building relationships with guys. You have to build confidence as a man. 

 

Edit:

To be honest, I think you're just losing respect for yourself here. and I can see why you may feel that way now, but don't let some girls behavior impact your relationship with yourself. I would recommend to still care what YOU think. Just saying, this could you swinging to the other end of the pendulum, when what you need is balance. Or else you're going to be walking around with a vengeance 

I'm just being done with being nice. And for a nice guy it is not possible to be 50% less nice. I noticed that I really have to swing to the opposite side of the pendulum.

Yesterday night I was out, and I came across a girl who I approached months ago. She gave me her number at the time but she didn't want to go out with me when I texted her.  I asked her why and she said "You don't look happy!". Well she was a little drunk and I think she is a little bit autistic but that really hit the nail.

Girls just care about themselves and what feelings they get from a man. That is the crux when it is boiled down to its essence.

Edited October 28, 2021 by StarStruck

[Raptorsin7]

21 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I'm doing Joe Dispenza's meditations: mainly doing release work from root chakra towards crown chakra, and a second meditation that focuses on the heart chakra

Keep doing practices like this.

Be careful with pickup. You have the emotional constitution and psychology of a sociopathic right now, you could really hurt someone until you get yourself together,

My advice, focus less on pickup and more on practices.