Can someone explain the fear - love ambivalence that woman feel towards men?

[Nahm]

7 minutes ago, SamC said:

@Nahm Oh - I don´t doubt that I am projecting. I am actually kind of banking on that. I am myself terrifed of the masculine but I still belive that there is some truth to the fact that woman experience a fear in regards to the masculine aswell ( atleast those who have made it to be dangerous in their mind,) I don´t why but this popped in my head now, woman are not afraid of masculinity, woman are afraid of toxic masculinity.

Do you also see the conflict there?  Which is it, your belief being projected, or, a fact? 

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The direct experience that I have is woman telling me that and intuitive insights if that makes sense, that informs me of aspects of reality.

How do you know that informs you of aspects of reality?  Isn’t it so, that only informs you about one females opinion, understanding, misunderstanding, experiences, etc?  Do you see how the stretch from one’s opinion, to fact or aspect of reality doesn’t add up? (Definitely no implication here that projection is bad or wrong or anything, just to be clear)

[SamC]

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Do you also see the conflict there?  Which is it, your belief being projected, or, a fact? 

I beelive that there some truth to it but some projections aswell. Though I am definitely biased, I think that I grasp some part of the truth. If I am wrong however, I would gladly drop that belief in a beat.... hmmm. Well if it's a belief maybe I should drop it all together, but then I don't know anything and that is kind of scary.

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

How do you know that informs you of aspects of reality?  Isn’t it so, that only informs you about one females opinion, understanding, misunderstanding, experiences, etc?  Do you see how the stretch from one’s opinion, to fact or aspect of reality doesn’t add up? (Definitely no implication here that projection is bad or wrong or anything, just to be clear)

It informs me of her reality. So you're saying that I should investigate the belief that an ambivalence exsist further? Got it. 

[Nahm]

7 minutes ago, SamC said:

Well if it's a belief maybe I should drop it all together, but then I don't know anything and that is kind of scary.

Dropping one belief = not knowing anything? If you really recognize that it is a belief, isn’t it already dropped? And isn’t saying that not knowing is scary, another projection of fear? How do you know, that not believing or knowing is scary? 
 

7 minutes ago, SamC said:

It informs me of her reality.

There’s two realities? Have you informed science of this revelation? 
Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that she shared with you her experience of reality?

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So you're saying that I should investigate the belief that an ambivalence exsist further? Got it. 

No. Basically if you continue in your orientation there will always be fear and you will never understand women. Yet if you consider a different orientation you will inevitably be without fear and understand women. And I do not mean my orientation, I mean literally any other orientation than projecting.

[mandyjw]

It's metaphorical for awakening. It's the reason why vampire stories are so popular with women. Fear/desire wrapped into one. Fear is illusory, and the pull of attraction is so strong that you see through it. You realize you're the Author of it. 

Still a better love story than Twilight. 

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, SamC said:

My hope with this post is to get to the truth no matter what it is.

You gotta be careful just throwin up the Bat signal like that, us moth’s show up ya know. 

[PepperBlossoms]

There are other combinations of views that women can have for men (and vice versa) that would involve:

Love for, hatred for, angry at, scared of, don't care about, jealous of, idolize, feel sorry for, feel better than, befriend, feel bored of, don't have time for, don't have any interest in, enjoy, feel disgusted by, feel desperate for, etc. 

So to say that ALL women feel both FEAR AND LOVE towards ALL MEN can be off and making an assumption that everyone thinks and feels the same and has the same experience.  It is seemingly creating a stereotype for half the population and not being nuanced enough to notice that there are so many different opinions, attitudes, views, factors, etc.

Edited October 26, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Dropping one belief = not knowing anything? If you really recognize that it is a belief, isn’t it already dropped? And isn’t saying that not knowing is scary, another projection of fear? How do you know, that not believing or knowing is scary? 

 

Becuase I tried to do it and then my ego reacted against it becuase it didn't wanna let go because then it don't know how to oriente itself.
 

There’s two realities? Have you informed science of this revelation? 
Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that she shared with you her experience of reality?

Yes, but what is the difference between her experience and actual reality? All live in reality, yet it's different for all of us yet the same reality? Do you mean absolute reality?

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No. Basically if you continue in your orientation there will always be fear and you will never understand women. Yet if you consider a different orientation you will inevitably be without fear and understand women. And I do not mean my orientation, I mean literally any other orientation than projecting.

Hmmm. * I am going to observe my ego reaction against this and see what comes up*

" But I am trying to, that's what I do - I feel so disconnected from woman and now I am trying to understand them, this makes me feel so missunderstood. This is the truth, woman are afraid of me"- ego. ( aha btw) woman are afraid of me! That's what I project.

Okey, there obviously is a lot of fear here still. My action in trying to understand woman are pushing them away, which makes me scared because I don't know how to do it know - I thought I got it but now it feels like I am further then ever away with connecting to woman and it makes me sad.

Thoughts on this?

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

You gotta be careful just throwin up the Bat signal like that, us moth’s show up ya know. 

My ego hates you right now but I love you <<3 thanks 

@Nahm

Edited October 26, 2021 by SamC

[SamC]

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

There are other combinations of views that women can have for men (and vice versa) that would involve:

Love for, hatred for, angry at, scared of, don't care about, jealous of, idolize, feel sorry for, feel better than, befriend, feel bored of, don't have time for, don't have any interest in, enjoy, feel disgusted by, feel desperate for, etc. 

So to say that ALL women feel both FEAR AND LOVE towards ALL MEN can be off and making an assumption that everyone thinks and feels the same and has the same experience.  It is seemingly creating a stereotype for half the population and not being nuanced enough to notice that there are so many different opinions, attitudes, views, factors, etc.

Ahhhh I wanna fight back so badly XDXD. I feel like woman can't understand me and that what you wrote contradicts it. Ahhhh 

Edited October 26, 2021 by SamC

[Nahm]

30 minutes ago, SamC said:

Becuase I tried to do it and then my ego reacted against it becuase it didn't wanna let go because then it don't know how to oriente itself.

I can’t even. No comment.

30 minutes ago, SamC said:

Hmmm. * I am going to observe my ego reaction against this and see what comes up*

" But I am trying to, that's what I do - I feel so disconnected from woman and now I am trying to understand them, this makes me feel so missunderstood. This is the truth, woman are afraid of me"- ego. ( aha btw) woman are afraid of me! That's what I project.

?

Seriously though I hear ya, there’s no rush at all, it’s a process, takes time. 99% of the ‘work’ in this regard truly is already done by that recognition of belief. It’ll sink in / clear up of it’s own accord, in perfect time.  

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Okey, there obviously is a lot of fear here still. 

There’s only one ‘place’ which fear never is, and that is here. Fear is in & of itself, projection. It’s not like you ‘have it’ and project it. Btw, are you getting the ramifications of this in regard to your experience with the ladies yet? They be-leavin too ya know. Had liberated (both parties) romance, intimacy & sex yet?  (Just gonna put that there for you to ponder). 

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My action in trying to understand woman are pushing them away, which makes me scared because I don't know how to do it know - I thought I got it but now it feels like I am further then ever away with connecting to woman and it makes me sad.

Thoughts on this?

Learn. And. Use. The. Emotional. Scale. A chair in this regard could at least be said to be ‘here’, but not emotion. ‘ I am further then ever away with connecting to woman’ and sad are not emotions. 

30 minutes ago, SamC said:

My ego hates you right now but I love you <<3 thanks 

Wife said that too. 

? ♥️

[zazen]

Generalisations are more useful than nuance in grasping reality, reality is nuanced but if you try to take in all of the nuance you get noise, unless your looking into a specific individual. We have to find ways to generalise all of the information we receive to be able to understand to an extent and then act, otherwise there will be paralysis by analysis. Every man and woman has a hardware (their biology) which is the same for all men and woman, then there is the software (their psychology, individual experiences etc) which is on top and interplays with it and makes everyone unique, but not so unique some fundamentals don't change. Everyone is the same, and yet everyone is the different. 

 

Woman's baseline experience of life is from fear, even man is fearful. But woman more so for the other half of the population want to in seminate her, are stronger than her, and this handicaps her for months for child rearing only instilling further fear for she can't fend for herself even more. Woman had to depend on man and tribe more than men, this is why their more sociable than men. Heres a video of teal swan going into this experience of life as a woman also:

 

 

[PepperBlossoms]

15 hours ago, SamC said:

Ahhhh I wanna fight back so badly XDXD. I feel like woman can't understand me and that what you wrote contradicts it. Ahhhh 

I hope I wasn't took harsh with my last post.  Look at the assumptions: "Women can't understand me" and "women fear and love men".

Question these.

What part of my post was contradictory so I can better understand you if I am misinterpreting you?

On the "women fear and love men" concept, question why you want an answer to that as well as question if the statement is even valid.  It may very well be.  But yet I am pondering whether there are going to be some women that have a different opinion and won't fit that category.

Do you wish for women to fear and love men?  Otherwise, why is it hard to consider that women may not all feel that way and some for instance may want nothing to do with men?  Some women are lesbians and love women more so than men.

Edited October 27, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[SamC]

17 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

I hope I wasn't took harsh with my last post.  Look at the assumptions: "Women can't understand me" and "women fear and love men".

@PepperBlossoms Lol no you where not. You're fine. I am not here to get sugarcoated, I want to grow.

17 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Question these.

What part of my post was contradictory so I can better understand you if I am misinterpreting you?

It feels like woman can't understand men ( me)  and that they are afraid of men because they are afraid of me but maybe that is just becuase I signal something out. What I mean with that they are afraid of me is that they are running alway from me.

It's not that what you're saying is wrong because I agree with it, it's that I talked about something else which is related to something besides context, but maybe there is no other thing, yet there Is but that thing is context sensitive. Maybe it's both the " truth" at the same time. The reason why I felt missunderstood was because I interpeted it as you ( the feminie) pushing away my efforts in trying to understand the feminine ( you) which makes my ego sad because it is what I am trying to avoid in the first place.

Maybe woman are afraid of  men" all the time"  in certain contexts and that is the case becuase of biological wiring, which kind of is the love-fear paradox.

17 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

On the "women fear and love men" concept, question why you want an answer to that as well as question if the statement is even valid.  It may very well be.  But yet I am pondering whether there are going to be some women that have a different opinion and won't fit that category.

I think toxic masculinity ( which includes repression of the feminie) scares every woman and that all woman atleast screen for and are cautious of men becuase they might be dangerous because XYZ. There are subtleties there though, that amounts to the fact that woman in fact are not afraid of men all the time if the masculinity is not dangerous to the feminine...yet if this is the case- I am not sure if attraction can be created because the femine desire strength and if it doesn't scare her on one level, it doesn't have the capacity to protect her so if it's a healthy masculinity, and she is attracted to her, she might be afraid of him ( on some subconscious) level but that doesn't mean that she is always afraid of men. Maybe? Idk. Or maybe not.

17 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Do you wish for women to fear and love men?  Otherwise, why is it hard to consider that women may not all feel that way and some for instance may want nothing to do with men?  Some women are lesbians and love women more so than men.

Yes I do, because I feel like I am disconnected from woman, which is why I am trying to bridge the gap to feel connected to the feminity. Me being wrong informs me that I am still disconnected from the feminine, and that mainly becuase fear arises which is what I am trying to run away from.

 

[SamC]

15 hours ago, Nahm said:

I can’t even. No comment.

?

Seriously though I hear ya, there’s no rush at all, it’s a process, takes time. 99% of the ‘work’ in this regard truly is already done by that recognition of belief. It’ll sink in / clear up of it’s own accord, in perfect time.  

@Nahm Thanks man!

15 hours ago, Nahm said:

There’s only one ‘place’ which fear never is, and that is here. Fear is in & of itself, projection. It’s not like you ‘have it’ and project it. Btw, are you getting the ramifications of this in regard to your experience with the ladies yet? They be-leavin too ya know. Had liberated (both parties) romance, intimacy & sex yet?  (Just gonna put that there for you to ponder). 

No, I have not - or atleast not to the degree I want. I still experince the feminine running away from me, though I honestly am starting to consider if that is just a projection of fear aswell that creates a self fulfilling prophecy.

I do feel like I am experiencing deeper and deeper intimacy and understanding with females in general though. It's not a full release, there are a lot of projections and fear still there, but it's a lot better than before.

15 hours ago, Nahm said:

Learn. And. Use. The. Emotional. Scale. A chair in this regard could at least be said to be ‘here’, but not emotion. ‘ I am further then ever away with connecting to woman’ and sad are not emotions. 

Wife said that too. 

? ♥️

Okey I will.  What so you mean bu that sad and I am not connecting to woman is not an emotion. I get that the not connecting to woman is a projection but isn't sadness my real feeling or is that also a projection?

Also thanks for your inputs, they have helped me realize a lot today.?

[Nahm]

26 minutes ago, SamC said:

but isn't sadness my real feeling

No. Hell no. 

? 

[PepperBlossoms]

I realized I should probably provide the following as maybe that is more of what you were looking for and I was looking at it differently initially:

When you say women are afraid of you (men), if that is what you are sensing, there could be many reasons such as:  they are not interested in dating you, you are verbally or physically aggressive, you are maybe very attractive and intimidating to talk to, they may feel like they are not good enough (not in your league) to talk to you, you do or say dumb stuff, you have a reputation for going from girl to girl and they don't want to be another girl on your list that gets short term attention but not long term attention, they think you will rape/kidnap/steal from them, you are not being comforting/silly enough, they do not understand you and you need to be more descriptive and elaborative and work with them until they do, they have other things they would rather focus on/do, they feel bored around you, they don't feel attracted to you, you meet a stereotype that they are not used to or are uncomfortable around, you emit red flags based on whatever they have been conditioned or assumed to think is a red flag regardless of whether it actually is something to be concerned about, they see how you act/what you are wearing/your friends and feel cautious, etc. 

When you say women love you (men), there could be many reasons such as: they find you attractive, they want to be your partner, they think you can provide them with stability, love, economic and emotional support, they want to spend time with you, they think you are funny, they admire xyz about you, they think you could be a good father, etc.

41 minutes ago, SamC said:

It feels like woman can't understand men ( me)  and that they are afraid of men because they are afraid of me but maybe that is just becuase I signal something out. What I mean with that they are afraid of me is that they are running alway from me.

When you say that you signal something, do you have any guesses as to what that could be?

Edited October 27, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[SamC]

11 minutes ago, Nahm said:

No. Hell no. 

? 

What is it then??

[soos_mite_ah]

On 10/25/2021 at 0:38 PM, SamC said:

1:  What exactly does a man provide for you? Why are men so " Awesome"?   ( for women)

Providing companionship, most of us are attracted to men, what we like about men can differ depending on the personality of a man and our relationship to them.

2: What does make a man a creep/ scary? ( what invokes fear in woman)

The power men have over us in society and how that can inform the toxic ways men treat other people. 

3:  What is the most important thing a man can do to not make women feel afraid but safe? ( if you have to go down to one word, to the essence). 

Empathize, be self aware, take responsibility, don't be aggressive etc. 

Any other thoughts, explanations, or comments about this paradox are not only welcome - but highly appreciated

On 10/25/2021 at 2:00 PM, SamC said:

It seems that womans fear are more wired into her biology regardless of what happens.

22 hours ago, SamC said:

I  also believe that the feminine always will view the masculine problems with fear and therefore not see it as it is

We aren't inherently afraid of men. We are afraid of men because of the systemic issues that are present and how those issues personally affect us. Saying that women are afraid because of their femininity or because of fear being wired into our biology is the same as assuming that the reason why black people are afraid of white cops is because of some pseudo race science. 

It literally doesn't have to be this way but to assume that women are inherently afraid of men and attributing it to biology is to assume often leads to thinking that because women are just like this, that there is nothing we can do to change it. I'm saying that women aren't inherently afraid therefore there are many social changes that we could enact to where the dynamics aren't like this. 

I'd recommend to stop seeing this as a masculine/feminine issue and as a people issue with how different groups relate to power dynamics. Because even if a woman leans masculine, chances are the fear is still there due to socialization whereas a man who leans feminine won't have the same experience. 

EDIT: I also feel that especially on this forum, that boxing men and women to masculine and feminine is often done so in a way to reinforce traditional gender roles. It puts people in a category, strips the people and the situation of nuance, and takes this "men are from mars, women are from venus" approach. It treats men and women as if we are from a different planet instead of seeing them as another person to relate to. And that doesn't help with communicating or empathizing all that much. 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[SamC]

8 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

I realized I should probably provide the following as maybe that is more of what you were looking for and I was looking at it differently initially:

When you say women are afraid of you (men), if that is what you are sensing, there could be many reasons such as:  they are not interested in dating you, you are verbally or physically aggressive, you are maybe very attractive and intimidating to talk to, they may feel like they are not good enough (not in your league) to talk to you, you do or say dumb stuff, you have a reputation for going from girl to girl and they don't want to be another girl on your list that gets short term attention but not long term attention, they think you will rape/kidnap/steal from them, you are not being comforting/silly enough, they do not understand you and you need to be more descriptive and elaborative and work with them until they do, they have other things they would rather focus on/do, they feel bored around you, they don't feel attracted to you, you meet a stereotype that they are not used to or are uncomfortable around, you emit red flags based on whatever they have been conditioned or assumed to think is a red flag regardless of whether it actually is something to be concerned about, they see how you act/what you are wearing/your friends and feel cautious, etc. 

When you say women love you (men), there could be many reasons such as: they find you attractive, they want to be your partner, they think you can provide them with stability, love, economic and emotional support, they want to spend time with you, they think you are funny, they admire xyz about you, they think you could be a good father, etc.

Yeah for sure

8 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

When you say that you signal something, do you have any guesses as to what that could be?

Yes I do, I signal shadow feminity which implies toxic masculinity and feminine repression.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, SamC said:

What is it then??

Experientially, it’s communion, guidance. It’s how what you’re thinkin, feels, to You.  

[Random witch]

1:  What exactly does a man provide for you? Why are men so " Awesome"?   ( for women)

They are object of desire, inspiration, object of investigation, intellectual interest, entertainment, feel sexy and desired, feel protected and loved, feel valuable, beautiful and admired.

2: What does make a man a creep/ scary? ( what invokes fear in woman)

Being too conformist (I'm terribly afraid of men who are too conformist because they tend to be judgmental toward me), attempts to control, manipulate, gaslighting, attempts to suppress me, ignore my needs, being arrogate, being aggressive and possessive toward me, not being clear enough, envy me, being needy, act like pervert, being sneaky, hypocrite, to gossip a lot, being extremely judgmental, of course misogyny/sexism, too many insecurities, being passive aggressive. too close.

3:  What is the most important thing a man can do to not make women feel afraid but safe? ( if you have to go down to one word, to the essence). 

Love women from the heart, trying to think about what you can provide her rather than be too focused on what you want to receive from her, being less rigid and judgmental about her physical appearance, fight for women rights when you have the opportunity, accept women as an individuals, as equal human beings to you, realize that you also could be born as a woman (And also, you were a women for short period of time), Realize that a certain woman in your life held you for 9 month in her womb (paused her whole life and put her life at risk for you) be aware to women's issues in history and society.