Can someone explain the fear - love ambivalence that woman feel towards men?

[SamC]

Women are afraid of men... yet at the same time LOVE men.  This is something I am still trying to wrap my head around, and while I do understand it - I want to understand it deeper. Preferably from the female perspective, but also very much from all the other perspectives as well.

 Here are some specific questions that highlight the essence of what I don´t yet understand. Thank you for your help!

Note that these questions are only there to help assist a deep metaphysical inquiry about the meta dynamics of the female mind.

1:  What exactly does a man provide for you? Why are men so " Awesome"?   ( for women)

2: What does make a man a creep/ scary? ( what invokes fear in woman)

3:  What is the most important thing a man can do to not make women feel afraid but safe? ( if you have to go down to one word, to the essence). 

Any other thoughts, explanations, or comments about this paradox are not only welcome - but highly appreciated.

@Leo Gura Thoughts?

 

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by SamC

[PepperBlossoms]

25 minutes ago, SamC said:

1:  What exactly does a man provide for you? Why are men so " Awesome"?   ( for women)

1. Knowledge, compassion, friendliness, sex, partner, love, joy, curiosity, adventure, beauty, reliability

25 minutes ago, SamC said:

2: What does make a man a creep/ scary? ( what invokes fear in woman)

2. Aggressive, loud, domineering speaking/tone; too much drinking; not seeing the beauty in life; being overly flirty and overly confident; talking to too many females; having had a history of going from girl to girl to girl to girl pretty quickly; being too egotistical; lack of compassion/joy/love

25 minutes ago, SamC said:

3:  What is the most important thing a man can do to not make women feel afraid but safe? ( if you have to go down to one word, to the essence). 

3. Innovation/compassion/silly/playful/strength

Edited October 25, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[SamC]

5 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

1. Knowledge, compassion, friendliness, sex, partner, love, joy, curiosity, adventure, beauty

2. Aggressive, loud, domineering speaking/tone

3. Innovation/compassion/silly/playful/strength

Hmmm. Thank you! Why do you think this ambivalence exsist? @PepperBlossoms

[PepperBlossoms]

Stuff is a mixed bag. There are the good and the bad, pros and cons.  (Also I added a few more to my list just now).

You are welcome.

Everyone has different things that they want in a partner and different things they are okay with and not okay with.

I'll ask the same for you:

1:  What exactly does a woman provide for you? Why are women so " Awesome"?   ( for men)

2: What does make a woman a creep/ scary? ( what invokes fear in men)

3:  What is the most important thing a woman can do to not make men feel afraid but safe? ( if you have to go down to one word, to the essence). 

[PepperBlossoms]

You can still love and cherish your partner even if there are things that you do not like about them and they do not like about you - you will cherish them anyway. 

You pick someone and make it work for the both of you.  The stuff that you don't like about each other will be stuff that you can both use to grow and work on and it keeps it interesting.

I think what we want in a partner is also kinda how we want ourselves to be.

[SamC]

53 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Stuff is a mixed bag. There are the good and the bad, pros and cons.  (Also I added a few more to my list just now).

You are welcome.

Everyone has different things that they want in a partner and different things they are okay with and not okay with.

@PepperBlossoms Intresting perspective and thank you for this. It wasn't exactly what I wondered though. Of course I get woman have different preferences. What I don't get is how woman can both " hate" ( be terrified of) and " love" men simulationsly.

Quote

I'll ask the same for you:

1:  What exactly does a woman provide for you? Why are women so " Awesome"?   ( for men)

Sex, intimacy, feminity... everything that is the feminine. 

A more metaphysical answer is that woman provide men with the feminity which makes men feel whole and one with the universe and with itself.

I belive that's one function woman play for men  - to help the masculine find itself in itself and return back to union.

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2: What does make a woman a creep/ scary? ( what invokes fear in men)

Honestly nothing. We don't care that much and that's why I have trouble with seeing the ambivalence woman face in their relationship with men. Woman love men but they are also terrified of them at the same time. That's what is hard for me to wrap around ( why that dynamic exsist) because men just love woman.. ( if they are attractive enough) Then of course there is a fear there but that's more related to rejection and fear of being inadequate but thats more related to how we view ourselves.

It seems that womans fear are more wired into her biology regardless of what happens.

 

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3:  What is the most important thing a woman can do to not make men feel afraid but safe? ( if you have to go down to one word, to the essence). 

Again..  nothing. It would be nice if she'd be receptive and wanting to understand the male perspective but thats not her job. That's my own job - to understand and love both myself and the feminine... and if she doesn't it doesn't make me feel unsafe, just disconnected, but that's because I disconnected myself from the feminine first. Woman are like a mirror for a man - both in regards to his masculinity, but most importantly femininity. 

48 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

You can still love and cherish your partner even if there are things that you do not like about them and they do not like about you - you will cherish them anyway. 

You pick someone and make it work for the both of you.  The stuff that you don't like about each other will be stuff that you can both use to grow and work on and it keeps it interesting.

Agreed. Do you think you can cherish and love the men who are creeps and make you feel afraid? Why? Why not?

** this is in eccense what I am trying to learn more about why or why not that is

Quote

I think what we want in a partner is also kinda how we want ourselves to be.

Also this was gold.

[Lyubov]

You love/like and can spend time with some/most men, yet there are some men you fear such as a terrorist or robbers. The window is just much bigger for women because they are physically more at risk especially in more casual and less dramatic situations like on a date or walking down a street. Don't overthink this. To make women feel safer, well the fact you recognize this is a very important step. Cultivating your intuition helps a lot. The Man's Guide to Women by John Gottman has a whole chapter on this topic which you will find quite helpful. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Lyubov

[Leo Gura]

Humorous, positive, deatched from outcome, confident in himself, assertive but very socially calibrated, non-controlling, self-amusing, not explicitly sexual in a vulgar way.

Creepy/scary guys fail on all those points.

Humor and playfulness makes her feel at easy. Creepy/scary guys are serious and lack humor.

Just being friendly and socially calibrated is huge. Creepy guys lack that calibration. They act like social retards.

[PepperBlossoms]

4 hours ago, SamC said:

@PepperBlossoms Intresting perspective and thank you for this. It wasn't exactly what I wondered though. Of course I get woman have different preferences. What I don't get is how woman can both " hate" ( be terrified of) and " love" men simulationsly.

@SamC If you think about it, men are stronger.  A man could more easily crush and kill a woman by over-powering her than the woman could do to the man - so it takes some level of - "hey please don't kill me".  She could be terrified of him if he gets angry.  She could love him when he is otherwise compatible and things are going well or well enough.

4 hours ago, SamC said:

Sex, intimacy, feminity... everything that is the feminine. 

Women could provide a whole lot more than just that.  Women can be nurturing, smart, gentle, funny, creative, courageous, intelligent, athletic, etc.  

When you say feminine, what do you mean?

4 hours ago, SamC said:

Honestly nothing. We don't care that much and that's why I have trouble with seeing the ambivalence woman face in their relationship with men. Woman love men but they are also terrified of them at the same time. That's what is hard for me to wrap around ( why that dynamic exsist) because men just love woman.. ( if they are attractive enough) Then of course there is a fear there but that's more related to rejection and fear of being inadequate but thats more related to how we view ourselves.

Some guys do have higher standards for their women and do care a whole lot about how their partner acts/is - they may tell them what upsets them and want the woman to stop doing xyz because the man doesn't let that slide or like that.  Men can have an ambivalence for women too.  If you had a partner, there may/will possibly be things that you do and do not like about him/her as with everything.  It is not all about looks either.  I think regarding inadequate, we kinda tend to go towards a partner that is of the same adequacy as us so that there is no inadequacy feelings (or being out of one's league) or not so much of that otherwise it probably won't work.

Question the idea that only women have ambivalence for men and not vice versa.  Have a girlfriend for even a week and you will see things that you do and do not like.

4 hours ago, SamC said:

Again..  nothing. It would be nice if she'd be receptive and wanting to understand the male perspective but thats not her job. That's my own job - to understand and love both myself and the feminine... and if she doesn't it doesn't make me feel unsafe, just disconnected, but that's because I disconnected myself from the feminine first. Woman are like a mirror for a man - both in regards to his masculinity, but most importantly femininity. 

Interesting.  Tell me more about this male perspective...  Yeah understanding each other can be helpful..

4 hours ago, SamC said:

Agreed. Do you think you can cherish and love the men who are creeps and make you feel afraid? Why? Why not?

Um.. not when I am scared - - when I am scared I want to get the heck out and go far away.

4 hours ago, SamC said:

** this is in eccense what I am trying to learn more about why or why not that is

Regarding essence - I feel like I can't just use one word as there are so many different things I want haha.  A jolly essence. But yet that has to be in combination with many other things.  It is like how when one has a color, when you put that color next to other colors, it changes how the color is.  So if I say jolly, I don't mean in combination with obnoxious/dumb/superficial.  Jolly and curious. 

4 hours ago, SamC said:

Also this was gold.

Thanks.

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just being friendly and socially calibrated is huge. Creepy guys lack that calibration. They act like social retards.

@Leo Gura I think the social calibration preference will also depend on the person.  Some girls may lack that as well and be more okay with having a disfunctionally socially calibrated partner.  The more socially calibrated someone is, the more they may want their partner to be like that too - based on whatever notion they have of what social calibration is "supposed" to look like.  But yeah there may need to be some sort of social calibration to make some sort of connection and have enough communication to understand each other and keep on seeing each other.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Some girls may lack that as well and be more okay with having a disfunctionally socially calibrated partner.

No girl wants a socially uncalibrated guy.

Don't mistake social calibration with being a conformist sheep. You can be edgy and iconoclastic but still socially calibrated.

Most girls are extremely socially calibrated because they are so social by default and it's imperative to their survival.

[SamC]

7 hours ago, PepperBlossoms said:

@SamC If you think about it, men are stronger.  A man could more easily crush and kill a woman by over-powering her than the woman could do to the man - so it takes some level of - "hey please don't kill me".  She could be terrified of him if he gets angry.  She could love him when he is otherwise compatible and things are going well or well enough.

Women could provide a whole lot more than just that.  Women can be nurturing, smart, gentle, funny, creative, courageous, intelligent, athletic, etc.  

When you say feminine, what do you mean?

@PepperBlossoms Yeah I know but if you go to the core, I think that's what woman provide men. Men can as you said provide basically everything and anything, but I think that it's something meta that the feminine search for in the masculine and the masculine search for in the femine and it's it opposite. What that is practically is what's interesting however.

It's the yin yang I am trying to understand.

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Some guys do have higher standards for their women and do care a whole lot about how their partner acts/is - they may tell them what upsets them and want the woman to stop doing xyz because the man doesn't let that slide or like that.  Men can have an ambivalence for women too.  If you had a partner, there may/will possibly be things that you do and do not like about him/her as with everything.  It is not all about looks either.  I think regarding inadequate, we kinda tend to go towards a partner that is of the same adequacy as us so that there is no inadequacy feelings (or being out of one's league) or not so much of that otherwise it probably won't work.

Yeah  but we are never afraid of them. Of course there can be mix feelings but

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Question the idea that only women have ambivalence for men and not vice versa.  Have a girlfriend for even a week and you will see things that you do and do not like.

I am talking about the fear - love ambivalence that I noticed exists in a lot of woman, not mix feelings and that there are pros and cons to your partner. 

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Interesting.  Tell me more about this male perspective...  Yeah understanding each other can be helpful...

Sometimes it can be really though to be rejected and pushed away by woman becuase you feel even more dissconnected from them. Many men who woman deem as unattractive ( like the nice pushover guys) are actually not real " creeps"  or bad people. They just exhibit shadow feminine qualities which signal that they can't provide containment for their own feminity.

Of course those men aren't necessarily " real nice guys" but they are not bad people either and I have a lot of empathy towards them because I used to be guy.

Again, I don't think woman should try to " connect with them" and honestly, I think woman are unable to because then the whole point of moving towards union wouldn't make sense.

The masculine needs to learn how to hold space, understand and protect the feminine - not the other way around. That said - if you really wanna know... it's very difficult as a man to be pushed away by the feminine, because you feel very missunderstood - just like a lot of woman feel in regards to men.

.

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Um.. not when I am scared - - when I am scared I want to get the heck out and go far away.

Yeah - and that's the catch 22. those types of men are the biggest challenge for females to integrate and understand because it goes against your safety and survival.

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Regarding essence - I feel like I can't just use one word as there are so many different things I want haha.  A jolly essence. But yet that has to be in combination with many other things.  It is like how when one has a color, when you put that color next to other colors, it changes how the color is.  So if I say jolly, I don't mean in combination with obnoxious/dumb/superficial.  Jolly and curious. 

Thanks! Yeah this makes a  lot of sense. You want different colors in differnt  contexts.@Leo Gura

( which is = to social calibration... what does the woman need me to be in order for her to feel safe and sound)

Edited October 26, 2021 by SamC

[SamC]

9 hours ago, Lyubov said:

You love/like and can spend time with some/most men, yet there are some men you fear such as a terrorist or robbers. The window is just much bigger for women because they are physically more at risk especially in more casual and less dramatic situations like on a date or walking down a street. Don't overthink this. To make women feel safer, well the fact you recognize this is a very important step. Cultivating your intuition helps a lot. The Man's Guide to Women by John Gottman has a whole chapter on this topic which you will find quite helpful. 

Thanks man! That makes a loooot of sense actually. I will definitely check it out! ?

[gettoefl]

the feminine fears the masculine reveres the former relies on emotion the latter on thoughts the one needs the other else no becoming god

[zazen]

Women seek to secure strength. This is the same strength that can be used against them and be a danger, so using their femininity they wish to wield that strength towards their own security and that of their children. This is the underlying theme/attraction towards vampires, beauty and the beast etc. The taming of the dangerous masculine for their own protection and provisioning. This is the continuous conflict and tension in women. The man their with is strong, yet is that strength available to them for their security and will it be there tomorrow. They wish their man to become better in health and wealth for it means security in the wild world they are vulnerable to, and yet at the same time they fear the mans higher status and attractiveness will have other women (more younger/beautiful/charming) compete for him or steal him away threatening their very security. This is why marriage/commitment means so much to women. 

 

The man they married in courtship, can end up becoming a shell of himself in the relationship and what is promised in courtship isn't always delivered in relationship. For the man love induced and getting his manhood validated can relax into a weaker version of himself. Biology has done its job of pro-creating and so the sexual instinct is no longer there to drive him to be stronger, he must find a higher instinct, the spiritual instinct to keep on going on in his betterment. Subconsciously, the woman can also herself weaken the man to ensure less competition from other women taking him and so giving her further re-assurance and security. On one level this gives the woman security other women won't compete for him but at the same time she loses the strength of her man which gave her a sense of security in the first place. She knows the one thing that wielded the man to her needs (her beauty) is declining and so wishes to secure the men as it fades. This is why women are extending their youthfulness now days ever more through botox etc as people aren't marrying/committing as young as they used, thus giving women the security the desire. Love and relationship is a constant flux. 

 

You can see this ambivalence more clearly in women with daddy issues. The don't trust what they need most, which is the masculine in their life. They need it most as they lacked it, and because they don't trust it to be there due to fear abandonment this makes them very possessive, controlling, jealous which ends up sabotaging their relationships. This dynamic is in women, just not as intense as in a woman who experienced an absent father.  

Edited October 26, 2021 by zazen

[SamC]

45 minutes ago, zazen said:

Women seek to secure strength. This is the same strength that can be used against them and be a danger, so using their femininity they wish to wield that strength towards their own security and that of their children. This is the underlying theme/attraction towards vampires, beauty and the beast etc. The taming of the dangerous masculine for their own protection and provisioning. This is the continuous conflict and tension in women. The man their with is strong, yet is that strength available to them for their security and will it be there tomorrow. They wish their man to become better in health and wealth for it means security in the wild world they are vulnerable to, and yet at the same time they fear the mans higher status and attractiveness will have other women (more younger/beautiful/charming) compete for him or steal him away threatening their very security. This is why marriage/commitment means so much to women. 

 

The man they married in courtship, can end up becoming a shell of himself in the relationship and what is promised in courtship isn't always delivered in relationship. For the man love induced and getting his manhood validated can relax into a weaker version of himself. Biology has done its job of pro-creating and so the sexual instinct is no longer there to drive him to be stronger, he must find a higher instinct, the spiritual instinct to keep on going on in his betterment. Subconsciously, the woman can also herself weaken the man to ensure less competition from other women taking him and so giving her further re-assurance and security. On one level this gives the woman security other women won't compete for him but at the same time she loses the strength of her man which gave her a sense of security in the first place. She knows the one thing that wielded the man to her needs (her beauty) is declining and so wishes to secure the men as it fades. This is why women are extending their youthfulness now days ever more through botox etc as people aren't marrying/committing as young as they used, thus giving women the security the desire. Love and relationship is a constant flux. 

 

You can see this ambivalence more clearly in women with daddy issues. The don't trust what they need most, which is the masculine in their life. They need it most as they lacked it, and because they don't trust it to be there due to fear abandonment this makes them very possessive, controlling, jealous which ends up sabotaging their relationships. This dynamic is in women, just not as intense as in a woman who experienced an absent father.  

Brilliant response - thank you!@zazen

I have another specific question for you. Do you think its possible for the feminine to underdstand the masculine perspective and the challenges that goes with it? Isn't understanding the masculine in contradiction to the feminine survival because she has to push " dangerous" masculinity away from her?

[zazen]

1 hour ago, SamC said:

Brilliant response - thank you!@zazen

I have another specific question for you. Do you think its possible for the feminine to underdstand the masculine perspective and the challenges that goes with it? Isn't understanding the masculine in contradiction to the feminine survival because she has to push " dangerous" masculinity away from her?

I may not be fully correct but will give it a shot at my current level of understanding.

 

Its not impossible, but more improbable. Due to evolution men have a greater ability to abstract/understand/use logic, its not that it doesn't exist in women, just less so. Women are more emotion centric than men, generally in conversation you hear women say I feel rather than men who say I think. Women survival was based on securing the strength of men, mens survival was based on securing the hostile environment. For men to control the environment they had to be more rational/logical and understand the environment, this evolved logic in men over Millenia. For women to control/secure men for survival they require emotionality, social bonding, sexual prowess, their survival relied heavily on their ability to socially bond to the tribe and man. Women are more likely to intuit something, whereas men are more likely to reason something.  Women's love is focused more towards themselves and their children, this was a necessary result of a feminine survival instinct that’s helped preserve women and their offspring in a violent, chaotic and uncertain evolution. Mans love for conquering the environment was his survival instinct, he had no one else to rely on except his own strength and that of other men. 

 

 In general, love flows downwards from men to women, women to children. That is why mans love is more sacrificial/idealistic and the male (even in the animal world) sacrifices for the female. (ie certain male species die after breeding or men go to war to protect women and children). Woman must be protected because they are the life givers and the only way to fulfil the biological instinct to propagate the species.  Woman's love is more opportunistic/conditional as it had to be in order to survive, although her love for her children is idealistic/unconditional. This is why the hero's journey or the hero who dies for his family resonates so much. We can see mans sacrificial/unconditional love in animal species, to man going to war, to the conception of a child (sperm dying to reach the egg), to the heroic stories/narrative in culture / hollywood, to him giving up his instinct to sleep with multiple women for the sake and security of one woman and his family, and now to the court system where it is sided to the woman who has more to gain than lose in a divorce. 

 

This idealistic/unconditional love men envision and live through comes from their first experience of woman being their mother, men project that this is the love he will receive from all women or his wife only to realise the true nature / hierarchy of love, and that unconditional love flows down not up. This is of course a more biological love than a spiritual love which is unconditional. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by zazen

[PepperBlossoms]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can be edgy and iconoclastic but still socially calibrated.

Good point.

7 hours ago, SamC said:

It's the yin yang I am trying to understand.

Everyone's yin yang combination can be different.  Person A and B will be different together than Person A and C or B and C.  The relationship will have a different taste with every person and it depends on what you are going for.  We bring out different things in each other.  I may be funny around person A and quiet around person B.  A girl may show her flirty sexy side or may show her kind, soft side, or whatever side - - but we also could have many sides and moods.  

7 hours ago, SamC said:

Yeah  but we are never afraid of them. 

Some guys can be quite afraid to talk to girls or feel intimidated by them.  Not all guys though.  I think it will depend on many factors like personality, looks, past experience, social norms, etc.  But past the stage of seeking a partner, it may be that guys do not feel fear other than a potential fear of losing one's partner or their partner doing things that they do not approve of.  There could be a fear that the partner is going to do xyz wrong and have abc impact.

7 hours ago, SamC said:

I am talking about the fear - love ambivalence that I noticed exists in a lot of woman, not mix feelings and that there are pros and cons to your partner. 

People have bulldogs and have fear that the dog could bite them when the dog is angry but yet love the dog otherwise.  People may fear the police for the sake of what the police could do to them but yet also love that the police provide more safety.  I may fear the rain as it could drown me but also love to look at it and what it provides for the trees.  I may fear rollercoasters of the idea that I could fall off or get hurt but yet love the thrill.

7 hours ago, SamC said:

Sometimes it can be really though to be rejected and pushed away by woman becuase you feel even more dissconnected from them. Many men who woman deem as unattractive ( like the nice pushover guys) are actually not real " creeps"  or bad people. They just exhibit shadow feminine qualities which signal that they can't provide containment for their own feminity.

It can be tough for women when they get rejected by men as well - and they can also sense the disconnection in contrast to obtaining the connection that they wanted and feel sad about that.  Some level of femininity (not too much though) from a guy can be nice as girls may feel more playful around him and see him as having the potential to be playful around their potential children (in contrast with a guy with no femininity at all and being very aggressive as women may not want the husband to be nothing but aggressive to her and the potential children.)  There can be a balance of not being too much of a pushover/feminine but yet having some.

7 hours ago, SamC said:

Again, I don't think woman should try to " connect with them" and honestly, I think woman are unable to because then the whole point of moving towards union wouldn't make sense.

Some effort of trying to connect with one's partner and understand them can be helpful for both sides to do otherwise we may not be on the same page, not understand, not be willing to work it out, and it may create cycles of yelling, not talking to each other, breaking up, getting back together, then something happens but yet one or both parties are again still not considering trying to understand/connect and the cycle repeats.  Hence so many people do not try to connect with their partner and they just end up getting a divorce/breaking up.  Connection can be hard especially when one's ego doesn't want to admit that it is creating the problem by not trying to connect.  Just because we understand each other better doesn't mean that the woman will turn into a man or vice versa.

7 hours ago, SamC said:

The masculine needs to learn how to hold space, understand and protect the feminine - not the other way around. That said - if you really wanna know... it's very difficult as a man to be pushed away by the feminine, because you feel very missunderstood - just like a lot of woman feel in regards to men.

Exactly so you don't want to be misunderstood and so you want your partner to put in some effort to understand you which may be pretty rocky depending on how much the partner has tried before at understanding their partner.

7 hours ago, SamC said:

Yeah - and that's the catch 22. those types of men are the biggest challenge for females to integrate and understand because it goes against your safety and survival.

It is challenging when the male is being aggressive and so we have to be more patient and the need to understand is even greater so that the aggressiveness is as little as possible and can be avoided as much as possible. 

7 hours ago, SamC said:

Thanks! Yeah this makes a  lot of sense. You want different colors in differnt  contexts.

Yeah. No probs.

7 hours ago, SamC said:

( which is = to social calibration... what does the woman need me to be in order for her to feel safe and sound)

Money, home, attention, food, love, inspiration

5 hours ago, SamC said:

I have another specific question for you. Do you think its possible for the feminine to underdstand the masculine perspective and the challenges that goes with it? Isn't understanding the masculine in contradiction to the feminine survival because she has to push " dangerous" masculinity away from her?

We can just try our best if we are willing and interested in trying to understand and work through it. 

4 hours ago, zazen said:

Its not impossible, but more improbable. Due to evolution men have a greater ability to abstract/understand/use logic, its not that it doesn't exist in women, just less so. Women are more emotion centric than men, generally in conversation you hear women say I feel rather than men who say I think.

Part of me is upset reading the idea that men are better at "abstract/understand/use logic" but yet that is an emotional rather than logical response haha 

[SamC]

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

 

Some guys can be quite afraid to talk to girls or feel intimidated by them.  Not all guys though.  I think it will depend on many factors like personality, looks, past experience, social norms, etc.  But past the stage of seeking a partner, it may be that guys do not feel fear other than a potential fear of losing one's partner or their partner doing things that they do not approve of.  There could be a fear that the partner is going to do xyz wrong and have abc impact.

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

People have bulldogs and have fear that the dog could bite them when the dog is angry but yet love the dog otherwise.  People may fear the police for the sake of what the police could do to them but yet also love that the police provide more safety.  I may fear the rain as it could drown me but also love to look at it and what it provides for the trees.  I may fear rollercoasters of the idea that I could fall off or get hurt but yet love the thrill.

'

@PepperBlossoms Good analogy. Thanks. So in a way we are afraid of what we are afraid of giving the context and it´s no different what we are afraid of other than the context.  This ties into what you said above, that men are afraid of women. Males also have an ambivalence but it´s based on another fear - so in a sense, it´s no different, bút it has different consequences. Men are not afraid of women because of them being women, they are afraid of them because of the rejection, that is hardwired into us as being super dangerous. The key difference here I think is that men can overcome this fear, while women can´t due to it being more fundamental to their survival than for men,

What do you think about that notion? 

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

It can be tough for women when they get rejected by men as well - and they can also sense the disconnection in contrast to obtaining the connection that they wanted and feel sad about that.  Some level of femininity (not too much though) from a guy can be nice as girls may feel more playful around him and see him as having the potential to be playful around their potential children (in contrast with a guy with no femininity at all and being very aggressive as women may not want the husband to be nothing but aggressive to her and the potential children.)  There can be a balance of not being too much of a pushover/feminine but yet having some.

Yeah, I honestly think that it is tougher for the ones that have shadow feminine elements ( which is all of us) but women tend to have more of that ( maybe). What you´re saying ties well in with my newly founded realization that women want men to be everything that enables their feminity in any given moment... and because of that - it´s all very context-sensitive.

This is the honorable sacrifice and honestly almost submission that the MASCULINE does for the feminine. It acts as a container that is modified for the feminine to live in

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Some effort of trying to connect with one's partner and understand them can be helpful for both sides to do otherwise we may not be on the same page, not understand, not be willing to work it out, and it may create cycles of yelling, not talking to each other, breaking up, getting back together, then something happens but yet one or both parties are again still not considering trying to understand/connect and the cycle repeats.  Hence so many people do not try to connect with their partner and they just end up getting a divorce/breaking up.  Connection can be hard especially when one's ego doesn't want to admit that it is creating the problem by not trying to connect.  Just because we understand each other better doesn't mean that the woman will turn into a man or vice versa.

Yeah, I agree. I wonder however if women are able to truly understand the masculine perspective because of the nature of feminity, Of course, both should seek to understand each other and I think both can but I  also believe that the feminine always will view the masculine problems with fear and therefore not see it as it is - because if the masculine is in imbalance, the feminine is in danger.

This is something I am investigating more into so I might be wrong but I honestly think there is something to it. For example, in Teal´s Swan's video on nice guys, it´s very evident that she is disgusted by pushover nice guys and I believe the reason for this is because they fucking are disgusting, in the point of view of women because they signal DANGER. This projection however is not the absolute truth/ love though, because it´s skewed so it creates a generalized bias that is impossible to step away from fully. Men have these biases as well but I don´t think we are as hindered by them in the sense that we can´t break out of them - because we don´t have this basic fear that all women constantly feel when it comes to men.

If men have an abundance of girls and get rejected over and over and over again he will eventually stop caring. Women on the other hand can´t escape men potentially being dangerous to them - no matter what.

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Exactly so you don't want to be misunderstood and so you want your partner to put in some effort to understand you which may be pretty rocky depending on how much the partner has tried before at understanding their partner.

Yeah.. but most importantly I want to understand and trust myself. When I do that - I will trust and understand others and then they will want to trust and understand me. It all starts with the inside.

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

It is challenging when the male is being aggressive and so we have to be more patient and the need to understand is even greater so that the aggressiveness is as little as possible and can be avoided as much as possible. 

Yeah. No probs.

Money, home, attention, food, love, inspiration

We can just try our best if we are willing and interested in trying to understand and work through it. 

Yeah, so the female strategy is to understand the male and what he signals out so in a way women are hard-wired to understand men perfectly... the only thing is that it is filtered through the lens of safety.  The understanding is biased because it has to be because the understanding is a survival strategy that women use all their lives.

1 hour ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Part of me is upset reading the idea that men are better at "abstract/understand/use logic" but yet that is an emotional rather than logical response haha 

Yeah, so better realize that and not be emotional to not prove the point

[Nahm]

@SamC

 

On 10/25/2021 at 1:38 PM, SamC said:

Women are afraid of men... yet at the same time LOVE men

How do you know that? How can you tell & be so sure you aren’t projecting fear onto females? If you’re projecting from your experiences, what experiences? If it’s not projection and is direct experience, what did she say? Did she share what in her experience led to fearing men? 

[SamC]

53 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@SamC

 

How do you know that? How can you tell & be so sure you aren’t projecting fear onto females? If you’re projecting from your experiences, what experiences? If it’s not projection and is direct experience, what did she say? Did she share what in her experience led to fearing men? 

@Nahm Oh - I don´t doubt that I am projecting. I am actually kind of banking on that. I am myself terrifed of the masculine but I still belive that there is some truth to the fact that woman experience a fear in regards to the masculine aswell ( atleast those who have made it to be dangerous in their mind,) I don´t why but this popped in my head now, woman are not afraid of masculinity, woman are afraid of toxic masculinity.

The direct experience that I have is woman telling me that and intuitive insights if that makes sense, that informs me of aspects of reality. One example of this is that woman´s life´s are govurned by fear and seeking security as a way to freely express itself, kind of like the yin yang. My hope with this post is to get to the truth no matter what it is. I know that I don´t see this clearly and are projecting a lot of fear, and it´s that that I am trying to work my way out of to then trancend. One girl who explicity said Yes when I asked her, have had significant trauma and lost his dad and is repressing her masculine side ( I think). She has atleast trouble with how she relates to the masculine inside.