Going beyond self-realization

[aetheroar]

Over the past couple years I have been in this work, ramping up strongly around this springtime. The conditioned influence was quite deep, but the Dharma was practically shoving itself down my throat. Over the past 6 months, life has appeared like this: wake up, meditate with morning tea, meditate/insight all day with breaks for food, sleep. Barely any human interaction, just seriously deep in the work. There have been many realizations and the mind has come into complete stillness. About 90% of the day is spent in non-localized awareness with a non-dual relationship to all phenomena.

On September 18th, all attachments were cut, awareness/sense of self brought fully in, the body container was released/dissolved, and the pinpoint essence of self vanished. The awareness filled in the space, the meditating mind merged into the emptiness, and from that point forward there has clearly been no self, no separation. What was wanted disappeared with the wanter, yet there remains no God realization.

“I” reside nowhere, clearly and obviously. This is not a conceptual understanding but a blatant Truth which is unshakably known at all times. It’s as if “I” was flipped inside out, now the borders of awareness end at the perceivable phenomenon within the environment. But even therein there is no “I” to be found.

There has been no teacher with which to consult with during this time.

Here’s the dilemma: the mind has gone. Meditation has become totally empty of anything — no meditator, no meditation. How can one who is not merge with God consciousness? How to transcend the environment and become boundless?

It’s as if there’s a piece of the puzzle missing. The paradigm is expansive but there seems to be no way to deepen the understanding from here. Is there any further than Self-realization? The jhanas are seemingly inaccessible even with a completely stilled mind. The fourth jhana is the resting place of this mind almost always. Cessation is accessable relatively easily but doesn’t seem to have any effects anymore.

[gettoefl]

this is beautiful thanks ... way beyond me, but have you considered psychedelics 

[fi1ghtclub]

Have you considered stepping out in the world and challenging yourself now?

[aetheroar]

@gettoefl thank you 

There was a period of time during this where I was smoking DMT at the peak of meditation to clarify/realize any insights I was having. Now my normal state of consciousness is where DMT used to take it and smoking it gives no effect.

[aetheroar]

@fi1ghtclub Mmm yes, there’s been an automatic flow back into the world...used to be very introverted. Now the body is magnetically attracted to other humans. The interactions are very serendipitous and everything is smooth as butter. It’s been about 6 months of true uninterrupted happiness for me...no difference between a day at home alone or a day in town with friends.

There does seem to be a pull to connect deeper all-around, which is why this post was created...without separation there is no space, so how can this feeling be that there is some level deeper?

[WelcometoReality]

41 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

Here’s the dilemma: the mind has gone. Meditation has become totally empty of anything — no meditator, no meditation. How can one who is not merge with God consciousness? How to transcend the environment and become boundless?

Be the boundless nothingness and the rest will take care of itself. The dilemma and the questions comes from the mind and the mind can't go to the place where it wants to go. 

You are exactly where you supposed to be which is right here in this moment. From here it's all about seeing through the illusion of the next thought and feeling and surrender them.

[aetheroar]

@WelcometoReality thank you. This has seemed to be the proper direction. 

[Salvijus]

Hi  @aetheroar

Great post. When you say gods realization do you mean state of infinite love or smth?

I think from a purely intelectual level there can't be anything beyond nothingness and that nothingness is your self. That's self-realization. Maybe levels of ego dissolution can be there but nothingness has no levels. I mean it's just logical, you'd have to dumb to disagree ? but states of love is a different thing. Idk if there's anyone here who could help you. If the claims you made are true, then you should know better than anybody here about these things.

Regards ?❤

Edited October 25, 2021 by Salvijus

[WelcometoReality]

11 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

@WelcometoReality thank you. This has seemed to be the proper direction. 

Let thought go, connect to intuition and let it lead the way. ?

[aetheroar]

@Salvijus  Hmm, infinite anything seems to be what calls out as “unrealized”. There’s some things read and some things realized. I tend to not carry things read along with the brain, and in fact lately tend to carry nothing at all, which is why it seems confusing. What is left to empty out?

The realization went like this:

Bring entire sense of self to one point inside the mind. Dissolve the container. Poof, now “I”, the emptiness, resides in the space between forms. Emptiness can not be perceived without form, so that duality collapses and now it’s a seamless whole.

To be honest, I’ve never had a strong self sense. This mind has a thing called aphantasia (no minds eye), so the inner world has never really held anything beyond ideas (no actual substance, which is true for everyone but luckily for “me” it’s seemed quite obvious). No visuals on psychedelics and even dreams occur in conceptual format. Early on I realized the unreality of concepts, which along with no-self allowed me to stop objectifying, release preferences, and recognize the perfection in all things.

There is a definite bias thinking that there’s more than full unification with the present moment based on what I’ve heard about “God-consciousness” but there’s literally nothing in this direct experience to point to that as a deeper truth.

I suppose that, yes, “infinite love” is what seems to be missing. It’s a deeply peaceful state, but very limited feeling...definitely not something one would label “infinite” anything.

[Salvijus]

I see, I think I can relate a little bit. There's just primordial nothingness as an ever present presence that can't be found or pointed to. That I am. That's self-realization for me. But definitely no sense of infinity or supernova galactic explosion of energy. It's just nondual nothingness beyond any quality and makes no sense whatsoever.

I think the sense of infinity when people speak, they speak about an infinite mind which comes after 4th jhana, where all the telephaty and godstuff opens up. I'm not a budhhist so it's not my territory but I've heard goenka slightly talk about it in his satipatthana discourse about these things.

It's also possible that you simply skipped those states and went straight to shoonya or total dissolution. Which is very possible if you followed a budhhist teaching because buddha was very clear that total dissolution is the only important thing, everything else is just a spiritual entertainment. They do this in yoga aswell. I think you'd enjoy watching this video. There's a full video on this subject in the sadhguru exclusive app but it's not available for free sorry ?

Pranam  ?

Edited October 25, 2021 by Salvijus

[Nahm]

This sounds like no self realization (psychological / cognitive, yet actual realization) vs Self realization (ineffable). Some thought activity / paradigms are finicky, like possession of / experience of states of consciousness, God realization, etc. With no self, there remains still consciousness. With self realization there isn’t / wasn’t consciousness, God, states, etc. ‘It’s’ realized to be communicative as words or pointings but not actual, and similarly, happiness. In the sense no self realization is the collapse of the “I” and of the repetition of distinctions previously innocently misconceived (duality, subject object thoughts, self referential thoughts, etc) , self realization is the apocalypse of reality. (Not meant poetically or as an embellishment). 

[caspex]

Do you masturbate? How often? What's your gender? (Just wanting to relate if masturbating has any effect on arriving where you are now)

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, Swarnim said:

Do you masturbate? How often? What's your gender? (Just wanting to relate if masturbating has any effect on arriving where you are now)

What kind of question is this, lol..... as a a guy with a moderator hat on, can you elaborate on why your asking this....It seems so left field, its hilarious. 

Its like if I told you I'm a master swimmer, and you asked if anal the night before, helps me perform better during race day.

[Mu_]

14 hours ago, aetheroar said:

Over the past couple years I have been in this work, ramping up strongly around this springtime. The conditioned influence was quite deep, but the Dharma was practically shoving itself down my throat. Over the past 6 months, life has appeared like this: wake up, meditate with morning tea, meditate/insight all day with breaks for food, sleep. Barely any human interaction, just seriously deep in the work. There have been many realizations and the mind has come into complete stillness. About 90% of the day is spent in non-localized awareness with a non-dual relationship to all phenomena.

On September 18th, all attachments were cut, awareness/sense of self brought fully in, the body container was released/dissolved, and the pinpoint essence of self vanished. The awareness filled in the space, the meditating mind merged into the emptiness, and from that point forward there has clearly been no self, no separation. What was wanted disappeared with the wanter, yet there remains no God realization.

“I” reside nowhere, clearly and obviously. This is not a conceptual understanding but a blatant Truth which is unshakably known at all times. It’s as if “I” was flipped inside out, now the borders of awareness end at the perceivable phenomenon within the environment. But even therein there is no “I” to be found.

There has been no teacher with which to consult with during this time.

Here’s the dilemma: the mind has gone. Meditation has become totally empty of anything — no meditator, no meditation. How can one who is not merge with God consciousness? How to transcend the environment and become boundless?

It’s as if there’s a piece of the puzzle missing. The paradigm is expansive but there seems to be no way to deepen the understanding from here. Is there any further than Self-realization? The jhanas are seemingly inaccessible even with a completely stilled mind. The fourth jhana is the resting place of this mind almost always. Cessation is accessable relatively easily but doesn’t seem to have any effects anymore.

Ya I agree with the advice given so far, just let such questions go for now, and let life unfold.  In time the questions still lingering may or may not be answered, or may become irrelevant, either way, your not missing out.  Right now is always eternal and total, it could never not be.

Maybe this short video can both energetically point to such and logically make a understandble connection....

 

[Breakingthewall]

20 hours ago, aetheroar said:

@gettoefl thank you 

There was a period of time during this where I was smoking DMT at the peak of meditation to clarify/realize any insights I was having. Now my normal state of consciousness is where DMT used to take it and smoking it gives no effect.

 NN DMT or 5 Meo DMT ? Have you considered that new substance, 5 Meo malt?

as I have read, there is a stage before enlightenment, in which the meditator is in total emptiness. he is supposed to penetrate this void, soak himself in it, until the void reveals itself as god. this happens with artificial means like the 5meo dmt with some ease.

Maybe this could help, but here isn't that description of the stages of meditation that i read before, i couldn't find

https://paulbrunton.org/notebooks/23/8

Edited October 26, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[aetheroar]

@Salvijus This seems to be the likely scenario...the actual reading I've done on the path has pretty much been just The Heart Sutra and Diamond Sutra. A few other things here and there and very quickly realized that anything that says "this path is THE path" was going to get me stuck in concepts again, so it's been just direct experience insight from there out. I have definitely heard that mystical states are also largely fabricated and they aren't full disillusion. Thank you for the video, will take a look at it.

[aetheroar]

@Swarnim  I do not anymore, it alters the flow of energy dramatically. I see the relevance of your question and if you are considering stopping, I'd recommend it, but it will only work if by doing so you don't create aversion and you don't just transfer addictive tendencies to something else. It could be seen as extreme clinging to phenomena, creating a deep bias that one sensation is better than others.

[caspex]

9 hours ago, Mu_ said:

What kind of question is this, lol..... as a a guy with a moderator hat on, can you elaborate on why your asking this....It seems so left field, its hilarious. 

Its like if I told you I'm a master swimmer, and you asked if anal the night before, helps me perform better during race day.

@Mu_

Oh I pointed it out in the brackets. I want to see if masturbation has any effect on reaching embodiment such as the OP. Because I have noticed personally that less masturbation somehow boosts my spiritual practices. So just wanted some idea if masturbation is indeed a factor affecting embodiment or not. I'd guess not really but it's always good to know other's experiences. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Swarnim

[caspex]

 

1 minute ago, aetheroar said:

@Swarnim  I do not anymore, it alters the flow of energy dramatically. I see the relevance of your question and if you are considering stopping, I'd recommend it, but it will only work if by doing so you don't create aversion and you don't just transfer addictive tendencies to something else. It could be seen as extreme clinging to phenomena, creating a deep bias that one sensation is better than others.

@aetheroar Can I dm you to ask some questions? I don't want this post to become about masturbation.