Why you must be more careful about when to use psychedelics

[Salvijus]

@Snader @HypnoticMagician  ?

[Snader]

56 minutes ago, HypnoticMagician said:

This doesn't make psychedelics the only way to go beyond logic.

No it doesn't, but it makes them freakin' good of a tool.

And there isn't only logic and beyond, there are levels of beyond. If depth beyond is what you're after, I'd bet my money into psychedelics over any other known method.

[WokeBloke]

This is a tricky subject. My opinion is one can not understand psychedelics fully without actually taking them. 

Psychedelics are fundamentally different drugs than alcohol, smoking, meth, etc. I saw psychedelics cure my father's alcoholism and I am seeing the difference they are making in my family's life. 

So at the end of the day the true guru must try everything or else he/she is not a guru. Has Sadhguru and Ramana Maharshi taken billions of hits of acid? They probably have taken lots and lots but I personally don't think they have taken every psychedelic they will ever take.

[happyhappy]

14 hours ago, Ineedanswers said:

@happyhappy have you ever tried psychadelics machn? If so is it as life changing as Leo,joerogan,Sam Harris etc say it is?

no i haven't .. but from the thousands of personal research in to it, i am inclined to believe it is a great tool to gain god consciousness.

yet, it is not the only way ig...  rather than ending up in a sri lankan jail for hauling psychedelics, rather use other techniques....

[Salvijus]

16 hours ago, HypnoticMagician said:

40 years? Are you serious? There many people who reach enlightenment without using anything like psychedelics or artificial DMT. For all that, there also a lot of people who fail in this enlightenment process no matter how many different types of it they have tried for however long.

Haha, 40years is peanuts bro. I think as long as one is alive he can grow his consciouness until the last day of his life. Even if somebody is at the level of Jesus Christ and can resurect the dead he can still grow more and more and more. There's no end to it (probably). This is why for me adopting a spiritual dicipline and make it a part of one's life is so important. To make one's life into a constant process of growth and just grow, that's all. It doesn't even matter how far you go, simply go forward. Rise your consciouness endlessly. Like this life just keeps getting better and better, each day becomes the new best day. That's how entire existence is like, everything is just evolving higher and higher. That's how I see it, at least ?

It only sounds scary, but really it happens all on its own effortlessly. In the beginning only the effort is needed to push start the process, to come to a certain state of realization and presence. After that you just sit back and enjoy the ride of life. Of course self-realization doesn't take that long, but it's also not the end of growth.

❤

Edited October 24, 2021 by Salvijus

[SgtPepper]

I don't feel like I can convince you of your beliefs, however, a lot of what you said is wrong or unfounded according to my research.

You say mushrooms are poisonous, where are you getting your information? Science says it is the least toxic substance and less toxic to our body than caffeine, which is ingested daily by the average American.

You say they don't help people spiritually or mentally, yet there are several studies that say otherwise. Good Friday experiment, James Fadiman's experiments suggest it helps with problem solving, Yale and John Hopkins study show decreased levels of anxiety and depression. Decrease in addictions through the use of Ayahuasca, ibogaine, and LSD (popularized by AA founder Bill Wilson) 

Half of what you wrote is fear mongering, "your brain will burn"?? lol, what is your understanding of biology dude?

I do agree that raising our consciousness is a lifelong pursuit that necessitates regular practice, like going to the gym. I am going to need some powerful evidence even if it is anecdotal to convince me that psychedelics are anything but the Food of God. 

[Shin]

Don't try to go against what is already happening, that will only lead you to suffering bro

[HypnoticMagician]

@SgtPepper

"according to my research"

That's the problem. According to your research... Are you a scientist? What qualifications do you have?

"You say mushrooms are poisonous, where are you getting your information? Science says it is the least toxic substance and less toxic to our body than caffeine, which is ingested daily by the average American."

Well, I have never seen anybody who died from consuming too much caffeine. This thing was kept being consumed for days, months, years, even decades by same people yet nothing happened. But there are more news talking about people who die for eating wrong kind of mushroom.

"Half of what you wrote is fear mongering, "your brain will burn"?? lol, what is your understanding of biology dude?"

Don't you understand I do metaphor here. Hehe.

"You say they don't help people spiritually or mentally, yet there are several studies that say otherwise. Good Friday experiment, James Fadiman's experiments suggest it helps with problem solving, Yale and John Hopkins study show decreased levels of anxiety and depression. Decrease in addictions through the use of Ayahuasca, ibogaine, and LSD (popularized by AA founder Bill Wilson) "

I agree with this part. I might have been too judgemental against use of psychedelics regardless of how dangerous it is when done in wrong way or of not being that indispensable. It still has some validity although not so essential.

[Arcangelo]

On 10/23/2021 at 3:20 AM, HypnoticMagician said:

I strongly recommend against psychedelics. They are very few people who ostensibly benefit from such a thing. Psychedelics simply do not have any effect on most people. They reach same insights. They still talk about the already existing same information inside their head. Claiming they have made contact with a "spiritual entity" or reached "god recognition". And most of those who overdose psychedelics just because they don't have any effect at first end up being hospitalized. So what's the point?
I don't think this psychedelics thing benefits you this much. When you examine people with high IQ, concentration ability, continuous bliss, for example, you realize none of them are taking anything like a special drug, be it psychedelics or any supplement at all. What does that mean? That means you are just doing something else wrong. You need to find that thing. Of course, it will take a lot of time and effort. Nothing hard is easy to achieve. Very similar to the process of gaining muscle. It will be very painful at first. It will be very difficult to lift even the lightest weights. But you need more patience and perseverance. Otherwise, If you keep thinking like this, constantly trying to reach perfect results without putting sufficient effort into it, you will not be able to arrive anywhere. There is no short-cut. At least, not possible when you consider today's primitive advancement of technology when compared with what artificial general intelligence could achieve once found.

When it comes to the dosing, it depends on what psychedelics you use. If you take mushroom, for example, which is naturally poisonous, you need to be careful about the amount you take on your "trip". Even when you take LSD, overdosing causes "bad trip". If you choose to take less, you'll have little to no effect. Most of the time, maybe, all the time, psychedelics do not cure any psychiatric illnesses. It can't resolve excessively heavy brain sickness, it is claimed to solve mild mental illnesses even though I highly doubt if it is really psychedelics that cure these other than placebo. What logical use could psychedelics have other than confusion, sorry, "deep insights"? The reason depression or obsession patients can't cure their illnesses with psychedelics is because they have set up a lot of wrong, inefficient, misleading, twisted connections and accumulated domain-specific dopamin addictions that you can't target directly apart from holistic targeting. Not so different from taking a lot of methylphenidate instead of patiently trying find out what you did wrong and lost your mind. Just because the the person in question can't pay attention to things he would like to, she stupidly keeps taking more and more of these sorts of dangerous pills. Your brain will burn. That's very similar to loading a very inefficient computer program to a better hardware instead of changing those inefficient algorithms. If there is an infinite loop, you could even damage the CPU no matter how powerful the new hardware is. So what's the point of psychedelics? Even the lightest psychiatric drugs can lead to sudden deaths let alone terrifying and sometimes permanent side effects once abused. Encouraging random people to use psychedelics is a terrible idea. Even if that person's illness is seemingly untreatable, psychedelics is last means you should resort to, maybe never. Understanding of biology of the members in the forum is limited. So think twice, talk once.

You are in the wrong forum buddy

[Arcangelo]

On 10/23/2021 at 4:15 AM, HypnoticMagician said:

So psychedelics are a good tool to eliminate retarded people.

LOL!

[SgtPepper]

@HypnoticMagician

My qualification are BA in Psychology, minor in neuroscience, and MA in general psychology, and while I do not have extensive practical research experience, I have some and am familiar with what is generally regarded as legitimate science which is generally speaking, peer-reviewed research by credible journals. I've written several literature reviews for graduate courses. My work at the moment is Behavior Analyst which is the science of behavior, so my whole work is around science and whether a methodology is valid at solving something, and my knowledge of science is only growing. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not a master at science, but please prove me wrong with some evidence that psychedelics are as bad as you say.

13 minutes ago, HypnoticMagician said:

Well, I have never seen anybody who died from consuming too much caffeine. This thing was kept being consumed for days, months, years, even decades by same people yet nothing happened. But there are more news talking about people who die for eating wrong kind of mushroom.

Yes that is because there are a multitude of different species. That doesn't mean that Psilocybin Mushrooms kind will kill you though. If you visit the wikipedia page of Psilocybin you will find a graph that shows them being the lowest in toxicity and dependency in comparison to any other substance. 

I don't throw out psilocybin because some other specie of mushroom is poisonous. 

25 minutes ago, HypnoticMagician said:

I might have been too judgemental against use of psychedelics regardless of how dangerous it is when done in wrong way or of not being that indispensable. It still has some validity although not so essential.

I am not going to discount the danger of them. They can still be dangerous to an individual and group if used irresponsibly, ya know. I am for responsible, even therapist-led sessions where people can safely contemplate and experience them without any fear of dying or abuse of the nervous system. I suppose it is important to balance the talk of their benefits with their risks. 

28 minutes ago, HypnoticMagician said:

"Half of what you wrote is fear mongering, "your brain will burn"?? lol, what is your understanding of biology dude?"

Don't you understand I do metaphor here. Hehe.

yeah that's fine, I just thought you were insinuating that you were more aware of biology than others on this forum, but you were saying stuff like your brain will burn which is not something a biologist would say lol. I don't mean anything ill by it . 

[Arcangelo]

26 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

My qualification are BA in Psychology, minor in neuroscience, and MA in general psychology

DAMn!

This is like talking to someone and putting the gun on the table.

I love it!

You guys are so wrong is funny.

Go smoke some Xanga-DMT and report back

[HypnoticMagician]

@SgtPepper

"neuroscience"

Cool! I am happy for you. Then, there is are a lot I can learn from you too

Great if there are mushroom species who are not that poisonous and are sufficiently safe. When it comes to the brain burning issue, don't worry, I am not that layman. lol.

[Arcangelo]

Just now, Arcangelo said:

You guys are so wrong is funny.

Not you @SgtPepper

[eman]

I'm sorry I could only read like 70% of your rambling OP. Clearly, you have an ego blockage and 0 psychedelic experience. Or at least 0 with the correct set and setting. 

And all of your claims about them not having any healing benefits, just listen to this : 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzvzWO0NU50&t=4065s

and stop spreading nonsense.

[HypnoticMagician]

@eman

Well, the problem is not your ego. The problem is not being able to disable your ego when necessary unlike what's said by most buddhist guys who meditate for years, take a lot of psychedelics yet still do not become enlightened. Are you still at it like most?

You can understand that not all my arguments are wrong even by reading 70% of it. I have already corrected myself saying psychedelics may still be considered valid for some occasions although I prefer natural nootropics more.

I am not spreading nonsense, just spreading my opinion.

[HypnoticMagician]

I added extra details to the topic that could help more people.

[SgtPepper]

2 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Go smoke some Xanga-DMT and report back

I have done exactly this, only once, and I can confirm that it is legit-ness. 

@HypnoticMagician

I think your concerns are valid, I just have immense respect for them. so your post triggers my heart. I wanted to share how great they are and for you to not have such as evil taste about them because it does not seem grounded in actuality or truthful information about them.

Let's learn from each other!

I am wondering what exactly are your biggest fear surrounding psychedelics? 

I feel like you don't appreciate the exaggerated narrative as a 'cure all' that many psychonauts espouse?

and that you may feeling doubtful about their safety or healthiness of their use?

like did you have a bad experience with them? 

Part of the reason why I don't experience this is because I have a bit of nuance understanding in what role they should play in my spiritual development than maybe other psychonauts. 

I love psilocybin mushrooms as you can tell by my avatar, but it's not like I'm tripping every week, I take em about 4 times a year. and there is journaling, meditation, contemplation, church, reading scripture (the Bible), in between to help me stay grounded and also digest my trips.

I am not too concerned with the health side because I only use ones that I know are physically safe, the ones that have been studied or are traditional.

[Salvijus]

I think what most people fail to see is that improving your life, rising your baseline, evolving higher and higher existencially, overcoming our own stupidness on a daily basis is more important than temporary peak psychedelic experiences. 

Psychedelic experiences are nice, there's nothing wrong with it, but would anyone do them if it was a clear fact that they lower baseline, slow your evolution down, puts you backward? I think nobody would do them if that was the case. This shows that everybody values growth more than temporary experiences, if you're open enough to see it.

The problem is there are cases where people actually benefit from them, they improve their life, rise baseline maybe, make them more loving etc. And that is wonderful. But the problem is that it only happens to few, the majority only damage themselves in ways they're not even aware of and get nothing out if it. Just a beautiful experience that makes them elated for a few days, and then drops down to the same place and become even more depressed, more broken, trying desperatly to go back to that experience to escape their problems. This leads to abuse of psychedelics, irresponsible usage, and enourmous degradation of that person and his spiritual growth.

And in the end, even if you can gain positive impact from psychedelics, one thing is there's an inevitable damage to the system that normal people are usually too unaware to see because it's on a subtle level and the second thing is even if you benefit from them a somewhat, there are much better ways of achieving the same results through natural means of spirituality. If improvent of life and rising consciouness is your concern, natural systems of spirituality is a much wiser way of doing things. Psychedelics work only for a few, damages everyone without exception and the benefits that you embody into your normal state is either zero or negative or very minimal compared what you could get if you seriously invested your time and energy into a valid spiritual dicipline. And it's just not worth the trouble to get those lame results if any at all.

This phylosophy only works if you understand that rising the baseline quality of your life is more important than having peak experiences. What's the point of having self-realization experience if when you come back you're still the same miserable stupid ignorant guy? Or worse, you become super arrogant and start to think you're greater than the buddha when you can't even stop masturbating like an ape, lol. (sorry)?

When you see that this whole game of life is about going higher from one state to another consistently, steadily evolving higher and higher like the rest of the universe then you understand psychedelics are not as great as they seem and they have any number of problems attached to them. Nobody is against psychedelics, it's just that there are better ways of doing things, that's all, psychedelics are a poor solution to your problems that works only sometimes and for very few. Unless you know a real shaman who could guide you properly, then it's a different story altogether.

I hope this didn't sound like too much of an anti-psychedelic rampage or smth? Just thought there's some value in typing this, sorry if this triggers somebody ?

❤

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Salvijus