Best psychedelic against panic attack

[OBEler]

Hello there,

is there a recommendation for microdosing psychedelics or taking a high dose of psychedelics against panic attacks? my girlfriend had strong trauma from her past, she was bullied. Now 15 years later her music teacher bullies her a little because she plays not so good and now her panic attacks come back.

She takes high doses of lsd (200 micro), it heals a bit but her panic attacks stay

What would be best? Is 5 meo dmt a good choice?

[OneHandClap]

Honestly, I would not recommend psychedelics for stemming panic attacks. They are not good tools for preventing or stopping a mental tailspin if somebody is predisposed to anxiety. Occasional tripping can loosen anxiety/depression over time, but it's not a great first-line approach. There is a class of drugs called beta blockers that can be useful if their anxiety is mainly physical. Beta blockers are not addictive, not prone to overdoses, and have practically no side effects other than lowered blood pressure. 

They're really useful and better for the brain than something like benzos, for example. If your GF has consistent panic attacks, beta blockers may help to rewire the brain and deal with the anxious thoughts separated from physical stimuli. 

[OBEler]

@OneHandClap thanks for your advice!

She trips regulary every week on lsd mostly, sometimes mdma, shrooms. Do beta blocker interfere with psycedelics?

Never heard of beta blockers, hope these are not anti depressants (which have heavy side effects)

[OneHandClap]

2 hours ago, OBEler said:

@OneHandClap thanks for your advice!

She trips regulary every week on lsd mostly, sometimes mdma, shrooms. Do beta blocker interfere with psycedelics?

Never heard of beta blockers, hope these are not anti depressants (which have heavy side effects)

No, beta blockers are mainly for heart health, but they have practically no side effects, unlike SSRIs (AKA antidepressants). Beta blockers are often used for public speaking or big events, but they can also stop a physical panic attack. By the way, I would tell her to take it very, very easy on the MDMA. She can really mess up her serotonin levels doing it more than once every few (2-3) months. I believe even the creator of MDMA said twice a year, or something to that effect. Maybe four times? I forget. But yeah, she should definitely not do it more than once in a blue moon. 

[OBEler]

@OneHandClap She does MDMA every 6 Month. She get a lot of gratefulness. However the love component all people talk about she doesnt feel. I think that would heal her completely. Do you know what dosage and setting is needed to have the Love-Component?

She is sitting in silence in the room when taking mdma

 

[Thought Art]

Learn to breath properly, relax your muscles, purge stagnant chi and regulate your emotions. Panic attacks have many reasons, one being you simply lack a skillset and awareness of the mind body connection and the nature of your thoughts. Also stop smoking. Sleep properly, get off social media, eat properly. Improve your posture and for god sakes breath ahah

Consider the following:

1. Developing a Yoga, Qigong, meditation or breath-work practice. Pick one, I recommend Qigong.

2. Working on your normal breathing, and your posture

3. Start a daily journaling routine

4. Eat well, take a break from social media, spend time in nature, sleep regularly, stop smoking.

5. Take time to really FEEL what you feel. Just feel it. We don't know how to feel in our culture.

Your lungs if you are smoking all the time... They will give you anxiety and panic attacks because Oxygen regulates all the bodies processes.

Also consider seeking a professional therapist or councillor you can speak to. 

Betterhelp is a decent enough online service and there are many others.

This should be a daily practice.

That with maybe some LSD or mushrooms once every few months. If she is already tripping reguraly her problem isn't likely lack of psychedelics. 5meo might be nice actually if she already trips often. However, really it sounds like her problem is a lack of skill.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Thought Art

[OBEler]

@Thought Art Thank you very much, all these points you mentioned she already did in her past with enormous effects. However she hates scedules and routines. She is not the personality type for this. So she needs to be in the mood to do them. However the real effects start only if you do them regulary. So there lies the problem

Two days ago she took 200 micro LSD, her highest dose. It was very positive and she feels somehow reborn. I ask me if her next trip should be a middle strong dose shrooms to cure her ptsd (she did only one time shrooms with regular dose) or go directly to 5 meo.

She already did 6 mg 5 meo dmt rectally 3 month ago and had a strong positive reaction, she experienced self love. What do you think should I give her 15 mg rectal next time? She is ready to let go for sure. However she knows very little about 5 meo, but I don't know how I should prepare her for this experience and what I should tell her beforehand without unnecessary scare her? Maybe the best would be to tell it will be strong, powerful trip and this is normal

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by OBEler

[Thought Art]

@OBEler I am just saying... these are not techniques you just try. You need to do them regularly for a long time. It doesn't even need to be for long amounts of time. You have to work in life to get results. 

I think it's false there is a personality type for wellness practices. If you want it to be easy, then thats on you. 

How easy is your constant anxiety attacks? 

OF COURSE you aren't in the mood. If you are constantly anxious then you aren't in the mood for much.

If you are having constant panic attacks, you are deciding that there is value in it and preferring it over doing a small amout of emotional labour to change your state. You have to want to actually put down the fear and panic.

It's really not as useful as it seems.

If you aren't willing to feel, and use your body properly these substances aren't going to end that for you.

Anyway, I wish your friend luck. Good luck with your experiences and I hope she can find a way to enjoy these fun practices to improve her state.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Thought Art

[Breakingthewall]

If she has panic attacks because she was bullied in the past, and now her music teacher bullies her, this is the perfect opportunity to stand up. not everything is fixed with psychedelics, field work is essential. You have to get over this situation. it is absolutely important. it is not worth saying: it is more than i can, I cannot handle these situations. You have to do it, if not, life is going to put the same situation on you over and over again. It a shit, but it's life, there is no escape. Is she understands that, she will act

Edited October 23, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[OBEler]

@Breakingthewall So how do you think, that she can get over this situation? 

[Thought Art]

@OBEler Yes, learning to be assertive is worth it even if she makes mistakes. The more she practices standing up for herself, setting healthy boundaries she will realize its actually much easier and rewarding than she thinks.

Again I really don't know her situation. But, even though my initial take on assertiveness was actually aggression. I am glad I did it as I am learning to stand up for myself skillfully. 

She can do it, whatever she needs to do if she tries.

[OBEler]

@Thought Art I think the Problem is too deep. Such advices like stand up for yourself are good to prevent Problems like being bullied. But now its too late. She Was bullied and now has panic attacs. She cannot travel back In time you know? 

Its like you give an advice to someone who broke his back because of car crash to drive carefully next time. This will not help his broken back you know.. 

[LSD-Rumi]

@OBEler She has to heal her traumas. Psychedelics are there to face your inner fears and demons not to mask symptoms,  actually, psychedelics are very bad at masking symptoms.
She needs therapy,  those traumas are not gonna heal themselves. If she is comfortable with using psychedelics,  it would be a  great tool to use in therapy. Just convince her to talk to some good therapist. 

[Breakingthewall]

15 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Thought Art I think the Problem is too deep. Such advices like stand up for yourself are good to prevent Problems like being bullied. But now its too late. She Was bullied and now has panic attacs. She cannot travel back In time you know? 

Its like you give an advice to someone who broke his back because of car crash to drive carefully next time. This will not help his broken back you know.. 

A trauma is not a permanent injury, it can be completely healed. once you start to be assertive and courageous, you will go to more. every brave act is a cure for that trauma. the only remedy against fear is courage. If i were her, I would take advantage of this situation as a therapy. Nothing is really going to happen to her except having a hard time. She is brave as she dares with 200 ug of lsd. now he has to dare with people. What I would do is at some point that the teacher intimidates her, tell her: your attitude is aggressive, annoying. I feel insecure when it comes to improving. do you realize or maybe it's my thing? the teacher will be surprised and say: noooo, nothing like that, etc. and will intimidate again. and she will tell her again: now you do it again. I do not think that this way you help me improve. that the teacher thinks she is crazy? that your girlfriend says it stammering and in the middle of the sentence she starts crying?well, nothing happens. the important thing is to change the role of passive victim for that of standing up. some time you have to start, and now is the time. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Nahm]

@OBEler

Stop trying to be her source. It’s good intentioned but contributing to prohibiting her from the love. It’ll break your heart in a way, but stop enabling. Then you will see and you will be glad. Just for clarity sake, this is not the same as saying don’t help her, or don’t support her, or that she shouldn’t be trying things and seeking help. 

[OBEler]

@Nahm what Do you mean with stop being her source? 

Yeah I definitively need to support her otherwise its going down

[Nahm]

@OBEler
 What do you mean by it’s going down? 
 

In case I don’t hear back from ya on this one… panic attacks should be listened to, not fought against. It’s a lot like quicksand. Panic attack is a message in regard to resistance. To frame it up as something to fight against is to add more resistance, just like adding more quicksand is not gonna help someone in quicksand. You could up the dose, use stronger substances, etc, and indeed there will be momentary relief, but not lasting, and unfortunately this can backfire in a way too. Psychedelics can be both relieving, and one ton of quicksand, both as in the same trip… in the sense that in the relief, the thought activity hasn’t subsided, but feeling has been amped up, and then the thought activity resumes, while the sensitivity is heightened, and yada yada, hamster wheel I wouldn’t wish upon anyone. This is one of the main reasons I don’t recommend psychedelics (and neither do I suggest one shouldn’t take / use them either). Idk, but it’s quite possible this is what she’s experiencing with the teacher. What’s identified might be feeling resolved while it’s simultaneously projected under the radar onto the teacher. (Idk) Then what might be happening is enablement, or, you joining her in the believing of the thoughts, that he is a bully, and that’s how it ‘went down’. Again, IDK. You could be assisting is her not feeling sadness, which is the same as helping her to not feel & know her source. This is basically speculation from a few words you know what I mean? I don’t mean anything personally. Hope it doesn’t sound that way. I can easily sense how big your heart is, and this is pretty sensitive stuff. 

[OBEler]

@Nahm I understand, I should frame it different, panic attacs should not be resisted or fight against it but listened.

Yes psychedelics are a momentan relief from her mental illness. but for example with 200 micro lsd the relief just lasted for 2 days. She met all the gods, buddha, zeus, Gaya. She became Venus, the god of love. But it cures not her panic attacks

What do you think would happen if she became fully God realized with 5 meo dmt. Could this heal her?

 

I assist her to  feel sadness so far. However I also assist her beliefs about the teacher. This should stop, thanks for advice. I can feel that it is just a projection from her trauma on to the teacher.

Quote

 

Stop trying to be her source. It’s good intentioned but contributing to prohibiting her from the love. It’ll break your heart in a way, but stop enabling.

 

my english is not good enough to understand what you meant by this

Edited October 25, 2021 by OBEler

[Breakingthewall]

@OBEler she can do 5meo or whatever she want, it can be wonderful, or not. But regardless of that, she has to face her fear in real situations. there is no magic pill or shortcut. thinking that she cannot, that she is mutilated, you are cutting her wings. is that what you want maybe? If she wants to, she could do ufc fights or be a paratrooper for the navy seals (exaggerated and silly examples, but it's real). overcome that image of her as a mutilated victim or you will be weighing down her life. you have to think that she can with everything, and you too, because that is the reality, the human being can with any obstacle. something that helps a lot in these cases is doing activities that are so scary real. climbing, gliding, figth, talk in public maybe, etc. Yes, I know that it is more lazy than taking an acid in your room, but we are alive, we must move forward

Edited October 25, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Nahm]

@OBEler

Again, speculation on words / text here idk but … ‘mental illness’, ‘a this could heal her’, ‘met and became the Gods’… it’s the thought activity which perpetuates the identifying as, from, by the experience. Psyche’s can be wonderful breaks, but the simple tools that stick or release identity deeply and for the long haul like the emotional scale might be missed. Certainly not meant in any belittling or minimizing way, but the key is the experience isn’t happening now, the thoughts and discord are.