Leo's Practical Guide To Enlightenment

[Viking]

@elias you are your stuff
SHIIIIIII

[Not a shaolin monk]

On 22/8/2017 at 2:25 PM, Leo Gura said:

Except notice that there isn't a "you" seeing it.

is this a koan like is not because i am not real that there is not an I seeing it but because i am nothing?. Thats what my experience tell me but i dont feel like the objects or phenomena are made of me but they happen somehow at the same place where i am but are not me

Edited August 24, 2017 by Not a shaolin monk

[Leo Gura]

@Not a shaolin monk There is no you!

"You" is a word which points to nothing.

[Wes Thoughts]

Hi everyone and @Leo Gura! First of all thank you so much for the excellent content Leo! Your videos have had a major positive impact on my life! 

I would like to share where I am on this journey and ask for some guidance to see if I am on the right path. I am very new to the practice of mindfulness meditation and self-inquiry. I have only been practicing these techniques for about 1 week now and I feel like I am not gaining any real traction or real deep acceptance of the no-self. I can agree and accept that all of my thoughts and inner talk are creating a false sense of "me" but I still deeply feel like the brain is responsible and producing all of these thoughts in the first place and I am just trying to change my mental relationship to them. I feel like all I am doing here is trying to create a detachment from my thoughts, emotions and perceptions that the brain is creating and I don't see how this will lead to anything except making me feel less attached to whatever I think, feel, see. Should I just trust that a deeper realization will happen if I get a real true sense and belief that I am not the voice in my head or the thoughts?

Also, when I hear these things on the forum and in your enlightenment videos about stuff not existing beyond what you can see (ex: the back of my computer screen doesn't exist because I can't see it) it is so far beyond my grasp that it makes me wonder if this is all bullshit anyway because my mind creates a very accurate concept of what there is back there from previous real experiences and I have proven to myself countless times that my concepts are really accurate by then verifying with direct experience that indeed there is a back of my computer screen when I look! This applies for most of the concepts I have created, they are usually very accurate and have been proven correct time and time again. If I think about it I have a concept for just about everything in reality and it is usually very accurate when I go to verify them with direct experience! Am I trying to jump too far ahead to grasp this concept right now or what?

Ok. Now that I explained where I am in my mind on this journey I would like to ask for guidance on my action plan for passing these obstacles and perhaps you can agree or straighten me out. I plan to continue mindfulness meditation for 1 hour each day followed by 1 hour of basic self inquiry just asking myself "who am I", with the goal of discovering who I am when I truly don't identify with my thoughts. I also plan on doing longer periods of the same techniques on the weekends along with the assistance of LSD occasionally. Does this sound like a good action plan? Thanks for reading and I appreciate any and all feedback!

[Aware]

@Not a shaolin monk

Ever thought of: JUST You sees?

There is but One. Although can be seem clouded when consciousness is poluted. 

All physical objects are Not you, but a temporary aspect of You.

All That is empty in nature is a result of You. You are full conscious of everything, That is Your true nature compared to physical and mental objects That are empty in nature. It Cannot love like You can, it cant have a relationship with You. They are but results of You. Therefore, You did not came from That which cannot have a relationship with You, which is empty in nature.

So, just only You sees and knows all and non knows You in complete. You are the beginning- middle and the end That has no cause.

There is but You, just You. The rest is but a cloud infront of an all pervading sun, You.

All lives in You, and You live in no one.

[MiracleMan]

9 hours ago, Wes Thoughts said:

Hi everyone and @Leo Gura! First of all thank you so much for the excellent content Leo! Your videos have had a major positive impact on my life! 

I would like to share where I am on this journey and ask for some guidance to see if I am on the right path. I am very new to the practice of mindfulness meditation and self-inquiry. I have only been practicing these techniques for about 1 week now and I feel like I am not gaining any real traction or real deep acceptance of the no-self. I can agree and accept that all of my thoughts and inner talk are creating a false sense of "me" but I still deeply feel like the brain is responsible and producing all of these thoughts in the first place and I am just trying to change my mental relationship to them. I feel like all I am doing here is trying to create a detachment from my thoughts, emotions and perceptions that the brain is creating and I don't see how this will lead to anything except making me feel less attached to whatever I think, feel, see. Should I just trust that a deeper realization will happen if I get a real true sense and belief that I am not the voice in my head or the thoughts?

Also, when I hear these things on the forum and in your enlightenment videos about stuff not existing beyond what you can see (ex: the back of my computer screen doesn't exist because I can't see it) it is so far beyond my grasp that it makes me wonder if this is all bullshit anyway because my mind creates a very accurate concept of what there is back there from previous real experiences and I have proven to myself countless times that my concepts are really accurate by then verifying with direct experience that indeed there is a back of my computer screen when I look! This applies for most of the concepts I have created, they are usually very accurate and have been proven correct time and time again. If I think about it I have a concept for just about everything in reality and it is usually very accurate when I go to verify them with direct experience! Am I trying to jump too far ahead to grasp this concept right now or what?

Ok. Now that I explained where I am in my mind on this journey I would like to ask for guidance on my action plan for passing these obstacles and perhaps you can agree or straighten me out. I plan to continue mindfulness meditation for 1 hour each day followed by 1 hour of basic self inquiry just asking myself "who am I", with the goal of discovering who I am when I truly don't identify with my thoughts. I also plan on doing longer periods of the same techniques on the weekends along with the assistance of LSD occasionally. Does this sound like a good action plan? Thanks for reading and I appreciate any and all feedback!

I think one of your questions is like this classic:  If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?!  

[Wes Thoughts]

@MiracleMan I honestly have been contemplating that question too and my answer is "I think it does but I don't know for sure". No one can know for sure. I guess that really is the same type of question as "does something really exist if no one is looking at it?" ... hmm.... I guess I don't know for sure...

[Leo Gura]

@Wes Thoughts Haha... how can your concepts be "very accurate" when you don't even know what you are or what reality is?

You believe in a bunch of groundless things like:

• Physical reality (it does not exist)
• Brains rendering consciousness (nope)
• That you are a human being (nope)
• That you are confined to your body (nope)
• That you are separate from other human beings (totally false)
• That you were born (nope)
• That you will die (nope)
• That reality is made up of matter and energy (nope)
• That existence is separate from non-existence (nope)
• That time and space are real (nope)
• etc.

All of those are patently false.

The problem is that you're very deep inside a conceptual matrix which you unconsciously absorbed from your culture without ever seriously questioning it. Breaking free of this paradigm will require enormous effort. Using your concepts to verify your concepts is part of the problem. That only begs the question.

You're not yet conscious of what concepts are. You're using them. But you don't realize what they are yet. Which is why you're struggling.

Keep practicing mindfulness and self-inquiry. It will take you months and years of consistent practice to really get some traction. This matrix is deeper than you ever imagined possible. Psychedelics can speed things along.

To put it very simply: everything you know about reality is wrong. You don't even know what a tree is. And yet, you feel like you've got it all figured out. That's the problem with ignorance. It cannot even imagine what it doesn't know.

[Wes Thoughts]

@Leo Gura Thank you for the response Leo. This list of beliefs seem so far out and crazy to me right now! I really hope I can come to see them as True!

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You believe in a bunch of groundless things like:

• Physical reality (it does not exist)
• Brains rendering consciousness (nope)
• That you are a human being (nope)
• That you are confined to your body (nope)
• That you are separate from other human beings (totally false)
• That you were born (nope)
• That you will die (nope)
• That reality is made up of matter and energy (nope)
• That existence is separate from non-existence (nope)
• That time and space are real (nope)
• etc.

All of those are patently false.

Can you explain what concepts are and what you mean by 

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You're not yet conscious of what concepts are. You're using them. But you don't realize what they are yet. Which is why you're struggling.

I think concepts are models of this physical reality I make in my head to help me interact with it and make predictions of my actions. Is that what they are? Am I using the right word for that? Ex: I have a concept of what will happen when I throw a ball, drive a car, look at the back of my computer screen and just about everything I do. Aren't concepts like these critical for interacting in this physical reality? Does my problem lie in that I don't understand the fundamental things you listed above therefore my concepts are reinforcing the illusion of these incorrect beliefs?

I just watched "A Rant Against Naive Realism"  again and that helps with my question. I think what I am referring to is more of a causal mechanical explanation. How are these not correct though when they can be repeated over and over again and produce the same result?

Edited August 25, 2017 by Wes Thoughts

[Truth Seekah]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:27 AM, Leo Gura said:

You'll have to drop the belief that you are a small finite body.

Well ur right, Leo.

The loss of object subject perception helps in experiencing infinity.

Douglas Harding's the headless way exercise really freaked me out.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Wes Thoughts See my video: Grasping The Illusory Nature Of Thought

A concept is a thought. You'll need to become very mindful of what thoughts are (in your direct experience) before you can proceed further in this work.

Note: it does not help to think about thoughts. You need to develop mindfulness/awareness over them. You have to step outside your thoughts, so to speak, dethroning them.

[Wes Thoughts]

@Leo Gura Thanks Leo. I think it would be extremely beneficial if you would explain what milestones we can look forward to on the path to enlightenment. I can accept that it may take years and years to get there and it would be much more appealing to the newbies like me if we knew there were benefits from the practice of mindfulness, meditation and self inquiry that we can expect to receive at certain points along the way. Thanks!

[Key Elements]

We're all one, the infinite awareness, and so when we talk to each other, we're only talking to ourselves. At least sometimes when we do that, we plant seeds into each other's minds that will grow later - hopefully. This boy did that...

( I do notice that if I'm the boy's mom, I wouldn't let him go out like that at such a young age and talk to strangers. Also, obviously, twinkies and those drinks are unhealthy. Other than that, it's beautiful. )

[Martin123]

1 hour ago, Key Elements said:

( I do notice that if I'm the boy's mom, I wouldn't let him go out like that at such a young age and talk to strangers. Also, obviously, twinkies and those drinks are unhealthy. Other than that, it's beautiful. )

I adore your honesty.

[Guest username]

I'm starting to get a much stronger sense that a panacea to all the traps on this path is just shutting up and keepin' on practicing.  Other than lacking a strong enough desire to stick to it, I don't see any problem with this straight forward approach.

The more I practice, there's this simultaneous deeper appreciation for the theory and sense the the theory is just useless nonsense that's still sort of nice to keep around in the back of my mind. There's this strange, deep utilization and grasping of the teachings and ignoring/ letting go of them. I don't know if that makes any sense since I'm explicitly contradicting myself.

In short: Would there be any issue with just meditating and self-inquiring and not spending more time refining my mental models, if I can handle it?

[Leo Gura]

@username Of course.

Although....

Without proper theory, you'll still get yourself lost. Even if you manage to sneak in an enlightenment or two.

This stuff is just that tricky.

There is a good reason why Zen students are also told to study the scriptures. It's not some quaint tradition. You're likely to get lost without guidance.

Then again, you're likely to get lost with guidance.

Either way, you're gonna get lost. Such is the nature of ignorance. It turns all guidance into further delusion.

[RossE]

@K-light--orb You're getting lost my friend. What you experienced is not the truth. It's not about going anywhere, being elsewhere. I hope clarity finds you some day.

[K-light--orb]

Explain what about my experience as not true and what motive does something or someone have to lie to me. Also, I know how this universe is. The only way time can work as past, present, and future is if space in it's totality was not all wrinkled and balled up. It works like past, present and future having no meaning because of the way time and space is about speed and direction of objects that are further and closer to another object.

Edited September 2, 2017 by K-light--orb

[K-light--orb]

There's no scipture in existence that can give you the wisdom of understanding anything because the gift of infinite questioning given by the creator would not be useful. If scriptures that were written that people read told the reader information or wisdom, it would be clear to all who read it which is not the case. Btw I can't be lost if "it's not about going anywhere, being elsewhere", whether you meant lost as in where I am or if you meant lost as in being unsure.

[Guest username]

On 8/30/2017 at 5:43 AM, Leo Gura said:

@username Of course.

Although....

Without proper theory, you'll still get yourself lost. Even if you manage to sneak in an enlightenment or two.

This stuff is just that tricky.

There is a good reason why Zen students are also told to study the scriptures. It's not some quaint tradition. You're likely to get lost without guidance.

Then again, you're likely to get lost with guidance.

Either way, you're gonna get lost. Such is the nature of ignorance. It turns all guidance into further delusion.

What are the traps of a 100% focus on practice approach? The common theme I have seen is that people suddenly think they've gone as far as there is to go, become susceptible to residual ego, and go on having all sorts of ideas of what the Truth is based on little glimpses and memories rather than maintaining focus on having a direct consciousness of the Truth.

Couldn't that simply be resolved by even more meditation and inquiry? I'm failing to see how pure meditation and inquiry itself would lead to you astray if you just keep going further.