Transcending the emotional system

[aetheroar]

This was to be a reply on another topic but seems suited for an individual discussion topic.

This is simply a translation of the direct experience of reality from the viewpoint of this form, and in no way does it contain spiritual truths. If you can use it as a guide to understand yourself, lovely.

Imagine the emotional system as a sort of AI machine that primes the body with hormones that correspond to whatever one believes the emotion means. The core of anger is being unable to escape from something which has been labeled as unsafe for survival. It is deeply rooted in fear and operates energetically in the lower chakras. The central chakra system is quite simple to understand in terms of lower (form), higher (formless) and the heart being the perfect centerpoint for unity. It can be true that after awakening and recognizing the deathless directly, the emotional response to a stimulus related to fear can be recognized and eventually dropped away completely.

The emotion is like solidity in the body...it’s connected to a dualistic mindset about the emotion which is in the form of a belief system in the mind. We identify the feeling as anger and that traps it in the corresponding chakra because of the belief, which is a very gross sensation and thusly it seems easy to hold onto.

The way out is to recognize the emotions are a complete non-duality, that they are simply energy moving in its various flavors, and maintain mindfulness during the experience so that the original mindset can be overwritten.

Anger is not bad, anger is not even anger. Anger is a term we use to describe a type of energy which the egoic self has labeled as bad because it fears the death of the form (the death of self). In this it creates resistance and solidity in the body. It is just a sensation.

With the self transcended, there’s no longer someone labeling things as good or bad, happy or sad. In this way, yes, the emotions will drop away, and a constant level of peace can be maintained.

This requires a deep understanding of the human experience and an unshakable understanding of Truth. If you maintain mindful presence at all times and are okay with every core belief you have being wrong, all your core beliefs will fall away and you’ll be left with peace.

[sara373]

what about sadness? Or frustration?

Edited October 22, 2021 by sara373

[Gianna]

Wow, this is amazing. Where did you accumulate this beautiful information? Any books you suggest? Thanks for the post!!!  

[Thought Art]

55 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

 

The emotion is like solidity in the body...it’s connected to a dualistic mindset about the emotion which is in the form of a belief system in the mind. We identify the feeling as anger and that traps it in the corresponding chakra because of the belief, which is a very gross sensation and thusly it seems easy to hold onto.

 

It reads like you are using circular reasoning here, as if the emotion is the result of the emotion. Or, you are using emotions to understand your emotions. Which ,is sort of true in my experience. 

Emotions are something prior to all intellectualizing. Even if you are enlightened in my opinion you will still feel emotions. If anything you will be more emotional. 

Enlightenment will not replace the need for experience and emotional mastery.

Do you mean more-so a dualistic mindset about the stimulus of the emotion?

"Imagine the emotional system as a sort of AI machine that primes the body with hormones that correspond to whatever one believes the emotion means. "

You also do that there. I think there is truth in this, but emotions are also prior to the meaning making mechanism imo usually its emotions that actually lead most peoples meaning making. So, you are all tied up in knots here. 

"The core of anger is being unable to escape from something which has been labeled as unsafe for survival."

This only seems like single facet of the core of anger imo. Anger is really complicated and nuanced. It's far more complicated and contextual. But, yeah I would say this is true for the most part I think. But, anger for example can be a driving force for change. It doesn't have to be the sense of being unable to escape. It can be a trigger, and injustice, someone with different values than you. 

"The way out is to recognize the emotions are a complete non-duality, that they are simply energy moving in its various flavors, and maintain mindfulness during the experience so that the original mindset can be overwritten."

I agree with this mostly. Emotions are energy and mindfulness isn't enough to fully overwritten emotions because they are distributed throughout the nervous system, tissues, transference, cognitive imprints etc. If people have stagnant Qi, smoke, don't breath properly, tense their muscles for years, have a weak vagus nerve, seek pleasure in their victim milking.. its tough.  You would need physical practices as well as mindfulness, books, talk therapy, psychedelics and cognitive behavioural techniques and more.

Anger is not bad, anger is not even anger. Anger is a term we use to describe a type of energy which the egoic self has labeled as bad because it fears the death of the form (the death of self). In this it creates resistance and solidity in the body. It is just a sensation.

Well, if you can feel something we generally call anger I think it's a good label. But, I agree anger isn't bad. It can be expressed in ways that are destructive or constructive. A big part of anger is fear of death, but that is also so grossly over simplified I don't even know if most people can use that.

"This requires a deep understanding of the human experience and an unshakable understanding of Truth. If you maintain mindful presence at all times and are okay with every core belief you have being wrong, all your core beliefs will fall away and you’ll be left with peace."

I like this idea.

 

Not trying to pick on you btw, just treating this as a way of learning for myself

Emotions are fundamental to pretty much all your actions, thoughts, behaviours, rationality etc. If enlightenment was being so above and beyond all emotions in your day to day life I think it would be a dysfunction.  Now, there are high states that I have experienced where fear and anger is impossible. But, not day to day life which you will not escape in this life.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Thought Art

[aetheroar]

@sara373  Sadness is the same: there is a belief system in the mind which has solidified the experience of the energy of sadness, attributed a negative viewpoint to it, and thusly creates aversion/suffering/resistance each time it arises. The sadness is not sad beyond what you believe about it.

Frustration: you have an expectation of what is supposed to happen (belief system) and what is currently happening goes against that belief system, so the feeling of frustration occurs and is then resisted.

Each emotion that has a negative belief associated with it will be resisted and will create the experience of suffering.

Sadness is not sad. Anger is not angry. Frustration is not frustrating. They are all energy guiding you to recognize that your aversions are what create your suffering, not the actual experience which triggered said emotions.

[aetheroar]

@Gianna This is all directly experienceable. Life is your guidebook on this. Watch very closely each time something arises.

[Gianna]

@aetheroar hehehe, perfect response. I should've known. I guess I just rather study it than investigate my own beliefs because I can't figure out what beliefs are causing me to feel angry. People say anger is a 'powerless' thing but to me anger feels empowering, haha. At least more so than other negative emotions. So you saying anger is a representation of feeling trapped/not being able to escape resonates with me deeply. Like that's exactly it for me I'm so glad you wrote that. Which is why I want to understand more of it. So I must be having 'trap-like' beliefs. Beliefs that I feel like I want to escape from? I'll have to do more internal investigation/contemplation on this one– no one can do it for me. haha. 

[aetheroar]

@Thought Art  Your thoughtful response is appreciated. Please know that the responses from my end may seem lacking...it's become difficult lately to navigate written conversation. Honestly still not sure why I'm here, haha!

The main point I'm trying to get across is:

Something happens in our past > we feel the emotion but don't navigate it because a safe container did not feel provided > we label it as bad and write it into a memory > this memory stays dormant until a similar thing happens in the future...

Now there's two ways we could go here. If one is not maintaining right view, then > belief system triggers memory and emotion at the same time, yet it stays subconscious and we go with the conditioned response, which is to be averted to the feeling and thusly > suffering.

The other option, if right view is maintained > belief system triggers memory and emotion at the same time, one is conscious of it, we recognize the perfection of the experience rather than being averted to it > the emotion is felt without being something bad > we have successfully dropped the aversion. Now the next time it occurs, there is no aversion and peace is maintained. 

Life is giving you these opportunities ALL THE TIME. The whole path is contained within and as itself through what appears. If one does this mindful work at all times, the karmic windings of aversions fall away with zero effort as the path walks itself.

The transcendence of the emotional system simply means accepting all of them as one complete set, not being averted OR  attracted to any of them individually, as they are not individual and should not be treated as such. It does not mean that what was previously experienced as sadness is not experienced anymore, just that it's seen as just another sensation, no better or worse than joy. In this, we can release all emotionality to the plane of existence without identifying with them, leaving us in a place where bliss can flower even within "sadness".

[aetheroar]

@Gianna You seem to have a great understanding of this already. Mindfulness in those moments is so deeply important. While it's important to some extent to understand the original beliefs and recognize the unreality of them, the real work comes with the present insight into the truth of the moment, as seeing the perfection and recognizing Divinity automatically rewrites the old beliefs.

Think of it this way...the beliefs never represent the absolute truth of the moment. If you are feeling something that you want to run away from, it's an opportunity to release the conditioned responses into the perfection of the moment and form brand new understandings to unwrite these old ones. These brand new understandings are then recognized as being completely tailored to the exact experience we had, so we can't carry them away with us. Eventually, we show up every moment fully present, which means we have enough trust in our own ability to gather insight IN THE MOMENT. All of the information we need to navigate the moment is available in the moment, and we have no need to carry anything in or out (no past or future influence). This is the culmination of the path, the unbinding of karmic windings. Attractions and aversions can all be released...if you think a certain way about something, that thought is never equal to that thing - that thing can never be that thought. With this insight, we can allow ourselves to actually BE the sensations, treating them all as our equal, naturally being compassionate towards them all because they are we. If we carry nothing into the moment, the moment is always an opportunity to sink deeper into Divine Love, that which we always have been, that which is the connective emptiness between all apparent form.

[Batman]

Emotions are pathways to relate the self to environment and stimuli. They are manipulations, and they always relate to the self.

I don't think we are seeing eye to eye regarding anger. Anger is an emotion which is generated when the self is hurt or feels powerless. The anger creates the motivation to act in ways that display power or capability for power (e.g. destroying an object, yelling, acting violently against the other).

Because the thought that is the foundation for the emotion is powerlessness, or feelings of vulnerability and hurt, which are all "negatively" charged and create an adversarial relationship with the other/stimuli, anger is a rather negative emotion. This is not to say that anger should be repressed. Do not repress emotions. Allow your self to feel them and ask your self why you generated this particular response. However, feeling the emotion is distinct from acting it out in some destructive way. It is better to express the hurt one feels, cry, or allow your self to feel vulnerable or weak.

[Raptorsin7]

@aetheroar Great post man.

Do you have any thoughts on the relationship between realizing peace and physical changes to our body and health?

I'm really starting to appreciate how much suffering comes from aversion of subtle feelings of the body, and as I start to accept and reintegrate all these sensations I can feel tremendous physical pressure in my head and face. It's like I have a deep tissue massage going on in the inside of my skull, and the more I relax the more I can let go of the deep tension of the head.

Have you experienced anything like what I described above? And have you had any dramatic changes in your health/body since finding peace.

Thanks

[aetheroar]

@Batman

The reason we don’t see eye-to-eye on anger is because anger is a no-thing and neither my eye nor your eye can see it directly. We can all have our own belief systems on what causes anger because anger is not something separate but a manifestation of energy within our own being.

I am absolutely not advocating the repression of emotions, but there a way out of all discomfort in them by recognizing their arising as a manifestation of existence which is fully integrated with existence and perfection. The attribution of negativity to an emotional state is due to the ego having formed a belief about something which doesn’t fit in a belief. This is where all belief systems come from and why all belief systems are set up for failure - they do not accurately represent reality.

It’s not an easy task by any means to drop all belief systems (positive and negative), but it is absolutely attainable through insight to arrive in a state of mind free of negative experiences.

Yes, full transcendence of the emotional system can potentially lead to physical death IF one is not maintaining mindfulness, but at the point of full transcendence of the self, the continuation of life in the body isn’t even relevant anymore.

If it is divine will to die at gunpoint for trying to compassionately speak to a shooter, this is precisely what will happen and there’s no negative thing within that. They deserve to be loved in their most brutal moments. Unconditional love will always trump deeply rooted fear in the face of adversity.

[Ascent X]

I agree and disagree to a large extent.

 

To transcend Emotions:

Okay, become an emotionless AI then. Stop being human.

 

What is this autism, not “enlightened” at all.

 

Long as you are in a human body, you cannot “transcend” emotions, you must integrate and accept them with the whole of who you are, not resist or deny them. That’s the whole not identifying with or giving any label of bad or good.

Emotions are your guidance system to your personal truth and authenticity, and aids in your expansion and gaining awareness when you are conscious and in tune with them.

Every negative emotional trigger is a chance to learn something new and heal something within yourself. All emotions have an important message to share.

 

Matter of fact, no point to living if you want to “transcend” emotion. Go return to formless source.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Ascent X
Typo

[aetheroar]

@Raptorsin7 Mmm yes, there is a huge shift physiologically in transcendence...

Notice that all of sensation occurs where emptiness meets form, not in the form itself. The whole body is seen as solid before awakening, as the ideas of "self" have manifested as solidity in the experience. Once the form is recognized as just a bunch of elemental light building on each other and the true ground of being is recognized and abided in, one becomes more attuned to emptiness. As such, the space is being recognized more thoroughly. This is especially true in the head, where most of us have been residing in the sense of self. It's possible at deep levels of surrender that the head vanishes from experience completely...you can literally feel like you're a dot floating in empty space. Yoga is incredibly important to reconnect to this feeling of spaciousness. Kundalini is the same thing, it's spaciousness clearing out solidity (a belief in something unchanging). Every belief we have is stored somewhere in the body as energy charged towards or against a certain type of sensation. We are just flowers that decided to move towards a specific type of light because we thought the sun wasn't exactly "it". The more we can deepen into the feeling rather than the conceptualizing/thinking, the more solidity falls away. Eventually the container for awareness falls away and the awareness fills in the space...like you "leaked out" or "flipped inside out" and now the sense of self resides everywhere, which in turn means it's nowhere.

[aetheroar]

@Ascent X  Again, transcendence does not mean that emotions go away, it means you have become them completely, accept them fully, and recognize their non-dual nature. This releases one from their desires and aversions, which means they are no longer being controlled by their conditioning.

The "but that's just being human" view is the ego trying to stay in the drivers seat. We are not human, and the formless realm awaits your presence every moment you believe it otherwise. We don't lose the ability to live by transcending our fears, we lost that when we carried our conditionings into the present moment.

I fully agree that every "negative" experience has a lesson, but that lesson is ALWAYS to release our aversion to it. This doesn't mean you have to put yourself in "negative" situations, it just means that "negative" situations don't make you suffer anymore. Once this is realized fully, the emotional system ceases to cause more than a passing sensation.

[Ascent X]

25 minutes ago, aetheroar said:

@Ascent X  Again, transcendence does not mean that emotions go away, it means you have become them completely, accept them fully, and recognize their non-dual nature. This releases one from their desires and aversions, which means they are no longer being controlled by their conditioning.

The "but that's just being human" view is the ego trying to stay in the drivers seat. We are not human, and the formless realm awaits your presence every moment you believe it otherwise. We don't lose the ability to live by transcending our fears, we lost that when we carried our conditionings into the present moment.

I fully agree that every "negative" experience has a lesson, but that lesson is ALWAYS to release our aversion to it. This doesn't mean you have to put yourself in "negative" situations, it just means that "negative" situations don't make you suffer anymore. Once this is realized fully, the emotional system ceases to cause more than a passing sensation.

I agree with your concept of transcendence there

What Im talking about are the many people in the “enlightenment community”, who want to “transcend”, and do Away with emotions all together. The talking points and language can conflate 

You are also just as much a human as everything else, we are here to live not to transcend life.

Theres a reason source broke out of formless nothingness to experience.

[Thought Art]

 What is the non-dual nature of emotions?

Can someone explain how this realization works?

I like the paradox there

[aetheroar]

@Ascent X  There definitely seems to be a split in the intellectual understanding of transcendence in the community. If something is within the whole, it can not be removed, only accepted to the point of complete embodiment. Once something is fully embodied, the "thing" is no longer separate, so there's nothing separating "you" from "it" and the need to intellectually understand becomes irrelevant because you ARE it.

[aetheroar]

@Thought Art Haha, what was meant here is that all emotions, from anger, fear, sadness, joy, etc, are all part of a spectrum and are in themselves no-things. Each one "thing" that can be pointed to, emotions included, came from the complete whole and can not be understood individually. If something can not be understood individually because it is part of a spectrum, the ground for a conditioned response falls away. The reason here is that conditioned responses require something to be viewed as separate/permanent, otherwise what is even there to be averted or attracted to?

Emotions can be understood as lightwaves within the body caused by a negative or positive charge (aversion or attraction) towards a perceived separate form of light, but both the perceived separate, the body, and the charge are a unified no-thing and fall away the moment the conditioned resistance (to aversion) or attachment (to attraction) is embodied without creating a future based "next step" of "what to do about it". This occurs automatically once the no-thing is realized as not being separate.

Edited October 22, 2021 by aetheroar
humaning

[sara373]

15 hours ago, aetheroar said:

@sara373  Sadness is the same: there is a belief system in the mind which has solidified the experience of the energy of sadness, attributed a negative viewpoint to it, and thusly creates aversion/suffering/resistance each time it arises. The sadness is not sad beyond what you believe about it.

Frustration: you have an expectation of what is supposed to happen (belief system) and what is currently happening goes against that belief system, so the feeling of frustration occurs and is then resisted.

Each emotion that has a negative belief associated with it will be resisted and will create the experience of suffering.

Sadness is not sad. Anger is not angry. Frustration is not frustrating. They are all energy guiding you to recognize that your aversions are what create your suffering, not the actual experience which triggered said emotions.

thanks for breaking it down for me. I would just like to know, that if not aversion/resistence and having a negative viewpoint or belief system about sadness or the frustration, you are supposed to accept it? Experiencing it totally and? What about the actual experience or situation which triggered said emotions?