Club report - and advice needed...

[SamC]

This Is both meant for reflection, a way to seek advice and to help people who are on a similar pick up journy as I am.

I went with 2 wingman for the first time ever to a club. Both where experienced and had very high laycounts. 1 of them had 100 + the other 60 +. My first reaction when I got into the club was to start approaching and I did.. and it went kinda well, especially with one girl. Here I quickly fucked up big time though. I tried to escalate by kissing her way to early. We only talked and bounced around for like 15 min without prioir physical escalation. Rockie mistake I know. Super fucking stupied I know, but suffering is the best teacher I guess. It's really embarrassing to share this honestly... I was super naive and foolish, enough tension hadn't been built up. I feel like the biggest idiot alive.

Here is what I don't understand though. The guys I went out with said to wait til like 1 am to approach. In the beginning I didn't know that, so I didn't do that. Here comes the question. Are they correct? Should you do it in the beginning or later? Why? In the beginning it was atleast for me wayyyyy easier to approach and make the girls invested and then the more crowded it got, the harder and non reactive the girls became.

Second question. What the fuck should you talk about when you approach them in the club?  Like, A, you can barely hear them and B they just bounce around and get distracted so easily. What should you say to grasp their attention. Fuck man Game is haaard.

Overall experience and conclusion:

It's a huge difference to go out with wings. They tried to nudge me in the right direction. It was really good. I fucking hate clubs though!? it's loud, you can't hear shit and you hear weird random sounds all the time. It's really fun to meet a lot of girls though. It makes me motivated. In the beginning especially, I felt like a king. Like they got invested very easily. I honestly think that I benefit more in an environment where I can communicate more freely and where there is less stuff going on. Don't move to fast is the lesson for today.

Any thoughts or advice that you have to fellow newbie? Thanks. @Leo Gura

 

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, SamC said:

My first reaction when I got into the club was to start approaching and I did.. and it went kinda well, especially with one girl.

Great!

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Here I quickly fucked up big time though. I tried to escalate by kissing her way to early. We only talked and bounced around for like 15 min without prioir physical escalation. Rockie mistake I know. Super fucking stupied I know, but suffering is the best teacher I guess. It's really embarrassing to share this honestly... I was super naive and foolish, enough tension hadn't been built up. I feel like the biggest idiot alive.

In a club kissing a girl within 15 mins is not too early. Dude, you can pull a girl in 15 mins. You can kiss a girl within a minute or two if she's in the right mood.

The problem is not that you did it too early, the problem is that you didn't escalate up the kino ladder properly. Before you kiss her, you should physically escalate in other smaller ways so that she is not blindsided by the kiss. Usually before you kiss her you gotta have your hands all over her body. Physically escalating over her body is more important than kissing. And you need to learn to start doing it immediately upon opening. Especially in a club.

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The guys I went out with said to wait til like 1 am to approach. In the beginning I didn't know that, so I didn't do that. Here comes the question. Are they correct? Should you do it in the beginning or later? Why? In the beginning it was atleast for me wayyyyy easier to approach and make the girls invested and then the more crowded it got, the harder and non reactive the girls became.

That's silly. You approach as soon as you see a girl you like. Especially when you are just starting your training. Your job should be to maximize the number of girls you open and the time you spend talking to them.

You need warm up sets to get in the flow and build up your state.

And a lot of times you can pull a girl pretty early in the night. You don't have to wait till the end of the night to pull.

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Second question. What the fuck should you talk about when you approach them in the club?  Like, A, you can barely hear them and B they just bounce around and get distracted so easily. What should you say to grasp their attention. Fuck man Game is haaard.

If it's extremely loud and crowded, you must rely much more on physical game and strong eye contact. Don't try to have a logical substantive conversation.

You basically talk about herself and yourself. And you riff variations on that. You flirt.

Watch some in-field footage to get an idea of what guys talk about.

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Overall experience and conclusion:

It's a huge difference to go out with wings. They tried to nudge me in the right direction. It was really good. I fucking hate clubs though!? it's loud, you can't hear shit and you hear weird random sounds all the time. It's really fun to meet a lot of girls though. It makes me motivated. In the beginning especially, I felt like a king. Like they got invested very easily. I honestly think that I benefit more in an environment where I can communicate more freely and where there is less stuff going on. Don't move to fast is the lesson for today.

Any thoughts or advice that you have to fellow newbie? Thanks. @Leo Gura

The advice is: it takes 100s and 1000s of approaches to get good. Your first 500 approaches will suck. Just do the best you can and don't judge yourself. Approach as much as you can and take risks. Learn by failing.

[SamC]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Great!

In a club kissing a girl within 15 mins is not too early. Dude, you can pull a girl in 15 mins. You can kiss a girl within a minute or two if she's in the right mood.

The problem is not that you did it too early, the problem is that you didn't escalate up the kino ladder properly. Before you kiss her, you should physically escalate in other smaller ways so that she is not blindsided by the kiss. Usually before you kiss her you gotta have your hands all over her body. Physically escalating over her body is more important than kissing. And you need to learn to start doing it immediately upon opening. Especially in a club.

That's silly. You approach as soon as you see a girl you like. Especially when you are just starting your training. Your job should be to maximize the number of girls you open and the time you spend talking to them.

You need warm up sets to get in the flow and build up your state.

And a lot of times you can pull a girl pretty early in the night. You don't have to wait till the end of the night to pull.

If it's extremely loud and crowded, you must rely much more on physical game and strong eye contact. Don't try to have a logical substantive conversation.

You basically talk about herself and yourself. And you riff variations on that. You flirt.

Watch some in-field footage to get an idea of what guys talk about.

The advice is: it takes 100s and 1000s of approaches to get good. Your first 500 approaches will suck. Just do the best you can and don't judge yourself. Approach as much as you can and take risks. Learn by failing.

@Leo Gura This means so much Leo! Thank you! What you gave me right there is exacly what I needed, propor expectations. It kinda felt like a total failure, not because it wasn't a useful experience - but because it felt like my result was unusual and bad for starting out. Thank you - this was gold.

 

[Lyubov]

You sound really in your head still. Return to your body and enjoy the club and nightlife. If you hate clubs and are there just to practice game it usually shows through. Continue practicing and being practical, it’s fine to approach a bunch and there are lessons to be learned there for sure. I would look at sort of deeper, inner stuff that could just be fudging and tainting your whole vibe though. Right now you probably give off that sort of “anxious but making an effort” vibe. It’s okay and some girls won’t mind that if they think you are cute or feeling you. Try to enjoy yourself and try to enjoy clubs. If you are having fun and feel in the right place and enjoy nightlife it will give you a much better foundation for approaching. It sounds like you are in the phase where it still feels like work rather than this sort of seamless feel where you are having fun and just naturally talking to women because that’s what men do at clubs. Focus on both the practical but more importantly your beliefs and feelings about clubs and nightlife. You have to really enjoy nightlife if you want this experience to be enjoyable for you and that can really go a long way in attracting women at clubs. 

[Leo Gura]

@SamC Watch Mike's in-field videos:

https://www.pickupalpha.com/video/

This is the most realistic presentation of how night game and club game works.

[aurum]

3 hours ago, SamC said:

Here I quickly fucked up big time though. I tried to escalate by kissing her way to early. We only talked and bounced around for like 15 min without prioir physical escalation. Rockie mistake I know. Super fucking stupied I know, but suffering is the best teacher I guess. It's really embarrassing to share this honestly... I was super naive and foolish, enough tension hadn't been built up. I feel like the biggest idiot alive.

“Too early” can be very subjective.

It’s not like there’s a rule that you can only kiss a girl after X amount of time. Especially at a nightclub.

More than likely what happened was your timing was just off. You probably went for it out of nowhere and came off as uncalibrated to the situation.

These mistakes are how you learn. Nothing has gone wrong, this is the process.

3 hours ago, SamC said:

Here is what I don't understand though. The guys I went out with said to wait til like 1 am to approach. In the beginning I didn't know that, so I didn't do that. Here comes the question. Are they correct? Should you do it in the beginning or later? Why? In the beginning it was atleast for me wayyyyy easier to approach and make the girls invested and then the more crowded it got, the harder and non reactive the girls became.

 

1am??

That makes no sense.

So if you get there at 12am, you’re just going to sit there in the corner by yourself, not talking to anyone for a whole hour? Meanwhile, you’re getting more and more in your head every minute that goes by. And then some magic flip is going to switch at 1am and you’ll be super social? Nah.

Talk about awkward.

Unless you’re already with a group of friends and having fun, you need to be talking to people as much as possible. Pickup at a night club is like swimming. If you stop being social (swimming), you drown and die.

3 hours ago, SamC said:

Second question. What the fuck should you talk about when you approach them in the club?  Like, A, you can barely hear them and B they just bounce around and get distracted so easily. What should you say to grasp their attention. Fuck man Game is haaard.

You talk bullshit.

Substance matters basically zero. It just has to be fun.

3 hours ago, SamC said:

It's a huge difference to go out with wings. They tried to nudge me in the right direction. It was really good. I fucking hate clubs though!? it's loud, you can't hear shit and you hear weird random sounds all the time. It's really fun to meet a lot of girls though. It makes me motivated. In the beginning especially, I felt like a king. Like they got invested very easily. I honestly think that I benefit more in an environment where I can communicate more freely and where there is less stuff going on. Don't move to fast is the lesson for today.

 

I strongly dislike clubs as well, but you can still have a fun time if you choose to make it fun. And since they are the ideal environment in many ways for learning, you kind of just have to do it.

I would say your biggest lesson is not to not move as fast. It’s to learn how to read when it’s appropriate to kiss or not. That could be 30 seconds in, or it could be 30 minutes or 30 hours or never.

What are the green lights that let you know a girl is open for a kiss? That’s a better question.

[Gili Trawangan]

5 hours ago, SamC said:

I fucking hate clubs though!? it's loud, you can't hear shit and you hear weird random sounds all the time. It's really fun to meet a lot of girls though. It makes me motivated. In the beginning especially, I felt like a king. Like they got invested very easily. I honestly think that I benefit more in an environment where I can communicate more freely and where there is less stuff going on.

Good on you for taking action, well done.

However, from what you say here I can't help but think that you might be more suited for daygame. I also absolutely hate clubs and, instead of adapting my whole personality to that setting, I just went straight into daygame because it's more suited to my personality and to my strengths. I got really good within six months, and so can you.

Just something for you to consider, if you think clubs is your best bet right now, keep it up! Any action-taking is a good move.

[SamC]

4 hours ago, Lyubov said:

You sound really in your head still. Return to your body and enjoy the club and nightlife. If you hate clubs and are there just to practice game it usually shows through. Continue practicing and being practical, it’s fine to approach a bunch and there are lessons to be learned there for sure. I would look at sort of deeper, inner stuff that could just be fudging and tainting your whole vibe though. Right now you probably give off that sort of “anxious but making an effort” vibe. It’s okay and some girls won’t mind that if they think you are cute or feeling you. Try to enjoy yourself and try to enjoy clubs. If you are having fun and feel in the right place and enjoy nightlife it will give you a much better foundation for approaching. It sounds like you are in the phase where it still feels like work rather than this sort of seamless feel where you are having fun and just naturally talking to women because that’s what men do at clubs. Focus on both the practical but more importantly your beliefs and feelings about clubs and nightlife. You have to really enjoy nightlife if you want this experience to be enjoyable for you and that can really go a long way in attracting women at clubs. 

Yeah I am or was, eventhough I let more loose after a while. I go into this 100% Sober aswell so it's hard, but I will definitely work on this. I actually believe I can become really good at this, if I get more comfortable. I am generally good at " letting lose" in other social contexts.

It's so true what you're saying. If you really enjoy it becomes like a mirror and people see that and want to join. The same thing can be said about other contexts aswell.  Energy never lie.. in this case it worked agaisnt me, my goal should be to work with the energy.

How do you reccomend going about doing this? @Lyubov

Edited October 21, 2021 by SamC

[SamC]

 

2 hours ago, aurum said:

More than likely what happened was your timing was just off. You probably went for it out of nowhere and came off as uncalibrated to the situation.

Yeah exactly, that's what happened.

2 hours ago, aurum said:

What are the green lights that let you know a girl is open for a kiss? That’s a better question.

Yeah that's a much better question.  The thing is that I thought It would be so casual becuase it was in a club that you could just go for it. I always hear my friends say, who I made out with her, and her and my neighbors fucking dog  you get the point. I basically thought it wasn't that big of a deal and wasn't on the look out for those clear yes kiss me cues, which is stupied becuase it's painfully obvious that you should. I need to learn the social context better + learn to look out for the cues.

I know I can Google or YouTube search this but do you have any good video that explains this?@aurum

 

[SamC]

54 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

Good on you for taking action, well done.

However, from what you say here I can't help but think that you might be more suited for daygame. I also absolutely hate clubs and, instead of adapting my whole personality to that setting, I just went straight into daygame because it's more suited to my personality and to my strengths. I got really good within six months, and so can you.

Just something for you to consider, if you think clubs is your best bet right now, keep it up! Any action-taking is a good move.

Thanks man, I appreciate it. Yeah I tried daygame a bit before and I like it more, but it's pretty hard to find girls and it is even harder to muster up the courage to approach.

How did you move past these obstacles? Maybe I still can do a lot of daygame but I just don't see the opportunities. Wingman in the day maybe is a good strategy, never tried that before.@Gili Trawangan

[SamC]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@SamC Watch Mike's in-field videos:

https://www.pickupalpha.com/video/

This is the most realistic presentation of how night game and club game works.

Thanks Leo!? @Leo Gura

Also, any news on when the how to get laid series comes out?  that will be a Game changer ( game pun intended).

[Leo Gura]

Day game is only effective in certain cities and areas. There usually just aren't enough girls out during the day to make it effective for building your skill.

Night game is what you need to build skill.

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, SamC said:

Also, any news on when the how to get laid series comes out?  that will be a Game changer ( game pun intended).

Not sure. Working in it.

[Gili Trawangan]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Day game is only effective in certain cities and areas.

This is partly true. I would say that volume is the only issue, and even then you can always do it in shopping centres where there's more people, it doesn't always need to take place on the streets where pedestrian traffic is high. I've done it in cities with as little as 100,000 inhabitants, though that's certainly not ideal.

55 minutes ago, SamC said:

Thanks man, I appreciate it. Yeah I tried daygame a bit before and I like it more, but it's pretty hard to find girls and it is even harder to muster up the courage to approach.

Ok, I looked at your location and it seems that you are in a very small place, with few inhabitants, so that can be a challenge. But you do live near Stockholm, which is supposed to be a great place for daygame - though I personally have never been there. If you like it more, then do take it into consideration though.

58 minutes ago, SamC said:

How did you move past these obstacles?

I brute forced my way through approach anxiety, it was emotionally challenging but an amazing process with lots of growth. I went through it by myself, no wings, but had the advantage of being on the move at the time, so I was able to practice in many different cities around the world. It provided the opportunity of being exposed to all kinds of women, from very different cultures.

I'm certainly biased towards daygame, just as Leo is towards night game. I would suggest that you take every piece of advice with a grain of salt, as everyone is coming at this from their own life experience. Do what feels right for you, there is certainly more than one path.

I tend to favour daygame because I think the skills needed for daygame translate better in the long-term. You need to develop a highly calibrated level of game, no flashy stuff, no alcohol, just you and the girl. So it's a set of skills that you can keep for life, whereas high energy flashy night game is something you only do in your twenties, most likely. When you grow out of night clubs, as you eventually must, you still need to have game, and you still need to be able to approach. That's the way I see it, anyway.

[SamC]

 

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Ok, I looked at your location and it seems that you are in a very small place, with few inhabitants, so that can be a challenge. But you do live near Stockholm, which is supposed to be a great place for daygame - though I personally have never been there. If you like it more, then do take it into consideration though.

@Gili Trawangan I am actually really privilaged in this regard. I have access to an ampartment in the central parts of Stockholm every weekend. My location that I have on here is our summer house that my family goes to every weekend. I have lived there during Corona so that's why I put that as my location. If I come in at stockholm university I will also get to live here alone during my university years.

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I brute forced my way through approach anxiety, it was emotionally challenging but an amazing process with lots of growth. I went through it by myself, no wings, but had the advantage of being on the move at the time, so I was able to practice in many different cities around the world. It provided the opportunity of being exposed to all kinds of women, from very different cultures.

That's a warrior like mentality. I have tried doing daygame In Stockholm but I just went around for 2 hours being scared approaching. Respect man.

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I'm certainly biased towards daygame, just as Leo is towards night game. I would suggest that you take every piece of advice with a grain of salt, as everyone is coming at this from their own life experience. Do what feels right for you, there is certainly more than one path.

Yeah this is key. My intuition tells me a combo is the best. One thing that I suck at is physical escalation which is easiest to practice during night game, yet on the other hand, during daygame I have a higher chance landing someone that is compatible with me and for that I need the ability to talk to girls in that context.

Thanks man.

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I tend to favour daygame because I think the skills needed for daygame translate better in the long-term. You need to develop a highly calibrated level of game, no flashy stuff, no alcohol, just you and the girl. So it's a set of skills that you can keep for life, whereas high energy flashy night game is something you only do in your twenties, most likely. When you grow out of night clubs, as you eventually must, you still need to have game, and you still need to be able to approach. That's the way I see it, anyway.

Yeah, thanks for bringing awarness fo this. I need to think long term.

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by SamC

[aurum]

11 hours ago, SamC said:

Yeah that's a much better question.  The thing is that I thought It would be so casual becuase it was in a club that you could just go for it. I always hear my friends say, who I made out with her, and her and my neighbors fucking dog  you get the point. I basically thought it wasn't that big of a deal and wasn't on the look out for those clear yes kiss me cues, which is stupied becuase it's painfully obvious that you should. I need to learn the social context better + learn to look out for the cues.

Yeah it’s very nuanced. You can get away with all sorts of crazy behavior in a night club. So pua teachers want to teach you that and show you that you’re not limited. And that you can bend social norms in your favor.

At the same time, there’s always still social cues and calibration that is going on.

So it’s not so much that you abandon all social rules in a night club. It’s more like you enter a new reality with much different rules.

Anyway, there’s no YT video or anything like that I’d recommend. You know what it looks like when a girl is interested. You have a functioning brain that has evolved over thousands of years to read social cues. It’s very, very good at this. You just have to listen to your own cues.

And if you really feel like you don’t know, maybe just google “pua IOIs (indicators of interest)”. But any list you will find online will be very limited and not robust enough for the complexity and nuance of real life socializing.

[SamC]

 

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Anyway, there’s no YT video or anything like that I’d recommend. You know what it looks like when a girl is interested. You have a functioning brain that has evolved over thousands of years to read social cues. It’s very, very good at this. You just have to listen to your own cues.

@aurum I really like this approach, becuase it's a very intuitive and in the moment way of going about it. The only thing I see as an obstacle to this is that I have very little experience with woman and because of that I struggle to relate to them and understand them which makes it hard for me calibrate to them intuitively. The male sexuality is so different compared to how men get attracted. It's still a mystery for me how it all works, although I have more understanding of it now then before

Female sexuality and attraction is based on something else and it's very subtle. What just popped In my head is that I think I approach this the the wrong way. I intellectualize.. I don't go with the flow and follow my intuition. I should do that more. Maybe the solution  ( intelectualisation) is the problem in this case. What do you think about this?

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And if you really feel like you don’t know, maybe just google “pua IOIs (indicators of interest)”. But any list you will find online will be very limited and not robust enough for the complexity and nuance of real life socializing.

Yeah awsome. I'll do that; just to get a better hunch of what my subconscious mind should look for.