Stage Orange vs Stage Green: Did Dave Chappelle go to far?

[Arcangelo]

Oh no I am pro Dave Chappelle

I am pro freedom of speech. The hate is in the one who listens.

Hate speech is subjective, moderation is necessary though.

It's all about collective ego at the end.

 

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

Oh no I am pro Dave Chappelle

I am pro freedom of speech. The hate is in the one who listens.

Hate speech is subjective, moderation is necessary though.

It's all about collective ego at the end.

 

There are definitely lines that you can cross though, for example punching down is always going to looked as basically bullying. If you had a rich white person making fun of poor black people i would understand that getting a public outcry, but even within that theres nuance, the rich white person could be making fun of rich white people that do that for example. So when you get into comedy it becomes very subjective and nuanced. The question with Chappelle is, was he punching down and is he bullying trans people as oppose to commenting on society and how different groups are treated. I think its a bit of a strawman to say that hes just bashing trans people, that doesnt mean hes right but its painting the conflict in the wrong way imo. 

What would be interesting is for him to have a conversation with a trans person who thinks he was wrong, in some kind of podcast format and just hash out each sides points

[Raze]

UPDATE: Dave Chappelle has responded

TITLE:  Dave Chappelle - Stunted | Addressing the controversy

 

[Opo]

Dave hurt our mommy. ???

I think we need to watch this video to understand what she means. 

I don't remember it that well. 

 

[Tanz]

Many comedians talk about intent, I think in Daves case he's earned enough respect from people that are respected in the public to say he's not malicious.  Jon Stewart is universally respected by those on the left and right. His stand for the 911 first responders is heartfelt and sad that someone like him had to speak up for the issue to be taken care of
Here's a clip with Kyle talking about what Jon said.
https://youtu.be/_2O-SNxN3Ts

There's actually an interesting show out there now called Y The last Man

In this world, all the men die except one and women are running around doing all the things men do. They even have a trans actor that has transitioned and is taking testosterone.  In this world, you have the man-hating feminist, the man-loving conservative, women in the middle, women who were incarcerated and act more civilized than women.  In this world people like Dave Chapelle died along with every other men that suppress minorities but the problems that existed when they were alive still exist, in fact even more so.
There's a character in the show that is a parody to Meghan Mccain that resembles the same traits that many people see as unbearable but within her views on life resides a person that loves family, people and she risk her life to be there for a woman who's her opposite because this woman bears a child within her.  Her old fashion ways of preserving the old have given her this strength and she makes it her personal crusade to preserve humanity. This makes her ironically the most progressive person in the show because shes the only one thinking about the future of the human race while mostly everyone else is trying to survive.  

There is a universal place for everyone in this world including assholes, murderers, rapist.  Things exist because they need to exist.  

[Tanz]

@Opo

The person that created the protest movement needs to do some self-reflection before attacking someone for hate speech as her hate speech on twitter is far worst than anything Dave Chappelle said.  She pretty much attacked Gays, Asians, and Latino's

Edited October 29, 2021 by Tanz

[Opo]

2 hours ago, Tanz said:

The person that created the protest movement needs to do some self-reflection before attacking someone for hate speech as her hate speech on twitter is far worst than anything Dave Chappelle said.  She pretty much attacked Gays, Asians, and Latino's

All those tweets were from 10 years ago. I doubt she still believes it. People can change a lot in that time. 

Omg Jimmy is so retarded. 

At beginning he said just dont watch it if you don't like it and at 6:13 he wants to cancel her... 

[Tanz]

2 hours ago, Opo said:

All those tweets were from 10 years ago. I doubt she still believes it. People can change a lot in that time. 

Omg Jimmy is so retarded. 

At beginning he said just dont watch it if you don't like it and at 6:13 he wants to cancel her... 

Fair enough, if she has evolved that much then she should give other people time to change then.  Has she apologized for such statements ever?  I did some research and she has been sort of like a public figure.  Lets say she has changed, does she deserve not to be canceled as much as anyone else. Imagine if netflix looked back on her tweets in the past and chose not to hire her because of it.  

 
It is a fair point, people can either watch it or not.  Even boycott and not subscribe to Netflix completely.  

[Opo]

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

she should give other people time to change then. 

Of course. 

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

Has she apologized for such statements ever?  

I don't even know who is she or what she wants. 

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

Lets say she has changed, does she deserve not to be canceled as much as anyone else. Imagine if netflix looked back on her tweets in the past and chose not to hire her because of it.  

I'm not a big fan of canceling. 

Rehabilitation is better. 

1 hour ago, Tanz said:

It is a fair point, people can either watch it or not.  Even boycott and not subscribe to Netflix completely.  

I don't think it will but let's say Dave's special incites harassment towards trans people. 

In that scenario them not watching it won't make a difference. 

[Consept]

7 hours ago, Opo said:

All those tweets were from 10 years ago. I doubt she still believes it. People can change a lot in that time. 

But here lies the hypocrisy, i agree with you in that shes probably changed in that time although its hard to say for definite, but if you look at recent tweet scandals, youve had people like Kevin Hart and James Gunn be cancelled (at least temporarily losing high profile jobs) in similar circumstances, ie questionable tweets from 10 years ago. In the case of these 2 they apologised multiple times. 

So we really have to keep things consistent, a lot of the time people calling for others to be cancelled also have probably said things in which they could be cancelled as well. So having empathy for people and allowing them to make mistakes is extremely important for any society. Like Jesus might have said 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Circling back to Chappelle, he should be allowed to call out this negative aspect of this section of the community. It feels like they are trying to reduce it to him just insulting the trans community but then the irony is that hes calling them out for what they are currently doing to him which is cancelling anyone who says anything that could even be interpreted as negative criticism. Regardless of whether hes right or wrong its still a valid criticism, although a very nuanced one.  

[Tanz]

On 10/30/2021 at 3:43 AM, Consept said:

But here lies the hypocrisy, i agree with you in that shes probably changed in that time although its hard to say for definite, but if you look at recent tweet scandals, youve had people like Kevin Hart and James Gunn be cancelled (at least temporarily losing high profile jobs) in similar circumstances, ie questionable tweets from 10 years ago. In the case of these 2 they apologised multiple times. 

Precisely and Kevin Hart has really shown he's grown into an outstanding human being. His father was abusive, walked away from him and his mother, yet he still brought him in and rekindled their relationship, yet he still got canceled.  He's been an advocate for love and is a great leader for young black men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTeMqMa-zbw

[SgtPepper]

I largely agree with Dave Chappelle. I actually found him to be progressive for supporting transgender choice in using what bathroom they want. 

I don't really agree with the idea that transgender women are women in the conventional sense and vice versa with men.

They are exactly what they call themselves: transgender women or transgender men.

I agreed with him when he pointed out how Caitlyn Jenner won woman of the year as being ridiculous. 

I feel like Dave Chappelle's has a reasonable opinion.

[supremeyingyang]

@SgtPepper

He pushes back against this simplifying rhetoric of 'if you are not with us, you are with the enemy' (on both sides) in the Trans-Question, which may brought social change in the beginning (accepting trans is a thing at all) but won't help us engineer sustainable social change in the future. It's a nuanced Question we should want answer to win as a society. It's important to discuss that together (even if we disagree) and not against each other and of course w/o dehumanization of the opposite group.

Bottom line: Dave is just a function of the discussion. It can get better or worse depending on if we, as society, can discuss that openly and find over YEARS AND DECADES better solutions for everyone, but against ignorance (now  the discussion begins what ignorance with Trans people is... and so on and so on^^)

Edited October 31, 2021 by supremeyingyang