Distinction between emptiness and nothingness

[Mu_]

9 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

I see a lot of value in “….mystery….” as a pointer. Even “present moment experience” implodes on itself as soon as it’s examined. Why is present moment experience good or true? Well, let me “leave” it to tell you why it’s so great ? And yeah, I get that you can’t necessarily leave it, but you can only speak about it by pulling on past/future. 
 

Experience does run off distinctions as much as it runs off a lack of distinction. They’re both the same thing which is neither a thing nor a non-thing. 

Ya mystery is a good word for this stuff, its an element that I feel is often lacking in spiritual inquiry and understanding.

You may find value in this video, it points to a lot of what I'm talking about and what I think your wondering about.  I also think since you've had a lot of experience in these matters, the video may offer some subtlety you may appreciate.

[OneHandClap]

On 10/21/2021 at 0:13 PM, The0Self said:

5th jhana is a very high state for not using substances. As in maybe 1 in 100 people who have experienced both jhana 5 and a profound mystical experience on LSD will say they had a more intense experience from LSD. J5 is ultra mystical, of course not nearly as incredible as the collapse of time which can happen on LSD, or glimpses, but generally orders of magnitude more amazing than what came before it. But 6th and 7th are just a small step up from j5, in terms of the skill required to cultivate them... The big jump in that regard is between jhana 4 and 5, and of course also 0 and 1.

Yes, this is precisely what I was trying to convey. Well put. I think many people are quick to "script" their experiences after reading about jhanas. Best to just do the practices until one can become proficient and stable in each jhana, IMO. 

[The0Self]

On 10/22/2021 at 7:23 PM, OneHandClap said:

Yes, this is precisely what I was trying to convey. Well put. I think many people are quick to "script" their experiences after reading about jhanas. Best to just do the practices until one can become proficient and stable in each jhana, IMO. 

Definitely. Yeah the main thing I was attempting to add to your comment was just pointing out that if one can get to J5, they can probably quite easily get to J7, but certainly J6 which is essentially just a slight tweak to J5. The biggest jump seems to be from 4-5, and also 0-1 and 7-8 are big jumps.

[OneHandClap]

41 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Definitely. Yeah the main thing I was attempting to add to your comment was just pointing out that if one can get to J5, they can probably quite easily get to J7, but certainly J6 which is essentially just a slight tweak to J5. The biggest jump seems to be from 4-5, and also 0-1 and 7-8 are big jumps.

Yes, 0 to 1 is tough. Especially if we come at it with the "push hard" mentality. The surrender aspect is probably the fundamental skill for all jhanas, but once one gets it down, it seems to speed up until the phases you listed here.