is the sex you are born with, immutable?

[gettoefl]

if so, are you saying that those born with penis must use the men's restrooms and those born with vagina must use the women's restrooms?

(the sentence above equivalent to trans people cannot transition)

seems to me older generation answers yes / yes ... younger generation answers no

short answers preferred 

 

[Opo]

No shit you can't change sex. 

We are talking about gender. 

[gettoefl]

4 minutes ago, Opo said:

No shit you can't change sex. 

We are talking about gender. 

so trans people cannot use their restroom of choice?

[Opo]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

so trans people cannot use their restroom of choice?

Of course they can. 

[Shin]

11 minutes ago, Opo said:

No shit you can't change sex. 

We are talking about gender. 

Maybe for now, but medecine will evolve and I'm pretty sure you will be able to change your genitals (and hormones level associated with them) perfectly at some point.

Gender is also being more and more fluid nowadays, I assume (this kind of come from my ass though, no pun intended ) there is more and more people in the middle or able to switch psychologically how they feel they are on the masculine/femininity spectrum, and it will only get muddier and muddier.

[gettoefl]

8 minutes ago, Opo said:

Of course they can. 

contradicted yourself

[Opo]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

Maybe for now, but medecine will evolve and I'm pretty sure you will be able to change your genitals (and hormones level associated with them) perfectly at some point.

Yea but idn about chromosomes and in the end it's irrelevant for a happy life. 

@gettoefl

What do you think? 

[gettoefl]

if you can't change sex, you can't use your restroom of choice

[Opo]

9 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

contradicted yourself

To understand this you need to know the difference between sex and gender. 

2 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

if you can't change sex, you can't use your restroom of choice

Why? 

And you didn't answer. 

Does he look like he belongs in there? 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Opo

[gettoefl]

lets make this simple

1.

read the first message

2.

your choices are

a. yes and yes

b. no

 

[Opo]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

lets make this simple

1.

read the first message

2.

your choices are

a. yes and yes

b. no

 

Lmao. 

Grow up. 

[zazen]

I think there has to be a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is the physical form of which their are two, gender is the characteristics/traits predominant to each of those sexes. 

 

You can be male and have some female traits, and be male and have some female traits. In fact it rounds you off as a person as its integrative. The fact that a person has to change their sex because society makes them feel they can due to them having the opposite sex's traits is actually opposite of inclusive. You can be a man and include female traits and visa versa. 

[decentralized]

6 minutes ago, zazen said:

I think there has to be a distinction between gender and sex. Sex is the physical form of which their are two, gender is the characteristics/traits predominant to each of those sexes. 

 

You can be male and have some female traits, and be male and have some female traits. In fact it rounds you off as a person as its integrative. The fact that a person has to change their sex because society makes them feel they can due to them having the opposite sex's traits is actually opposite of inclusive. You can be a man and include female traits and visa versa. 

I mostly agree with this. If you have some stereotypical "feminine" traits that doesn't mean you have to take cross-sex hormones and surgery to be even more feminine. No one asked to be born as their sex, but it's somehow implemented with our personality and a vast majority of people don't have an issue with this. For the people who really have an undeniable identification with the cross-sex, I really want to learn the scientifical explanation of this away from political correctness. Because "they just know" or "they're trapped in the wrong body" doesn't make me convinced to allow a person with a penis inside my daughter's restroom. Young girls in schools and women in prisons are getting raped because the authorities don't/can't question people's gender identity and just allow any people who identifies as female inside. That's madness and definitely not sustainable, there's a reason why we have separated restrooms for years.

[zazen]

9 minutes ago, decentralized said:

I mostly agree with this. If you have some stereotypical "feminine" traits that doesn't mean you have to take cross-sex hormones and surgery to be even more feminine. No one asked to be born as their sex, but it's somehow implemented with our personality and a vast majority of people don't have an issue with this. For the people who really have an undeniable identification with the cross-sex, I really want to learn the scientifical explanation of this away from political correctness. Because "they just know" or "they're trapped in the wrong body" doesn't make me convinced to allow a person with a penis inside my daughter's restroom. Young girls in schools and women in prisons are getting raped because the authorities don't/can't question people's gender identity and just allow any people who identifies as female inside. That's madness and definitely not sustainable, there's a reason why we have separated restrooms for years.

Good points, also if children are being told in school now that if they feel more feminine they can become female or visa versa that is only fragmenting them even further. This must be the excesses of stage green (inclusiveness) ? Once problems start to crop up maybe society will then change their approach and come to a healthy green paradigm.. 

In the past we were told to disown/repress the opposite sex's traits within us (men cant be anything like women or women anything like men) but now we are disowning our own biological sex. The point is both are wrong for they disown the sex we are born into, or traits we have within ourself. Im guessing the way forward is integration. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by zazen

[Shin]

Just now, zazen said:

Good points, also if children are being told in school now that if they feel more feminine they can become male and visa versa that is only fragmenting them even further. This must be the excesses of stage green? Once problems start to crop up will society then change their approach and come to a healthy green paradigm.. 

 

In the past we were told to disown/repress the opposite sex's traits within us (men cant be anything like women or women anything like men) but now we are disowning our own biological sex. The point is both are wrong for they disown the sex we are born into, or traits we have within ourself. Im guessing the way forward is integration. 

That's just a gross projection of the human mind.
You don't need a penis to feel masculine or a vagina to be feminine.

Some (not all) who change sex are very confused about their gender to need to change their genitalia, when all you have to do is just accept that you have a masculine/feminine mind inside a woman/man body.

Many gays and lesbians are just fine accepting that, no need to butcher your body.

[gettoefl]

14 minutes ago, decentralized said:

I mostly agree with this. If you have some stereotypical "feminine" traits that doesn't mean you have to take cross-sex hormones and surgery to be even more feminine. No one asked to be born as their sex, but it's somehow implemented with our personality and a vast majority of people don't have an issue with this. For the people who really have an undeniable identification with the cross-sex, I really want to learn the scientifical explanation of this away from political correctness. Because "they just know" or "they're trapped in the wrong body" doesn't make me convinced to allow a person with a penis inside my daughter's restroom. Young girls in schools and women in prisons are getting raped because the authorities don't/can't question people's gender identity and just allow any people who identifies as female inside. That's madness and definitely not sustainable, there's a reason why we have separated restrooms for years.

so you are saying correct me if i'm wrong that you cannot change the sex you are born with

[gettoefl]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

That's just a gross projection of the human mind.
You don't need a penis to feel masculine or a vagina to be feminine.

Some (not all) who change sex are very confused about their gender to need to change their genitalia, when all you have to do is just accept that you have a masculine/feminine mind inside a woman/man body.

Many gays and lesbians are just fine accepting that, no need to butcher your body.

so you are saying correct me if i am wrong that you can change the sex you are born with

[Rilles]

38 minutes ago, zazen said:

Sex is the physical form of which their are two

1% of the world population is born Intersex. Thats quite a big number. 

Edit: My bad, its about 0.018%. If you think that counts as a third sex is up to your own subjective mind to decide. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Rilles

[gettoefl]

everyone has great opinions and experiences

what we are asking is can trans people use their restroom of choice

 

[decentralized]

12 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

so you are saying correct me if i'm wrong that you cannot change the sex you are born with

Why do you need me to say if it's possible or not? You can do the research on your own.

Edited October 18, 2021 by decentralized