Psychedelics Don't Deserve The Attention

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

You forgot an important factor here. Genetics. 

5-Meo inside of you ≠ 5-Meo inside of Leo. Just because you didn't realize absolute truth on psyches, it doesn't mean it is impossible. 

From my psychedelic trips so far I'd say that psychedelics are the strongest and easiest tool to completely and effortlessly transform myself. 

From the books and studies I've read about psychedelics they clearly seem to be an incredibly effective tool for many people (healing depression, trauma - helping to deal with death, stopping addictions, etc.)

They are very powerful. I think they actually helped me my pot addiction too.

And admittedly I am learning how to use them still. Developing my protocols, mental models of what they are.

I just know there is soooooo much spirituality outside of them too. Still learning... I am a seedling.

They showed me so much love, beauty, grace and even my current life purpose. 

But, I had to take action on those insights.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Thought Art

[Moksha]

6 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

Just because you didn't realize absolute truth on psyches, it doesn't mean it is impossible. 

Similarly, just because someone doesn't realize absolute truth through suffering or meditation doesn't mean others haven't. Psychedelics are appealing, because they require less effort than these other paths. Perhaps the insights they deliver are also less sustainable. How many people have learned not to suffer on psychedelics alone?

Even after I understood the need to disentangle from my attachments to get there, it has not been an easy or rapid process. Instead of the instant enlightenment I envisioned from psychedelics, it has required years of incremental practice to even begin to get free of the conditioned feelings, habits, and unconscious urges that keep rising to the surface. And it's not that they have gone or will go away, but how I identify with them as I shift more toward the soul that Maharaj-ji reflected back to me.

- Ram Dass

 

[Thought Art]

@Moksha I just... I don't know if what I experienced was absolute truth. Also, life is more than some realizations is what I am saying.

I am also young. It seemed like it was the truth. 

I will have deeper awakenings, and I will develop myself more.

I realized I was God, that It's just this appearance in a void pretending. That I have no beginning or end.

But, I still don't know how to reconcile what I think is the Truth, with relative truth and how little I know about our universe. 

So, do I really know the truth? I don't know.

Clearly, I am the truth. But, how I work I don't know.

I also had a trip where I hugged my friend and got into his personal space while on 5meodmt. I think this has left a stain on psychedelics for me until I can reconcile it. The day before he told me we were brothers, and then he just disappeared. He completely changed.

 

After I tripped I thought he was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. We were brothers, we were growing together. Leo also said other don't really exist... So I because I had no boundaries in that state I like hugged him, touched his face, was doing Qigong knocking on his back and feeling into his skin deeply. I was also tensing up a lot... thinking about a lot at once... He is very fragile and I think it scared him. He hit me, and I playfully hit him back thinking everything was okay and we were just playing. But, he was upset but it. Maybe other things to. Anyway. That experience really made me doubt the validity of other peoples experiences. I thought he was gaslighting me after the trip. So, then I was like.. Thinking maybe he was having some kind of backlash or flash back or something. He seemed to have a break down after that. I still don't know what to make of it.

So, I've had mostly good experiences... one very confusing one. Leo also was mad at me for it. But, It happened to me. I've had total collapses of every distinction into a perfect unity, I've experience infinite love and peace, total perfection. I've forgiven everyone and everything in those states. I've experienced deep existential fear, confusion.. Ego death... 

Was it God? Was it God? What is God? 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Thought Art

[Moksha]

@Thought Art Trust your instinct. It sounds like you have had insights, but have not awakened yet. Awakening is the direct realization of absolute truth, beyond any experience. If thinking is involved, it is not awakening. It is the direct spiritual resonance with your divine nature. This enduring realization of unity, where boundaries dissolve and you see the sameness of yourself in all things, is the purpose of life.

But where there is unity, one without a second, that is the world of Brahman. This is the supreme goal of life, the supreme treasure, the supreme joy. Those who do not seek this supreme goal live on but a fraction of this joy.

[Thought Art]

8 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@Thought Art Trust your instinct. It sounds like you have had insights, but have not awakened yet. Awakening is the direct realization of absolute truth, beyond any experience. If thinking is involved, it is not awakening. It is a direct spiritual resonance with your divine nature. This realization of unity, where boundaries dissolve and you see the sameness of yourself in all things, is the purpose of life.

But where there is unity, one without a second, that is the world of Brahman. This is the supreme goal of life, the supreme treasure, the supreme joy. Those who do not seek this supreme goal live on but a fraction of this joy.

Maybe that is the challenge. Like, I am not in the state right now. It's hard to contain and remember it. I've seen beyond.. I've realized "Between the click of the light and the start of the dream"

The nothingness that is actually what this is. I am thinking about it right now... But, not when I was in these particular states.

Who knows, I have more tripping to do.

You would think I would "Know" if I found the truth. But, I don't really know. I don't know my own mind well enough. It seemed like it was true. But, I've been wrong before. 

I think I am still immature, thinking the Truth is something I can use. 

 

Ps... Loving the irony of this thread.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Thought Art

[Jodistrict]

Psychedelics are a powerful tool, but the challenge is to integrate the experiences into your life to create real change.  I only take them in ceremonies in Mexico conducted by shawmen who have been trained to use them in healing.  They are called “medicines” and offered in group ceremonies.  I have found the group to be an important part of the healing process.  

It is true that there is no magic pill, but that also applies to meditation, yoga, non duality, psychology etc.  I have been meditating for years with little results.  But now that marketing has gotten involved, it is hyped as a solution for everything.   And people waste years on ineffective Western psychotherapy.   I take the medicines because they get me into my body and avoid the useless mind chatter of other approaches.

There is something to be said for the non-duality religions.    The belief system acts as a glue to unite people and create a common identity.  It is a form of group healing.   
 

[Ry4n]

The idea someone could do so many psychedelics and still never have the slightest taste of non-dual awareness sober breaks my heart quite frankly. Or that some people can't be sane under such a condition, because for those who can they will be MORE sane and at peace. It's clear most people just aren't ready and that's ok. Doesn't make you as an individual special in any way though, it's just how it is really. 

And embodiment is almost an entirely different enterprise, it's like the pinnacle of self actualisation. That shit takes YEARS, and it is very obvious who's embodied and who isn't, regardless of their self acclaimed wokeness. 

[Moksha]

13 hours ago, Thought Art said:

You would think I would "Know" if I found the truth. But, I don't really know. I don't know my own mind well enough. It seemed like it was true. But, I've been wrong before.

You're right to question your thoughts. Someone told me years ago that our thoughts can't be trusted. I didn't understand at the time, but now it seems obvious. Socrates realized it when he concluded, "I neither know nor think I know."

I feel this is why absolute truth can only be directly realized. It is Consciousness resonating with itself, and is entirely non-conceptual. When it happens, there is no doubt.

[QandC]

@Thought Art I thought the same way, until I really got into psychedelics. They have shown me things that I probably would have never experienced through a "sober path". You have to be strategic in the way you take them and have a purpose.

It is indeed a tool. But you have to use it in the right way

[Thought Art]

Just now, QandC said:

@Thought Art I thought the same way, until I really got into psychedelics. They have shown me things that I probably would have never experienced through a "sober path". You have to be strategic in the way you take them and have a purpose.

It is indeed a tool. But you have to use it in the right way

You and me we got Chemistry!

 

[Nahm]

21 hours ago, FlyingLotus said:

I call this the boofing emoji:  ?

???

[FlyingLotus]

Something to keep in mind is that psychedelics are still useful for emotional and psychological healing, even if you never get a full awakening.  

 

On 10/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, Nahm said:

???

Yay, I made @Nahm laugh!!

 

On 10/17/2021 at 5:51 PM, Thought Art said:

Ps... Loving the irony of this thread.

Haha!!

...

...

Edited October 25, 2021 by FlyingLotus

[waterfire]

Obviously they are just tools for transformation and incredibly profound tools at that!  And, obviously having an enlightening experience with a psychedelic is different than being enlightened. There is a lot of work to do to integrate the wisdom, learn how to master our minds, impulses, and habitual patterns... there are belief systems to conquer, wounds to heal, and a path to self love that requires true humility, courage, ego disillusion and integration, we need to hone our daily rituals and practices and master skills and ultimately birth the greatest expressions of ourselves in service to something greater than ourselves.  Is a psychedelic going to do all this for you, not, but am I missing something, because I don't see that as the message here.

I have never got the message that Leo believes that psychedelics are the end game, but more, one of the most profound tools to create breakthroughs and provide a direct experience of the Infinite/Reality/God/Mind.  I see the lean in to psychedelics as a progression on the path of awakening and self actualizing, because after years of mediation, yoga, mystical experience, contemplation... psychedelics found me, and for me, they have offered me the most radical shift in understanding of who I am, and have shined a light on some of the work I needed to do to become more authentic and in alignment Truth. They are still showing me the next level -  how to embody the philosophies and the Infinite Sacred Being that I am.   

My understanding (which seems to be mimicked by this website) is that contemplation, meditation, yoga, exercise, diet, continual learning, creative work, healthy relationships, discipline, selflessness, truth, learning how to create balance in mind, body, heart, soul, and relationships, work are all part of the lessons and tools being taught here.

I see the open sharing of using psychedelics for authentic transformation and enlightenment helpful because normalizing these tool means more people will try them and hopefully experience Love and start awakening. 

The secret is out -  the greatest scientists, gurus, artists, visionaries, philosophers, inventors, entrepreneurs, wisdom keepers, teachers... have used these plant allies and synthesized tools since the beginning of time...We are living in a time, in which perhaps, we will discover what happens when these forbidden and hidden tools become available to all of us as we explore Consciousness and to awaken.

Perhaps, partnering with psychedelics we can awaken each other and create "the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible" 

I am witnessing the evangelic psychedelic tone of the website, and yet I am also witnessing content that is balanced with essential tools for true awakening... lessons on holism, spiral dynamics, sense making, meditation, first principle thinking, epistemology, Aztec non dualism, shadow work, ego development, Taoism...

I am actually really really grateful for the 5 MEO MALT share (I had not heard of it)!!!  I am grateful that these tools are being shared (all of them)

I have tried 5 MEO DMT (Toad, which I love) and see that psychedelics and many tools are part of the process of true awakening.