Map territory ?️ vs ?

[Charlotte]

It took a few years but when it hit, it stung.

I have come to observe how the mind will mistaken the map for the territory ?️. It will cling like no tomorrow, and not only cling (to the map) but also hide the fact you don't know you only know the map, intellectually. You won't know (not generalising only speaking from my own experience about myself) you only 'know' the map until you bring this to light and question it. You won't know until you directly experience the territory vs the map. What I have in fact, directly experienced, vs held as belief, I can count on one hand. 

This is profundity. It's amazing, why? Because I can let go of beliefs, I can clearly now differentiate between map vs territory, menu vs food. I can see and most importantly, feel the contrasting experiences. This is profound. 

Have you seen this? Felt this? 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Charlotte

[Leo Gura]

Yeah, it's so obvious once you get it, but until you get it you just brush it off as no big deal.

And the real mindfuck is that even the phrase "the map is not the territory" is just a map, not the territory

[Jakuchu]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And the real mindfuck is that even the phrase "the map is not the territory" is just a map, not the territory 

And that also is just a map 

Now it's your turn again

[TheAlchemist]

First time I saw the territory, I retreated in terror.

I was looking at a lake, contemplating perception, when I suddenly realized that what I am looking at is NOT a lake! When I tell myself I'm looking at a lake, I have already laid the map in front of the territory!

Seeing that the thing I was referring to as the "lake" is something totally alien and raw was a real big and overwhelming insight, but also glaringly obvious at the same time. 

And now, here I am, making a map out of that moment...

[Carl-Richard]

It's the awareness of the fundamental nature of thought as self-talk, talk as a play of symbols, and the representational nature of symbols. The word "cat" represents a cat; it's is not a itself a cat. As thoughts are spoken, maps are written. When you stop speaking, you get to silence. Why do we speak? Why do we make maps? As means towards an end. What is silence? What is truth? It speaks for itself.

[Nahm]

@Charlotte

Yay. For. You. ?

As well, apply to any arising thought, of which there seems to be the experience of, fear. 

Works amazingly, but, you didn’t hear that from me. 

[gettoefl]

"In nothingness all is within you; these flowers, these trees and this beautiful evening all are within you. In fact, then there is no without. Everything has sprung from within. And you cannot have any richer life than when everything is recognized as your within. What more can you want?"

Osho

[Moksha]

One realizes the map isn't the territory, until realizing that the one realizing doesn't ultimately exist.  The map is the territory, pointing to itself.

[Willie]

Doesn’t the territory include the maps of itself?

[Charlotte]

Thanks for all your replies. 

@Nahm I do see this with thought, I see the subtleties in the distinctions, however, I still identify, the identification is strong. I did contemplate why this identification is so strong and why the need to 'cling' to thought, something blurry appeared from this contemplation, a blurred feeling of fear, of loneliness. Thought is me, I am thought, thought I am, when the thoughts are gone there is nothing. I hold a belief that thought (me) is 'my' closest friend and has kept me safe. There is such a strong hold on keeping with this narrative so that the 'I" remains. It's beautiful nevertheless. Undoubtedly 'I' will deploy the strongest strategy there is on keeping this identification with thought. And that's okay as I surrender slowly, I surrender in love and with love. Keep returning to feeling and the senses.  

[Alex_R]

The only way to understand this is taking psychedelics

[Shin]

You know no territory, Charlotte Map

[Nahm]

@Charlotte

I thinks. I thinks there are feelings. I labels one of them fear. I knows what things are. But inspection is well underway, and what is illusory can not withstand the scrutiny of what is real. As they say, three things shall not long be hidden, the sun, the moon and the truth. 

 

[Zeroguy]

Just now, Alex_R said:

The only way to understand this is taking psychedelics

I know that. Yes feelings. Thank you. 

[Moksha]

46 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

The only way to understand this is taking psychedelics

If only they had 5-meO-DMT when the Buddha, Jesus, and the sages of the Upanishads directly realized their true nature 

You are them, and they are you, and not every enlightened character requires psychedelics to see the dream for what it is.

[Nahm]

Great, great movie out called Free Guy. Should’ve called it Free Girl. Movie’s like a pin. ? 

[Zeroguy]

Just now, Moksha said:

If only they had 5-meO-DMT when the Buddha, Jesus, and the sages of the Upanishads directly realized their true nature 

You are them, and they are you, and not every enlightened character requires psychedelics to see the dream for what it is.

Yes,it is true. 

Want to add comment. But ok I accept. 

[RickyFitts]

10 hours ago, Charlotte said:

And that's okay as I surrender slowly, I surrender in love and with love. Keep returning to feeling and the senses.  

This is key I think, I love this  

I've felt an unwillingness in myself of late to let go of my sense of personhood, I guess because I identify with this sense and I feel like there's going to be nothing left if I let go of it - that I'll cease to exist, essentially. At the same time I recognise on some level that I have to let go of it if I want to be truly free, but the thought of letting go brings up feelings of sorrow and fear.

But surrender, as you say, is what is required.

[Charlotte]

@Nahm @Alex_R

18 hours ago, Willie said:

 

Sorry @Alex_R and Willie please ignore tag's. 

Nahm one major burning question within me is centered around feelings. Feelings fleet, feelings are subjective and to me an energy. However, feelings can and *sometimes* do relate to something deeper, for example, I just spotted a mangled pigeon on the sidewalk, I decided to bury him or her, and within the the stomach I felt a deep pit like feeling, sadness. I honour that feeling, I don't disregard. I respect and accept that feeling. 

Another hypothetical e.g., being with a partner I no longer wish to be with, being in their company provides a deep, unsettling intuitive like feeling. I listen to that because it's a story, it longs for awareness, it longs for the light.

So my question is, some feelings, yes, maybe even most, derive from thought, they fleet, and blow around like a bag in the wind. These fleeting feelings I see are limited, and superficial, however the other feelings I mentioned further up, are I would say from a deeper space. It's important to hold space for these feelings, and acknowledge them yes? I almost feel, 'feelings' could attach an unhealthy stigma to them, and be spirituality bypassed, when, I feel, fleeting, superficial, or limited feelings should be held, acknowledged and allowed. They had a story, which points you to a deeper lesson, and usually a huge chance for growth. 

 

What would you reply to this? 

[Charlotte]

@RickyFitts very similar to the experience of myself. Sometimes brute forcing our way through can have an adverse affect. Love, respect and patience. We are magnificent, a miracle, we are the universe. How could one brush this off and try and 'rid' themselves of themselves with an intention of nothing but love?