Was I an Asshole?

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

If you look at sex from the point of view of a win - lose paradigm, as if there is only one party that is enjoying and proactively wanting the experience, then your opinion on this issue would make sense, otherwise your opinion is rather unfounded and fallacious. 

The fact is that nobody owes anybody a relationship or sex for that matter, and that is the implication when you think a person is an ''asshole'' for not having a relationship after sex. That's completely devoid of any sense. 

This sounds good in theory but in practice there are strong expectations with these things.

From the guy's POV, just some simple easy sex is all win-win. But that's not how it is from most girls' POV.

Obviously in the OP's case he felt he won and she felt she lost. It was not a win-win for her as you imagine.

When deep intimacy is built, especially using spiritual lingo and techniques, and then converted into a ONS, this can be very hurtful. It leads the other person on.

[Harlen Kelly]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

When deep intimacy is built, especially using spiritual lingo and techniques, and then converted into a ONS, this can be very hurtful.

Even if deep intimacy was built, that does not imply OP owes her a relationship. That's an indefensible ideological position that stems from the belief that women are doing you a favor by sleeping with you, which is just that, a belief. 

4 hours ago, somegirl said:

It is expected that a guy sends follow up message the next morning after sex. Also, he was pursuing her, not other way around.

That's a made up rule, a very convenient and sneaky rule at that. You can send the message as well.  

Edited October 15, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[TK2021]

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Even if deep intimacy was built, that does not imply OP owes her a relationship. That's an indefensible ideological position that stems from the belief that women are doing you a favor by sleeping with you, which is just that, a belief.

It's also a belief that billionaires shouldn't enslave you for their agendas. But you wouldn't like that very much would you?

I get it. It's very hard to practice love in a world filled with severely selfish and unconscious people like most of us. Many times you get the short-end of the stick "business" wise. But you gain something much more valuable.

Edited October 15, 2021 by TK2021

[Nahm]

6 - 7 hours… 15 mins. Classy 

[Harlen Kelly]

@TK2021 Expecting a relationship or sex is not ''practicing love'', is the bedrock of selfishness, the person expecting that is doing so to fulfill their own particular selfish needs.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[TK2021]

51 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@TK2021 Expecting a relationship or sex is not ''practicing love'', is the bedrock of selfishness, the person expecting that is doing so to fulfill their own particular selfish needs.

Exactly my point. Because other people are selfish, you feel that it is right to be selfish too. And then we end up in a dog-eat-dog world, which will end up self-terminating with our technological development.

On top of that - embodying this sort of mindset is not only causing suffering to others, but to yourself. Your life lacks integrity, love and beauty, and you become hollow and feel a constant sense of lack.

[Harlen Kelly]

42 minutes ago, TK2021 said:

Exactly my point. Because other people are selfish, you feel that it is right to be selfish too. And then we end up in a dog-eat-dog world, which will end up self-terminating with our technological development.

I never made a prescriptive argument nor did I make a suggestion as to how people ought to behave, what I stated is that nobody owes anybody a romantic relationship or sex for that matter. 

What you wrote doesn't have anything to do with what I have stated. 

Just to exemplify how damaging the expectation/belief that other people owe you sex or a relationship is, men who believe women owe them sex are referred to as incels, rightfully so. 

People will have sex and relationships with whoever they deem appropriate, not because they are obligated to, but because they want to.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[TK2021]

You don't understand. This thread is made to analyze right/wrong behavior. Wholesome action/unwholesome action.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Just to exemplify how damaging the expectation/belief that other people owe you sex or a relationship is, men who believe women owe them sex are referred to as incels, rightfully so.

Okay, since you cannot step into the girls shoes yourself lemme help out. It's the same as you going on some huge dinner date with a girl, and the girl has basically already decided she doesn't wanna have sex with you, because you are ugly or whatever. Yet she knows that you wanna have sex. And she uses that premise to fleece you for a free meal. Then when the dinner is over she just says she is tired and tells you to leave. You feel like a chump.

[Harlen Kelly]

13 minutes ago, TK2021 said:

This thread is made to analyze right/wrong behavior

Nothing could further from the truth. 

In your example, do you think the hypothetical girl owes or is obligated to have sex with the hypothetical guy because he spent a lot of money on a huge dinner? And would it be a ''Wholesome action'' for her to have sex with him in that example?

Edited October 15, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Leo Gura]

It's not about owing a relationship. It's about basic decency.

You are in denial that your kind of flippant attitude will commonly hurt people. 

Just ask her if she feels hurt. And she will say YES. But you seem to be in denial about that and blaming her for expecting too much.

[Harlen Kelly]

@Leo Gura Basic decency does not imply you owe or should have a romantic relationship with anybody, that applies to both men and women.  

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just ask her if she feels hurt. And she will say YES.

So do incels who believe women owe them sex after not getting sex from a woman they are attracted to, does that justify their feelings or belief system? 

The answer is no. You should strive to reduce emotional damage, but the fact that she feels hurt does not mean he should have a relationship with her. 

People will have sex and relationships with whoever they deem appropriate, not because they are obligated to, but because they want to.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[TK2021]

3 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

In your example, do you think the hypothetical girl owes or is obligated to have sex with the hypothetical guy because he spent a lot of money on a huge dinner? And would it be a ''Wholesome action'' for her to have sex with him in that example?

Again you are not understanding. In my example for you, you were supposed to understand that the unwholesome action was done by the manipulating girl. The girl doesn't owe anything to the guy, but she is being a cu** for using him. It is unwholesome to lead people on, manipulate them and make them suffer just to fulfill your own selfish desires. Whether it's a guy or a girl. What is so hard to understand?

You keep bringing up incels and I wonder, perhaps this amount of confusion in your thinking can only be caused by some incel rage on your part? Perhaps you feel that because men are just told to suck it up when they are used, it is therefore alright to use girls? It's just part of life, huh? Because incels don't have a right to their grievances - therefore women shouldn't either. I actually believe everyone, even incels, deserve much more understanding. They aren't owed anything, but they shouldn't be purposefully treated like shit for your own pleasures either, if you can avoid it.

[Harlen Kelly]

14 minutes ago, TK2021 said:

The girl doesn't owe anything to the guy

Exactly, and vice versa.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Lyubov]

I was not there so I'm not going to say I know everything, nor I know what OP or the woman is like. This is just what I sense from reading this and it could be off to some or even a large degree. Basically I have an idea of what happened cause I'm pretty sure I did just this several years ago only our connection wasn't through spiritual stage green stuff.

OP, you weren't as fully into this experience (as present) as you could of been and your communication and finesse needs work. When you sleep with a woman, she stays fucking over at your house and you cuddle after till you both fall asleep. Period. End of discussion unless she wants to go herself. You should be thinking about her needs after she gives her body to you. Women need care after a good fuck. Why on earth would you send her home?  I understand it can be uncomfortable to sleep next to a new person if you aren't used to it. I basically play on my phone after I cuddle my gf to sleep cause I know it's gonna be a while till I can fall asleep. Either way, you go a night without sleep if you have to or get a bigger bed lol. Took me months of building up to the point where I can leave my gf after fucking her brains out at night and that took a long time to work up to. You just come off sounding unromantic and kinda selfish. You need to read the room better. All this spiritual mumbo jumbo talk just sorta becomes a facade when it's used to dress up a ONS and dating. I get it, you have it in common but you really have to walk the walk and be extra careful if you are gonna dive into this with someone you just met AND be working towards fulfilling your own sexual/relationship needs. This is one of the reasons I can't stand new age chicks tbh.

I don't think you had bad intentions or were incredibly selfish. It just sounds like you need more presence, and how to communicate more and how to follow through with care after sex. Work on being more romantic. Old fashion sensibilities on this might actually serve you more than you realize to learn how not to make mistakes like this again. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Leo Gura

So do incels who believe women owe them sex after not getting sex from a woman they are attracted to, does that justify their feelings or belief system?

If the woman leads him on and makes it seems like sex will be happening, and then pulls the rug out from other him -- then yes, she's also behaving in a hurtful and asshole manner. Some girls do that and it is infuriating. Not because they owe sex, but just because of the way things are lead on.

Ghosting someone after sex is very cold. It's obvious this hurts people. At the very least you could say something like, "Hey, I had a great time with you last night but I don't feel you are the right one for me long-term and I don't want to waste your time leading you on. Sorry."

[Harlen Kelly]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ghosting someone after sex is very cold. It's obvious this hurts people.

Of course it does, none of what I said is in contradiction with being clear, honest and straight forward with your communication.