Was I an Asshole?

[blessedlion1993]

I live in Peru, in a spiritual place. Many people here are doing plant medicine and psychedelics.

 

I met a woman at a restaurant and she was alone so i just sat with her and we went deep into a conversation about meditation and different spiritual practices.

 

Minutes turned to hours and i invited her to my place to listen to music, do breathwork, and snuff (an amazonian tobacoo you blow up your nose)

She came over and we did some yoga, breathwork, tantra eye gazing and self inquiry and just chatted about emotions and life. It was beautiful, and this is not that untypical where i live, everyone is into tantra and consciousness and psychedelics.

 

I asked her if she wanted to cuddle and she said yes and that turned into making out and sex. After the sex (not right after but maybe like 15 min after) i realized we had been hanging out for like 6-7 hours and i just wanted to be alone to recharge (im an introvert). so i said i was just going to go to sleep and she was cool with it and left. 

I checked in to see how she was doing a few days later and she was ghosting me then said she felt used. I apologized that she felt that way, and that it wasn't my intention. 

Was i an asshole? I seriously want to know. I feel like i kinda was, but also was fucking tired and wanted to sleep

[aurum]

@blessedlion1993

I don’t think you had bad intentions. But most women are not going to feel great about having sex with a guy they just met and then leaving right after. Especially outside of a party context where something like that might be more acceptable.

So you’re not an asshole. You just misread her perspective on this.

I know she said “yes” when you asked to her leave, but that doesn’t she won’t feel bad about it later. Very unlikely she would impose and turn down your request.

Edited October 14, 2021 by aurum

[Roy]

No you were not. Just a simple communication and experience issue. Perhaps you could have said jokingly in the moment to communicate to her that you weren't just using her for the experience, "Hey babe I'm having an amazing time, but I'm exhausted and need to listen to my body and have a nap. Then I'll get back to being present with you, make yourself at home." Or you could have asked her to nap/sleep with you if she wasn't busy, to show that you appreciate her presence.

It could also just be the luck of that never having happened to her. Maybe she was never with a guy who was quite as introverted as you who authentically wanted to rest while together, and instead has only been with guys who bullshit and push to be interactive all the time because they don't want to seem disengaging or boring.

It's all just communication, subtle and explicit. All issues in relationships come from some kind of misstep in that department, it's a minefield so don't beat yourself up when you step on one now and then, just do your best and communicate  to them that you are trying and that sometimes you do fuck up and misstep.

I had a girlfriend earlier in the year that travelled to visit for a long weekend and I brought up that I was exhausted from the work week and needed to rest somewhat early in the day (2pmish) on the Saturday. Most girls would be kinda pissed about that because they expect that's when you're spending the most time being busy together, but I was straightforward and open about it and she appreciated it. Also threw a wildcard in being playful and told her, "If you let me nap for 2 hours now, I promise I'll fuck your brains out when I wake up." If I just went to sleep and didn't put effort into expressing my intentions it's likely things wouldn't have gone so nicely.

[Thunder Kiss]

3 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

so i said i was just going to go to sleep and she was cool with it and left. 

I checked in to see how she was doing a few days later and she was ghosting me then said she felt used.

telling someone to leave straight after sex is an icy move and signals player. 

Because you spent all that time together, shared emotions and then straight after sex you told her to leave.  I’m sure most women would feel used or like they had been ‘fooled’ ….

Had she gone home with you after a night at the club for a one night stand it would be different, but it’s the fact you had all this emotional stuff going on, she opened herself up to you over many hours.

She probably be feeling like you played her with all this emotional stuff just to get sex, so closed herself off emotionally by being distant as a protection mechanism. people don’t want to feel tricked or like they let their emotions get the better of them…. 

then you also waited days to speak to her, and during these days she probably hardened herself towards you and went over everything that happened, so you not getting in touch at least the next day would have confirmed her beliefs of being used.

a warmer and more caring thing to have done would be to let her sleep there.  Maybe she would still feel used but it’s better than having to leave in the middle of the night immediately after sex.. and if that’s not possible then a text or phone call the following morning to apologise for how tired you were and that you want to meet again….

regardless, she will be untrusting of you now so if you try to pursue her for sex again either she will be emotionally cold towards you, or she will end up feeling used again.  So maybe don’t waste time if you don’t want anything more with her. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Thunder Kiss

[TripleFly]

You were just in your self. Following whatever emotion had you.

It seems logical to me that after sex a man would need some time off to process and decide what to do next. This is the part she is missing from you. Had you let her in on this she would've been more compliant. Nevertheless she gave you some time off and you never said anything. Why?

What did you expect? To have gone back home and never heard from her again?

[egoeimai]

@blessedlion1993 you werent an asshole but i appreciate the fact that you think you were one. Youre humble. Okay. Keep going. It seems she couldnt handle the situation.

[Leo Gura]

1) Did you have any intentions of seeing her again? If yes, why didn't you communicate that to her?

2) Why didn't you fall asleep cuddling with her? If you want to keep a girl around and treat her well, cuddling and sleeping together after sex is crucial.

Last time I checked introverts enjoy cuddling and falling asleep together with girls.

3) If you had intentions to see her again, why did it take you "a few days later" to see how she was doing? In this situation, if you intend to keep her around AND you asked her to leave after sex, you gotta immediately follow up with some reassuring texts like, "Can't wait to see you again."

If your whole intention was just to bang her one time, then yeah, you kinda were an asshole and you did kinda use her with all that spiritual sweet-talk. You sneakily used spirituality to lure her in for a rather unspiritual deed (a one night stand). Even as I was reading your post/story of the events, when you wrote that you had sex with her, that struck me as overly stealthy and unexpected. Like you set up this perfectly executed plan to let down her guard and open her legs.

But otherwise, you were just inept in your communication and relationship skills.

[HypnoticMagician]

I think the only explanation I can reach is that she is just not that into you.  How to understand if a girl likes you? Simply by observing her after having sex with her. If that puts a smile on her face, she is more likely to love you. But if she meets you with a disgusted,repulsed face, most probably, indeed, it is her who used you for her fantasy of being used. She might have already been betrayed by an handsome men, and decided to have a little fun with you even only temporarily. And finally concluded that you are not even someone she could settle for.

Edited October 14, 2021 by HypnoticMagician

[somegirl]

Why didn't you tell her that you need to recharge or whatever you needed to do? 

Of course she felt used if you didn't contact her like the very next day about this whole thing. You just met her, she doesn't know you that well and what are your needs. At least a follow up text saying you really enjoyed her company would've been nice and would reassure her that you didn't just want to use her for sexual pleasure. 

You just didn't communicate well even though your intentions were good.

[Harlen Kelly]

@blessedlion1993 Short answer, no. In fact, the reason why she slept you with you the same day was primarily because your are carefree and detached from the outcome. 

@Leo Gura He never once mentioned that he intended to see her again or keep her around, that's a baseless assumption.  

Edited October 14, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Etherial Cat]

13 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

She came over and we did some yoga, breathwork, tantra eye gazing and self inquiry and just chatted about emotions and life. It was beautiful, and this is not that untypical where i live, everyone is into tantra and consciousness and psychedelics.

I asked her if she wanted to cuddle and she said yes and that turned into making out and sex. After the sex (not right after but maybe like 15 min after) i realized we had been hanging out for like 6-7 hours and i just wanted to be alone to recharge (im an introvert). so i said i was just going to go to sleep and she was cool with it and left. 

I checked in to see how she was doing a few days later and she was ghosting me then said she felt used. I apologized that she felt that way, and that it wasn't my intention. 

I'm highlighting the facts, so you can see them.

You see, you provide us with plenty of elements about your inner experience she didn't have. We get that you are fine, thanks to our ability to recontextualize what happened from your point of view.

Now from her POV, you basically had sex, disappeared right after and only resurfaced a few days later. She only got these elements and it left her plenty of time for negative sense-making and feel bad. 

I don't think I would like it much either if I had sex with a stranger and he wouldn't give me clear signs of caring a bit after. It would make me  feel like a "cheap whore" like Leo like to say. "A few days" appears like a bit too long, if some basic reassurance haven't been made ahead.

Also, what is exactly a few days? 3-4 days?

Edited October 14, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

He never once mentioned that he intended to see her again or keep her around

In that case he used her for sex and was rather an asshole.

It's very different doing a ONS based from some loud nightclub vs luring in a girl with all this spiritual talk. All the spiritual talk makes it seem like this is gonna be something deeper than a ONS.

Spiritual talk is so easily weaponized to lure girls in and then break their hearts.

[blessedlion1993]

Appreciate the insight everyone, as many mentioned I can admit this was massively bad communication on my end, I didn't really make it clear that i was just exhausted and needed to recharge for a bit. And we had spent a while opening up emotionally and doing certain fragile practices.

@Leo Gura As far as the intention of keeping her around goes, i honestly didn't know in that moment, i was kinda just going with the flow. Had she responded to my text i would've def been up to hang out again. I wasn't just pumping and dumping like a club ONS, or we could at least be friends, she was good company. But she wants nothing to do with me now, which I've just accepted.

I do have to look at myself and ask if i used spiritual and emotional practices to take advantage. I hope she doesn't see it that way bc we actually had a really nice night together. I see many guys doing this, and don't want to be like that. From my POV it was just like "hey, let's explore this, go deep, and see what comes up with each others' energy, and if we have some fun too, great, no harm and everyone is complaint." I wasn't intending to just do this once and ghost her, but i also wasn't really feeling like she would be a girlfriend later on. I have to be honest about that. 

Regarding the cuddling, I don't sleep well with other people in the bed, and it was only like 10PM so it wasn't that late. I even offered to walk her home and she said it was cool.

You guys have given me a lot to introspect on. I think the biggest fuck-up was my communication, as many have mentioned. In the future i'll be more honest about it and give her more insight into what's going on in my world. 
 

[Hello from Russia]

Can still be salvaged, imo, if you guys had a really really good time together, which sounds like you did

Just send her a huge appreciate note about the time you've spent together, say sorry for the abrupt ending and that you would LOVE to hang out with her again somewhere outside (Getting a juice in the park, eat some food together in nature, some nature gazing or whatever, just not in your appartment) 

Just make sure you communicate the appreciation for her really intensely, that she made a great lasting impression on you, find good excuses for poor follow-up (you were confused? Was overwhelmed with life/bad health?) and lead your way into the next engagement. If she doesn't want to continue - that's fine

Women really crave this leading/engaging mentality, she probably expected it of you but got disappointed

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Harlen Kelly]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In that case he used her for sex and was rather an asshole.

If you look at sex from the point of view of a win - lose paradigm, as if there is only one party that is enjoying and proactively wanting the experience, then your opinion on this issue would make sense, otherwise your opinion is rather unfounded and fallacious. 

The fact is that nobody owes anybody a relationship or sex for that matter, and that is the implication when you think a person is an ''asshole'' for not having a relationship after sex. That's completely devoid of any sense. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[mmKay]

@blessedlion1993 just my opinion.

I dont think you did anything wrong. It's called spontaneity. If you honestly didn't pre-plan fucking and then ignoring her and just allowed yourself to go along with your emotions in the moment it's okay. It's actually really challenging to embody that level of spontaneity. 

You two just happened to organically click and the man-woman nature took over.

You had commonalites from moment 1, both had free time, both are single and open to explore new experiences with a stranger, which is wonderful. 

If she had texted you " Thank you for this wonderful spontaneous experience " I'm sure you'd follow up. But she also didn't and expected you to do everything. Which is fine but she also did zero follow up. 

Realize that the overarching big picture of this experience is positive. You learned that you need to hone in your communication skills . You both enjoyed eachother . She may perhaps be more closed to strangers now but that's not all on you. The lesson is not to be more closed but more open in communication and expectations. It may be difficult for her to grasp that but now she has the chance to stumble upon this insight, as otherwise you would have let her reading that book, you two would have never connected and this thread and all the insights generated wouldn't exist. 

Don't be afraid to do it again. Allways as genuine as possible. 

[somegirl]

4 hours ago, mmKay said:

Which is fine but she also did zero follow up. 

It is expected that a guy sends follow up message the next morning after sex. Also, he was pursuing her, not other way around.

[Bob Seeker]

14 hours ago, blessedlion1993 said:

I wasn't just pumping and dumping like a club ONS, or we could at least be friends, she was good company

Based on this I could bang whoever I want after building intimacy, as long as I text them the next day and then just act like a friend.

Sounds too good to be true. I think she’ll end up feeling shitty about herself in the end.

@blessedlion1993 I’m not picking on you, I’m trying to figure this out for myself. 
 

Dating seems pretty fundamentally selfish

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Bob Seeker

[Bob Seeker]

11 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

 

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In that case he used her for sex and was rather an asshole.

If you look at sex from the point of view of a win - lose paradigm, as if there is only one party that is enjoying and proactively wanting the experience, then your opinion on this issue would make sense, otherwise your opinion is rather unfounded and fallacious. 

 

The issue with this is that men are more likely than women to be able to enjoy intimacy, connection and sex and then just move on. Women are wired differently. There is actually more of a conflicting set of interests than you are giving credit.

even if she thinks she wants sex, you couldn’t just take her word for it. You wouldn’t feed your children a McDonald’s diet just because they ask for it.

pornstars will say they want to be pornstars until they find out what love is and regret ever having been a porn star. That’s what happened to Mia Khalifa.

a pickup mindset will always be less than true because dating is survival, so it’s always gonna bite you in the ass. That’s how reality is designed, to cause you to have to transcend survival or face the consequences.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Bob Seeker

[Shin]

On 14/10/2021 at 5:43 AM, blessedlion1993 said:

I live in Peru, in a spiritual place. Many people here are doing plant medicine and psychedelics.

 

I met a woman at a restaurant and she was alone so i just sat with her and we went deep into a conversation about meditation and different spiritual practices.

 

Minutes turned to hours and i invited her to my place to listen to music, do breathwork, and snuff (an amazonian tobacoo you blow up your nose)

She came over and we did some yoga, breathwork, tantra eye gazing and self inquiry and just chatted about emotions and life. It was beautiful, and this is not that untypical where i live, everyone is into tantra and consciousness and psychedelics.

 

I asked her if she wanted to cuddle and she said yes and that turned into making out and sex. After the sex (not right after but maybe like 15 min after) i realized we had been hanging out for like 6-7 hours and i just wanted to be alone to recharge (im an introvert). so i said i was just going to go to sleep and she was cool with it and left. 

I checked in to see how she was doing a few days later and she was ghosting me then said she felt used. I apologized that she felt that way, and that it wasn't my intention. 

Was i an asshole? I seriously want to know. I feel like i kinda was, but also was fucking tired and wanted to sleep

Why didn't you send a message the next day ? Why did you wait 2/3 days ?

Also I don't think you're an asshole, an asshole wouldn't feel guilt, and certainly wouldn't self reflect on what he has done to improve

Edited October 15, 2021 by Shin