Is it possible to do pickup without hurting women’s feelings?

[Bob Seeker]

As far as I know, women are typically looking for a relationship, not a one night stand. True? Does the man have to sort of cheat the woman and trick her into thinking he really likes her only to demonstrate otherwise after he sleeps with her?

is there a way this works where both parties win?

wouldn’t the man making himself high value only make her want a relationship more?

If you were to be honest about just wanting to sleep with her, is that not a turn-off to her?

I am a pretty harmless person. I don’t kill bugs. It wouldn’t be easy for me to do pickup with confidence because of this.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Bob Seeker

[Thunder Kiss]

Well that’s the problem isn’t it. 
yeah, you can tell them upfront that you only want sex, then they can decide if that’s what they want.  But when games are played there will always be collateral damage along the way and hearts will be broken.  So if you don’t want to hurt people or play with peoples emotions then just be honest. 
the thing is though, you have to date many people to meet the right person, and sometimes you do genuinely think you like someone but then it doesn’t work out or whatever.  But everyone is usually hurting each other unconsciously and the ones getting hurt are the ones who grow more. 
so for every person who hurts you there will be others who were hurt by you. 
best thing you can do to if you want a clear consciousness is be honest, communicate with people and make it a priority not to ghost or use people.  

Edited October 12, 2021 by Thunder Kiss

[zazen]

I guess it comes down to dating with integrity and being honest. Although, most women don’t want to come across as easy or to be used either so saying all you want is sex will get shut down a lot. 
 

At the same time, to become better and find out what you like/dislike, how to have and maintain a relationship etc you have to go through much dating experience, but in doing so you know it can cause emotional heart break. In the past there were social/religious conventions and women’s financial dependency on men which kept them together, but not so today. And no man really wants a woman to be with them grudgingly in a slave/master dynamic.

 

If we know that for women, sleeping with many people can have negative affects on them should we do that in order to get better to finally have the happy relationship we want? Aren’t we contributing to an emotionally wounded society that we’ll have to live in/raise kids in and so ruining the very society we want to have those kids in or live in, in the future?

 

Amongst the red pill community there’s a catchphrase to ‘enjoy the decline’ but they are living in that very society themselves, which they don’t seem to see. Maybe the middle way would be to date around but not sleep with everyone as to minimise emotional trauma. And if you really want to get good at sex to please your future relationship go the escort route so your not a rookie or scared of sex when you finally get to it. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by zazen

[something_else]

8 hours ago, Bob Seeker said:

As far as I know, women are typically looking for a relationship, not a one night stand. True? Does the man have to sort of cheat the woman and trick her into thinking he really likes her only to demonstrate otherwise after he sleeps with her?

is there a way this works where both parties win?

wouldn’t the man making himself high value only make her want a relationship more?

If you were to be honest about just wanting to sleep with her, is that not a turn-off to her?

I am a pretty harmless person. I don’t kill bugs. It wouldn’t be easy for me to do pickup with confidence because of this.

 

It sounds like you have an idea of how a typical women thinks in your head here, kind of like a strawman I suppose. Different women want different things

Dating of any kind is basically a game of hurt feelings on both sides. It's impossible to date without hurting feelings and getting your feelings hurt. Rejection, miscommunication, frustration, game playing, all happen to both men and women and they all feel like shit. Most of the hurt feelings are temporary and just part of the game of dating, it's ultimately pretty harmless. Trust that women are adults capable of handling this, as are you

What you absolutely don't do, of course, is traumatically hurt women which comes from the really nasty stuff like lying, cheating, heavy manipulation, controlling behaviour etc. etc. that you might often see from some toxic pickup guys. It sounds like you don't have an issue with this anyway

I wouldn't worry too much about any of this tbh, just go and socialise with women, you'll get a feel for it pretty quick. If you want to attract women 'consciously' so to speak, you're aiming to be a bit edgy and cheeky without being an actual asshole

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by something_else

[Bob Seeker]

Thanks for the answers y’all.
 

 

 

[Federico del pueblo]

On 12.10.2021 at 3:33 AM, Bob Seeker said:

As far as I know, women are typically looking for a relationship, not a one night stand. True? Does the man have to sort of cheat the woman and trick her into thinking he really likes her only to demonstrate otherwise after he sleeps with her?

Not necessarily true. They are not as determined as men to have a one night stand, but many of them are definitely open for it. They may say that - generally - they are looking for a relationship, but that doesn't mean that they are not fine with having ONSs or more casual relationships until they find their guy for a long-term relationship.

If you ask them then they might not admit the above mentioned things, but this has to do with judgement, reputation and so on (but of course some women ONLY want long-term relationships).

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is there a way this works where both parties win?

Yes. With women who are ok with more loose relationships (friends with benefits or whatever) it can be perceived as a win for both sides. And these women exist.

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wouldn’t the man making himself high value only make her want a relationship more?

Not necessarily. It could just as well make her want to have sex with him. In this case it feels validating for her (it's a win), when the guy seems to be more "high value" (laughable term in my eyes ?) and she will happily sleep with him and then think "that was awesome, and it just so happened".

Surely later on she may still want to get him in a relationship, but that's another story. If he then clearly communicates that he doesn't want to be in a relationship she may continue sleeping with him whatsoever, until she finds her relationship guy.

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If you were to be honest about just wanting to sleep with her, is that not a turn-off to her?

Potentially, but not necessarily. It's more likely to turn her off if she feels judged or shamed for being sexual ("slut shaming"), which is the case for many but not all women. The women who are completely ok with their sexual desires won't have a problem with it, but with them it's also not necessary to even communicate this, the two of you just end up in bed and from there you see where things go.

Though, you're sexual desire shouldn't be so unconditional ("just want to sleep with her"), even if she's hot. Typically a girl still wants to feel like she had to convince you of her, and that you wouldn't just have sex with any other girl and have some standards etc.

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I am a pretty harmless person

That's a belief. It may be "true" as of now, but it's not set in stone. You can become a little bit edgy too. Don't try to be completely different immediately. Just slowly shift in another direction (if you want to).

 

[Terell Kirby]

There are definitely toxic ways to do pickup.

Essentially, you want to be honest with women about your willingness to commit.

If you plan on keeping her around after having sex, she’ll eventually bring up the status of the relationship and where it’s headed.

It’s important you don’t lie about your feelings on this point…a lot of guys mess up here.

[Spiral]

On 12/10/2021 at 3:33 AM, Bob Seeker said:

If you were to be honest about just wanting to sleep with her, is that not a turn-off to her?

Vagueness like “not looking for anything serious”  is less of a turn off. However a lot of girls just want some dick as well. People hurt themselves or others when they sleep around. Harm reduction is mostly kind bonus.

Don’t get me wrong, sleep around but don’t assume that there is a way to it completely harmlessly.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Spiral

[zazen]

Dropping off (leaving women better than you met them) is as important a skill as picking up if you want to do it more morally. Although in the dating game, isn't it harmful for women to sleep around anyway? I know there is social stigma and no one should be judged in these old ways as its politically incorrect, but is it actually factually correct that it can be damaging? Open sexuality is pushed now days a lot, what will the consequences be in our coming decades.

The red pill has this concept of alpha widow where a women compares the past alphas or fun guys they used to sleep with and carry that emotional baggage to the next relationship ruining it and the pair bonding ability with the next guy, how much of this is true or pure scare mongering negativity? I guess as a woman ages and wants commitment from a nicer less fun guy but who has stability its a reality check and she goes with this type of guy out of need to mother children, but then ends up bored and divorces not wanting to feel the pressure of having to have sex with someone she doesn't get attraction towards anymore.

Edited October 13, 2021 by zazen

[Leo Gura]

The reality is that dating, period, creates hurt on both sides, because both parties are playing survival games and trying to get their own needs met first. Hearts get broken.

But, harm reduction is possible with more conscious and ethical methods.

Some situations are so obviously casual that little or no expectation is placed by either side for stuff beyond sex. This is a true win-win, but it can be hard to find that scenario. You'll mostly find it at parties and clubs, or places like Vegas. People fly to Vegas just to fuck. But this is not how most dating works.

When it comes to casual sex, that game is skewed in the guy's favor because the girl has more to lose and is more likely to get hurt.

The problem is that if you tell a girl before sex that this will just be casual, 95%+ girls will not sleep with you. Hence it is suicidal to utter such words. Even if the girl wants just casual sex she cannot allow herself or her friends to know that explicitly otherwise she is cast as the biggest slut in town.

But still, it is possible to go to bars and clubs in a somewhat ethical manner. You can reduce collateral damage by screening girls more and basically getting laid less. You can aim to mostly sleep with girls who you would be happy to develp a connection with beyond sex.

But if all you're doing is hunting for new pussy each night and trying to maximize your lay rate, I don't see how this is ethical. You will hurt a lot of girls, and in order to keep doing it you will have to lie to yourself about it, which will place a ceiling on how conscious you can become in life.

Fundamentally, chasing after lots of sex, or the hottest sex, is a low consciousness behavior and mindset. There is no magic bullet around this fact, sorry to say. Which is why the most conscious people have the least sex.

So what do you want more, sex or consciousness? Tough decisions! Be careful fooling yourself that you can have it all.

Doing pickup consciously is quite challenging. But you can do it. I recommend you do. You will grow like mad. But it will hurt like a bitch.

Remember, dating involves some hurt feelings. That is the cost of entry. Just seek to reasonably minimize those costs.

[zazen]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reality is that dating, period, creates hurt on both sides, because both parties are playing survival games and trying to get their own needs met first. Hearts get broken.

But, harm reduction is possible with more conscious and ethical methods.

Some situations are so obviously casual that little or no expectation is placed by either side for stuff beyond sex. This is a true win-win, but it can be hard to find that scenario. You'll mostly find it at parties and clubs, or places like Vegas. People fly to Vegas just to fuck. But this is not how most dating works.

When it comes to casual sex, that game is skewed in the guy's favor because the girl has more to lose and is more likely to get hurt.

The problem is that if you tell a girl before sex that this will just be casual, 95%+ girls will not sleep with you. Hence it is suicidal to utter such words. Even if the girl wants just casual sex she cannot allow herself or her friends to know that explicitly otherwise she is cast as the biggest slut in town.

But still, it is possible to go to bars and clubs in a somewhat ethical manner. You can reduce collateral damage by screening girls more and basically getting laid less. You can aim to mostly sleep with girls who you would be happy to develp a connection with beyond sex.

But if all you're doing is hunting for new pussy each night and trying to maximize your lay rate, I don't see how this is ethical. You will hurt a lot of girls, and in order to keep doing it you will have to lie to yourself about it, which will place a ceiling on how conscious you can become in life.

Fundamentally, chasing after lots of sex, or the hottest sex, is a low consciousness behavior and mindset. There is no magic bullet around this fact, sorry to say. Which is why the most conscious people have the least sex.

So what do you want more, sex or consciousness? Tough decisions! Be careful fooling yourself that you can have it all.

Doing pickup consciously is quite challenging. But you can do it. I recommend you do. You will grow like mad. But it will hurt like a bitch.

Remember, dating involves some hurt feelings. That is the cost of entry. Just seek to reasonably minimize those costs.

So much clarity. Tough decision it is. Iv found that even just interacting with the opposite sex can be enjoyable if done consciously, enjoy the other aspects of women not just their body, but their mind, perspective, femininity. We don't have to try sleep with every one we interact with which can cause a lot of hurt, but can still enjoy them for more than just their body and feel revitalised by it. This is obviously not what most people are able to do, but more of us on this forum probably can. 

[AriSujan]

@Bob Seeker Nevertheless you still can still learn pickup artistry...just don"t go past the LMR phase with girls you aren't that into!

[Bob Seeker]

Fueg

[TripleFly]

Yes it's totally possible.

When you know she's sleeping with you. Tell her that you're not interesting in relationships, you are just looking to become a better player. 

And if it's sex you're looking to become better at. Go with escorts, hell ask them to teach you.

If you want to keep your confidence then every time you are about to betray your integrity, be honest with your fellow.

[Shin]

30 minutes ago, TripleFly said:

Yes it's totally possible.

When you know she's sleeping with you. Tell her that you're not interesting in relationships, you are just looking to become a better player. 

And if it's sex you're looking to become better at. Go with escorts, hell ask them to teach you.

If you want to keep your confidence then every time you are about to betray your integrity, be honest with your fellow.

That works with maybe 25% of women.

The other either still sleep with you cause they are so attracted they can't help themselves or tell you to fuck off.

Sex is way more emotional for a woman and they bond extremely fast with it, so what you're saying only holds true for a minority of women, or certain women in a very specific phase of their lives, which you can't know for sure beforehand unless you're friend with that woman.

You can't do pick up without hurting women feelings, the point of pick up is to deceive and fuck without getting into relationships lol

Edited October 15, 2021 by Shin

[TripleFly]

1 minute ago, Shin said:

That works with maybe 25% of women.

The other either still sleep with you cause they are so attracted they can't help themselves or tell you to fuck off.

Sex is way more emotional for a woman and they bond extremely fast with it, so what you're saying only holds true for a minority of women, or certain women in a very specific phase of their lives.

As we all know the bitter truth is that free sex is an invitation for suffering. It's ignorant.

It sounded to me, from my perception of things that he is an honest guy that doesn't want anyone to feel cheated or misled.

So the highest truth in this case is simply to be honest.

He wants to do pick up? Then he can go do pick up and be honest about his intentions. Yes he will lose most women, but he will keep his integrity.

Which is why I gave option #2, go to an escort. You get sex, you can learn more about sex, and you keep your integrity! 

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, TripleFly said:

Which is why I gave option #2, go to an escort. You get sex, you can learn more about sex, and you keep your integrity!

Prostition is not high integrity. It harms those women more than any kind of pickup or ONS.

[AriSujan]

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It harms those women more than any kind of pickup or ONS.

@Leo Gura How come it harm those women...it helps them to earn a living, I guess!

[Joel3102]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Prostition is not high integrity. It harms those women more than any kind of pickup or ONS.

What do you think about the stage green glorification of sex work, escorting, onlyfans etc 

 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

What do you think about the stage green glorification of sex work, escorting, onlyfans etc

It's better than demonizing it. But glorifying it is also not good.

Just ask yourself, Would you want your daughter doing sex work?

There's your answer.