Bloodwork Thread ?

[mmKay]

Screenshot from the " Start Here " section.

 

The purpose of this thread is to recompile FAQ's , resources, recomendations , tips and tricks about bloodwork .

 

I decided to get tested for vitamin D few days ago (42€ here in Spain) . The results came and I'm LOW. What's the best form of Vitamin D  supplement that I can take? I do live in a super sunny area but I intuit that I'd have to sit in the sun for 2 hours a day for a year to compensate for my deficit.

Got recommended this from a trusty source .

Liquid vitamin D3

 

Thyroid seems fine?.  (57€)

 

So I want to get checked for all vitamins and minerals. I guess I need to get a bloodtest again ? Is there a way to maybe pick your finger with a machine and get tested at home ? ( maybe I'm talking sci-fi stuff, but would be cool if that existed )

Is a cortisol test the proper thing to do to check for proper adrenal gland function?

 

What other tests would you consider to be important?

I'd like to get tested for mold toxicity as well. Got a record of living in moldy spaces.

Edited October 11, 2021 by mmKay

[Focus]

Get any Vitamin D supplement 10,000mcg and take it 5 times a week(skip Thursday and Friday) , you can also benefit from taking injections every 2 weeks for two or three months then do another test, my vitamin d level was 5 and I did that

[mmKay]

@Focus ty

 

16 hours ago, mmKay said:

Is a cortisol test the proper thing to do to check for proper adrenal gland function?

[...] Blood tests are often not very informative, as they usually only test once in the morning.

Our adrenals have a rhythm of cortisol production that starts in the middle of the night (around 3am) to prepare us for the day. It increases throughout the wee hours, peaking in the morning around 8am or so, then slowly falls during the rest of the morning and early afternoon.

Cortisol levels should be lowest around bedtime (10p+). Some people may have high cortisol at night that affects their sleep that would not necessarily be reflected on an 8am blood cortisol test.

For this reason, a 4x salivary cortisol test is recommended. Canaryclub.org often has the best pricing, and ships internationally.

[Michael569]

 

17 hours ago, mmKay said:

What's the best form of Vitamin D  supplement that I can take? I do live in a super sunny area but I intuit that I'd have to sit in the sun for 2 hours a day for a year to compensate for my deficit.

I'd start with 5000 IU for 3 months and then get retested. You want to get into the 70s and even 80s. If 5000 is not enough after 3 months you may consider doing 10,000 for another month and then getting retested again. 

It seems thyroid results are alright although if you suspect issues in here, thyroid antibodies would be useful. 

 

17 hours ago, mmKay said:

I'd like to get tested for mold toxicity as well

there are no reliable tests for this yet. There is bunch of small mycotoxin tests but nothing comprehensive with any decent evidence available just yet. 

17 hours ago, mmKay said:

So I want to get checked for all vitamins and minerals. I guess I need to get a bloodtest again ? Is there a way to maybe pick your finger with a machine and get tested at home ?

the problem with most mineral and vitamin tests is that they only show serum (blood) levels. So for example active B12 shows how much of it you have circulating around the blood. It does not show how much you have in tissues. For that you would need either methylmalonic acid or holo-transcobalamin. Both need to be purchased separately. 

Another example is B6. Serum B6 is unreliable and you would need specialist tests called  glutamic-oxaloacetic-transaminase in the erythrocytes (EGOT). This is a specialist tests that needs to be purchased separately but is a good indication of tissue B6. 

What I'm trying to say is that serum level tests showing minerals and vitamins are...well ...interesting..... but mostly unreliable and mostly useless because they do not show what is happening in tissues. 

17 hours ago, mmKay said:

Is a cortisol test the proper thing to do to check for proper adrenal gland function?

serum cortisol is good if you are at the extreme spectrum of adrenal failure called Addison's Disease or adrenal overdrive called Cushing's Disease. For everything else salivary cortisol test is preferable.  This is a functional tests and a doctors don't usually do it because they are mostly interested in the diagnosis of either of the condition above which most people don't have. 

17 hours ago, mmKay said:

What other tests would you consider to be important?

i'd say it depends on what are you trying to do? What are your symptoms or what is your goal? 

 

 

[mmKay]

Thanks for the anwsers Michael.  You're allways on point.

 

Quote

I'd start with 5000 IU for 3 months and then get retested. You want to get into the 70s and even 80s. If 5000 is not enough after 3 months you may consider doing 10,000 for another month and then getting retested again. 

 

5000 IU / day for 3 months, right? I ended up purchasing this vitamin D supplement. IDK if there is much difference between different kinds of vitamin D supplement though.

51 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

The problem with most mineral and vitamin tests is that they only show serum (blood) levels. 

So what would be a more accurate way of figuring out what micronutrients may I be missing? Analyzing what foods am I eating and deducting possible insufficiencies by contrasting it with the full list of micronutrients, vitamins and minerals that exist?

 

51 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

i'd say it depends on what are you trying to do? What are your symptoms or what is your goal? 

Vitality. Feeling mentally sharp and physically energetic. There are many factors for this but for now im tackling the nutritional facet.

I do deal with ocasional brain fog, lack of energy and sluggishness but im getting better after incorporating self made water kefir and organic ground beef into my diet.

Edited October 12, 2021 by mmKay

[Michael569]

58 minutes ago, mmKay said:

5000 IU / day for 3 months, right? I ended up purchasing this vitamin D supplement. IDK if there is much difference between different kinds of vitamin D supplement though

Looks good. Yeah, try 3 months then check again. You can always order one of those skin prick tests at home if you wanna know if the value is increasing after a month or so. The difference is between D3 and D2 and then some D3 is vegan and some is not. Your products looks like a good one. 

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

So what would be a more accurate way of figuring out what micronutrients may I be missing? Analyzing what foods am I eating and deducting possible insufficiencies by contrasting it with the full list of micronutrients, vitamins and minerals that exist?

Try using cronometer.com for a week. Create a free account and track 100% of what you eat for a week. Then assess critically and see if you are chronically hitting under RDI for any nutrients. This would be a start. If you hit all 100% and still experience some sort of symptoms then those should be investigated further. 

1 hour ago, mmKay said:

Vitality. Feeling mentally sharp and physically energetic. There are many factors for this but for now im tackling the nutritional facet.

I think diet, exercise, sleep and stress management will be of utmost importance here. Put a full focus on that for a month and if nothing changes, a different strategy may be needed or maybe some more tests. 

Are you restricting/eliminating any particular food groups? 

 

[Superfluo]

@Michael569 What about adding vitamin K2 to the vitamin D3 supplementation? I see many supplements combining these two vitamins, and I've heard K2 helps calcification of bones and prevents arteries from clotting caused by excessive calcium depositing in them, but I found nothing comprehensive online about that. 

[Michael569]

@Superfluo i have to admit i need to dig deeper into literature to be able to answer those questions. From what i know K2 along Vit D is important when D is being taken for bone health and osteoporosis prevention/reduction.

I don't think it is necessary to take K2 for maintenance since it is super easy to get from diet but i might be wrong on this. 

[mmKay]

Little something on K2. Do more research and apply discerment. 

https://youtu.be/633-oTKJEFI

Looks like it's only contained in fermented foods

Edited October 13, 2021 by mmKay

[mmKay]

22 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Try using cronometer.com for a week. Track 100% of what you eat.

Are you restricting/eliminating any particular food groups? 

 

I eat as high quality eggs as I can get my hands on, organic canned lentils ( i puree them in a blender) , organic white rice and about 400g of organic ground beef (soon to be 100 % grass fed) , About 400g of diced sauteed onion. Sometimes I add in a jar of organic pureed tomato.

Sometimes a slice of organic cheese / some organic diced bell peppers. 

I snack on fruit. Bananas, melon, mango. dates, figs. 75%+ organic dark cocolate. 

And I chug the DIY water kefir. About 1'5 liters a day. 

This has been my every day meal for about 4 months.  And I seem to be getting all the nutrients ( I supplement vitamin C and magnesium) 

Only problem I see is that I may be getting extremely high ammounts of iron and since I'm a dude and I don't menstruate this may make my liver into and iron brick(?) .

I heard vitamim A ( retinol) and a proper zinc to copper ratio is required to regulate it. If that's the case I should be ok. 

What I avoid : Any not natural ingredients: colorants, preservatives... Drinking cows milk, and I used to avoid wheat and sugar like the devil but now with the water kefir I have accquired the digestive capability of a volcano and they do nothing to me besides giving me a few pimples  ( used to have leaky gut, IBS, possibly pre-diabetes and possible a little candida , carbs gave me the worst brain fog) 

 

[Michael569]

@mmKay thanks for response, 

2 hours ago, mmKay said:

And I chug the DIY water kefir. About 1'5 liters a day.

I gotta say, that's some serious commitment  Is this the Frank Tufano thingy? 

2 hours ago, mmKay said:

Only problem I see is that I may be getting extremely high ammounts of iron and since I'm a dude and I don't menstruate this may make my liver into and iron brick(?) .

Yeah, possibly. You could test your iron couple times a year and see how you'r getting on. 

2 hours ago, mmKay said:

I heard vitamim A ( retinol) and a proper zinc to copper ratio is required to regulate it. If that's the case I should be ok. 

It's a bit more complicated than that in case you were eating large amounts of organs for example but keeping your Zinc levels at a bay helps. It wouldn't protect you from retinol overdose however iron overload would be more concern where organ meats are involved. For example with something like liver, I'd be very careful with going above 25-50 grams a day but I know people like Frank would disagree. 

 

But generally from the limited info I have, I'm missing more plant foods & definitely more fibre. The diet seems a bit too animal heavy which takes care of some nutrients but could be excessively pro-inflammatory, starve out some fibre-dependant colonies, take away some energy and mental clarity with that carb avoidance and generally be a bit limiting. Also animal-heavy diet can (based on observational studies) tip you over towards cancer risk in your 50s and I'm not saying this as some sort of vegan propaganda but generally as evidence-based information. Especially beef has been petty unanimously been associated with increased cancer risk across systematic trials and meta-analyses. Of course the quality of it matters. 

But that's not a criticism of your diet or anything like that, more of an observation based on the above. Take it or leave it We are all on a different journey. 

 

[undeather]

Quote

Is a cortisol test the proper thing to do to check for proper adrenal gland function?

Cortisol as a single parameter is very limiting when it comes to explanatory power. 
Sometimes useful as a rough screening tool for very rare diseases of the hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis.

If you want to really check your adrenal function, this is what you should do:

Saliva samples:
- Cortisol (early in the morning: 0-1,5h)
- Cortisol (after 1,5-3h)
- Cortisol (after 3-6h)
- Cortisol (after 6-9)
- Cortisol (after 9-15h)

- DHEA (early in the morning)
- DHEA (after 12 hours)
- Cortisol/DHEA-quotient (mornign/12h)

If I find time this weekend, I can go into more detail on why you should do this but I am very busy at the moment.
The other stuff was already correctly adressed by the other members.
Take care

Edited October 13, 2021 by undeather

[mmKay]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:30 PM, Michael569 said:

You can always order one of those skin prick tests at home if you wanna know if the value is increasing after a month or so.

Hey I just re-read this thread and damn this is a quite nice life hack. Got any more of these up your digital sleeves?

[Michael569]

@mmKay maybe  What sort of info are you looking for? 

[mmKay]

@Michael569 Maybe your favorite nootropic cocktail for focus and mental performance, but actually I'm open for surprises ?

[Michael569]

22 hours ago, mmKay said:

Maybe your favorite nootropic cocktail for focus and mental performance, but actually I'm open for surprises

I don't really use nootropics anymore. I've tried a few with mediocre (often none) results.  When I tested Maca on a hill where I practice my hill-speed-drills, I was able to run a little bit further before full exhaustion...but could have been a placebo or coincidence. I find it interesting to review research on nootropics in my blog so maybe check that out once a month for some new updates. 

But like overall, in general consensus, I am not convinced nootropics deserve the attention they are getting and they definitely do not stand up to the marketing hype since most of the claims made by marketers are based on in-vitro research. 

At least I don't believe that at the moment from what I've tried, read and researched. They are......interesting.....but the benefits are often just not there and it comes down to placebo. 

The ultimate nootropic remains outdoor exercise for me, kinda something like I did in that Youtube video, you can check it out in my second link. 

[Superfluo]

@Michael569 

On 13/10/2021 at 10:38 AM, Michael569 said:

i have to admit i need to dig deeper into literature to be able to answer those questions. From what i know K2 along Vit D is important when D is being taken for bone health and osteoporosis prevention/reduction.

I don't think it is necessary to take K2 for maintenance since it is super easy to get from diet but i might be wrong on this. 

I'm a little late, I know, but I was looking for research on K2 and D3, and I've found this article:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49681076_Vitamins_D_and_K_as_Pleiotropic_Nutrients_Clinical_Importance_to_the_Skeletal_and_Cardiovascular_Systems_and_Preliminary_Evidence_for_Synergy

In the paragraph titled: "Vitamin K-dependent Proteins Support Calcium Homeostasis" the author says that vitamin K (K2 too I guess) is a cofactor for the conversion of some proteins in vitamin-K-dependent (VKD) proteins, which MGP and Gas6 are part of. Here some of their functions:

 

MGP is the VKD protein most closely linked to blood vessel wall health. It operates predominantly in the extracellular matrix of soft tissues (vascular,

heart, lung, kidney, cartilage) to down-regulate calcium deposition.

Gas6 (named for its gene, growth arrest-specific gene 6) has homeostatic support functions, growth factor properties, modulates inflammation, and facilitates immune disposal of dead cells. Gas6 is also linked to down-regulation of atherosclerotic plaque formation.

 

So it makes sense for K2 to be used along D3 when you are D3 deficient (in supplements), since an increased intake of D3 causes better and increased absorption of calcium. I know that K2 is commonly found in vegetables, so there's not a risk of K2 deficiency if you eat healthy, but increased calcium could lead to an increased need of K2. What do you think about it?

I've read an amazon review of a D3+K2 supplement by a guy who said that taking a D3 supplement gave him headaches, but when he switched to a D3+K2 supplement it made his headache go away. Don't know if this is true.

[Superfluo]

@Michael569 bump 

[Michael569]

@Superfluo

This is the only decent quality human systematic review & meta-analysis I was able to find on the topic https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32219282/

Their results show potential benefit of taking K alongside D if the aim is Bone Mineral Density, for example in the elderly with bone mineral loss. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find the full study, we could try to contact the author and get a copy...usually that's the easiest way to get it. Not sure if they compared with a group that took only vit D to see the difference. Just because D + K2 showed an effect, does not mean D on its own wouldn't. Also, we don't know anything about the population but it would be safe to assume this is a geriatric population as bone mineral density studies are rarely done on young people in e therapeutic setting. 

Also this is not the biggest study (971 subjects), and you would expect way more research into this topic if the effects was to be significant, so I'm kinda surprised how little there is. You also have to wonder why that is? Compare this to the amount of data on calcium with relation to bone health where we actually know that there is a significant effect in some cases, maybe it is that K2 just isn't as useful. 

At the moment, I have no reason to believe that everyone needs to take K2 alongside Vit D if we are talking about maintenance, no therapeutic supplementation. K2 seems to be easy to get in the diet or to be made internally  and if it indeed was an issue, we would have seen developmental issues in infants and food fortification with K2 would have been done a long time ago the same way we fortify foods with B-vitamins to prevent Pellagra, Berri-Berri in general population or spina bifida in newborns. Also, for the same reason, you see products switching from butter and margarine to plant oils because evidence shows us that it works to reduce the CVD onset and all-cause mortality. If K2 was as significant for population well-being, fortification would have been administered on a mass scale in some way. 

So it is that either epidemiology hasn't caught up yet due to lack of evidence or the thing is that K2, for other than bone-loss patients, has no real therapeutic value to be taken alongside vitamin D as dietary intake is sufficient for most people even at the lowest quadrants of intake. 

But if it makes you feel safer, by all means, take it There is probably no harm as long as you are not on warfarin or heparin. 

[Superfluo]

@Michael569 Thank you very much for the reply!!!