I build a lot of sexual tension and trust but she leaves

[Etherial Cat]

The window to talk or ask her on another date was before you guys said goodbye.

Now you'll show confusion and inconsistency.

[Leo Gura]

One thing you should get in the habit of doing is seeding the next date towards the end of your first date, and gauging her receptiveness/enthusiasm.

You gotta develop some subtle ways of checking in with her to see how much she's digging you.

[PurpleTree]

maybe she was drunk/tipsy and when she sobered up and thought about the night she was unsure so she said the friend thing

but if you would have just proceeded the way you did before it probably would have worked out

[Vrubel]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

One thing you should get in the habit of doing is seeding the next date towards the end of your first date, and gauging her receptiveness/enthusiasm.

When we were leaving my place she got (very slightly) disappointed because she missed some plants I said to her that she will see them next time.

Also when I escorted her to the station I purposefully turned away from her but she kept standing close to me, right by my chest.  

The only worrisome thing that she said to me is that she considers herself just an  "average level of fun". Maybe she was being vulnerable but usually, girls will boast and qualify themselves in front of guys they like. But maybe this is just nonsense. 

@Harlen Kelly @Leo Gura

 

Can I send her this (but in Dutch):

(Name), I don't normally do this and it's a huge exception, but since we both really had a good time together, I'm willing to continue our relationship as friends and meet up as simply friends

Edited October 11, 2021 by Vrubel

[Harlen Kelly]

18 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

(Name), I don't normally do this and it's a huge exception, but since we both really had a good time together, I'm willing to continue our relationship as friends and meet up as simply friends

No, no, the tone of the message is excessively serious, there is no light-heartedness on that. Dating is a game, you can get serious after having a formal relationship. 

Send the first one you wrote. 

18 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Also when I escorted her to the station I purposefully turned away from her but she kept standing close to me, right by my chest.  

I am very certain she was down to fuck that night. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Vrubel]

@Harlen Kelly

Oke, I will send the simplified message tonight

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

I don't normally do this and it's a huge exception, but since we both really had a good time together, I'm willing to continue our relationship as friends and meet up as simply friends

That's horrible. Don't ever use the phrase "just friends". Keep the sexual polarity / intent. If she doesn't want it, let her reject you on account of it. But don't make yourself her gay lapdog. It needs to be implicitly clear that you have sexual intent towards her, that you are not her gay friend. Don't compromise on that.

And way too formal too. This is not a business transaction.

"Hey gurl, let's hang out."

[Vrubel]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's horrible. Don't ever use the phrase "just friends". Keep the sexual polarity / intent. If she doesn't want it, let her reject you on account of it. But don't make yourself her gay lapdog. It needs to be implicitly clear that you have sexual intent towards her, that you are not her gay friend. Don't compromise on that.

And way too formal too. This is not a business transaction.

"Hey gurl, let's hang out."

Okey I will say to her:

Eey (name), Let's meet(;              (in Dutch)

 

The fact that we have said our goodbyes will make this comical and cheeky if she interprets it well. If I am lucky she will counter with her friends premise, then I will go along and say that for a time  we can meet as friends

Edited October 11, 2021 by Vrubel

[Hello from Russia]

Who cares man, women are not some rigid religious samurai warriors. They can turn their mood on a whim and then even deny that she perceived you as "just a friend". Women and feminine people can be chaotic, don't take their words as way too determined, women are spontaneous as fuck

Just go on another date with her, nail her to the wall and kiss her again (when it will be an appropriate thing to do so) 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Hello from Russia

[Vrubel]

@Harlen Kelly @Leo Gura

Update:

I sent her: Eey (name), let's meet up 

she replied with:

"I don't get it, so you do want to be friends?"

I want to reply:
I never do this but for you I can make an exception
or
Sure, let's meet as friends

 

(I will reply the next day)

Edited October 11, 2021 by Vrubel

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

@Harlen Kelly @Leo Gura

Update:

I sent her: Eey (name), let's meet up 

she replied with:

"I don't get it, so you do want to be friends?"

I want to reply:
I never do this but for you I can make an exception
or
Sure, let's meet as friends

 

(I will reply the next day)

I’m not really a fan of the first text you sent. But too late now I suppose.

Controversial opinion: I would have no problem keeping her as friend. Having female friends is great.

Guys who have been traumatized by “friend-zone” are so paranoid about this.

But here’s the key. If you’re going to be her friend, ACTUALLY be her friend.

By that I mean, don’t secretly be trying to hook up with her. Consciously and proactively make the decision for things to be platonic.

The problem is, that’s probably not what you want. You’re going to say “sure, let’s be friends!”  but secretly be resentful. Especially since it’s clear you obviously want something sexual with her and she is the one turning it down.

So you’ve got to do one or the other. Either really lean into the friends thing and own it. OR go the other way, and tell her you’re not interested in being friends, you have plenty of those already. And then move on if that’s what she really wants. 

[Etherial Cat]

@aurum Great advice. You are totally spot on the cause and effect chain . 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Heaven]

@Leo Gura This guy deserves a Nobel prize??

[Roy]

Pretty bad advice in this thread that's not going to serve you well or turn out like you think. Look dude the ship has sailed and you need to move on. It just didn't work out, whatever. Her loss not yours, and you said you had plenty of options right?

Don't waste your time once that magic has passed and the spark is gone. Respect it and don't keep pushing after her like a dog with a bruised ego. You didn't get what you want, so your gonna listen to these guys and act like a spoiled child that's entitled to something simply because you are working for it?

What do you think is going to happen. You've now said you want to be friends and maybe you hang out again. She is already either confused or her mind is actually made up and she's hoping for a genuine friend. But NOW you've got this malicious subconscious attitude that you're just going hang out with her and use the opportunity to strike like a snake in the grass to "force" her to make up her mind, or in the hopes that her feelings have changed and that you've got lucky. Let's assume on the off chance it works > you've now communicated you are a manipulator. What is more likely to happen though is you'll be turned down and she'll be pissed or feel really uncomfortable and you'll probably hurt her. Which is just a shitty thing to do. Consider would an actual friend do that?

I hate to be that guy but this kind of maneuvers are exactly the kind of thing that are teetering close to rape culture. Don't play fucking games with people like this and rationalize it because women can be "flaky" and "elusive".

You might think a "real" man should try to take what he wants and conquers. If you want to be a real man, you suck up the reality that was presented to you and move onwards.

 

[Etherial Cat]

@Roy

Thank you for writing this. 

A malicious subconscious attitude in relationship creates negative karma. When you manipulate someone with selfish motives, you assert a form of violence on them because you are biasing their choice. It's as simple as that.

If you manipulate someone, at the end of the day you are trying to game them. And that supposes that you don't have respect for their autonomy and free will. You treat the other as someone you can gain power on and exert it. And you are brushing off severe factors of potential incompatibility which are already present and might deploy later on, resulting in potential harm for yourself and the person who got manipulated. Add then the layers of self-deception you're going to tell yourself to justify your devilry, and tada! A very costly mistake.

Good luck basing a loving relationship on that. Because you've been acting exactly on the opposite direction.

For the little story: in contract law (civil law tradition) there are 3 elements which can make a contrat totally void based on a violation of consent. 1) The error  2) violence and 3) willful misrepresentation. Manipulation is exactly this: a willful misrepresentation of reality in order to trick someone who wouldn't consent into a deal they wouldn't make if they knew the truth behind. 

So I totally agree with Roy, consent issues start with how one overlooks it in rather minor situation like that. And what people hate about pick up is exactly this factor.

Healthy relationships should be based on detachment of outcome and based people's authentic choice without unsustainable artifices.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Harlen Kelly]

4 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Harlen Kelly @Leo Gura

Update:

I sent her: Eey (name), let's meet up 

she replied with:

"I don't get it, so you do want to be friends?"

I want to reply:
I never do this but for you I can make an exception
or
Sure, let's meet as friends

 

(I will reply the next day)

The second option seems fine. Then see what happens, it might surprise you. As I said, this has happened to me plenty of times and after meeting face to face, the chemistry flourished once again and we ended up hooking up. If you can't close, move on.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

@aurum Great advice. You are totally spot on the cause and effect chain . 

Thanks!

 

[Consilience]

14 hours ago, Vrubel said:

She sent me a whole respectful paragraph and offered to see each other again but as friends. I told her honestly that I am not interested in being friends and that we can meet and take it slowly from there. But she refused. We respectfully departed ways. 

Next time tell her you’re not interested in being just friends, but if she changes her mind let you know. If she’s going to pull away that hard, even attempting to take things more slowly is sub-communicating scarcity and neediness, especially if you haven’t slept together.

“Well hey, I’m not really interested in being just friends. If you change your mind, hit me up. If Im not seeing anyone seriously Id love to go out. Take care!”

You want to leave her hanging, not the other way around. 

Most guys would respond with either going along with just being friends (worst fail), or trying to persuade her to change her mind (fail). But not accepting her terms and walking away (pass) communicates masculinity. And overall, someone you really click with probably wont respond this way, but leaving the doors open can lead to all sorts of wild possibilities. You never know. 

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, aurum said:

So you’ve got to do one or the other. Either really lean into the friends thing and own it. OR go the other way, and tell her you’re not interested in being friends, you have plenty of those already. And then move on if that’s what she really wants. 

This. Not only are you owning your sexual intent towards her (ie being honest), you’re respecting what she said. A double win. 

If she seems like a good friend, yeah by all means! But if you’re really into her, but honest and don’t manipulate your way into getting her re-attracted. If that’s what it takes to get a certain girl interested… eh. I’d personally look for someone else. 

[Hello from Russia]

You can be friends and lovers as the same time, there can be no contradiction.

One alternative way to go is just to OWN the friend's frame completely and be passionate beyond it. Like YES, I want to be friends with you, of course! Then if you do attraction stuff well enough it can escalate further

Best relationships are anyway is when you're both very good friends and also passionate lovers. That's like the best possible place you can be and this is what actually escalates to a potential Marriage later