Murica

[Johnny Galt]

@Ry4n Crazy, thank you for sharing and speaking to this. I've been trying to spread the word, here in Canada. Best of luck through this! 

 

[Ry4n]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

@Ry4n Crazy, thank you for sharing and speaking to this. I've been trying to spread the word, here in Canada. Best of luck through this! 

 

Cheers!

[Harlen Kelly]

38 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

Most countries would hit the sufficient targets without it. If you treat them like an adult they'll be more receptive. 

There is no factual evidence of that, this is an assumption.

[Johnny Galt]

@Harlen Kelly how does that differ from those who said two weeks to flatten the curve?

those who are leading us, how has there assumptions/educated guesses scored so far? what's their track record? how's sweden's doing? and why are there more deaths by the jab in tawain then there have been deaths by covid? 

Also, what’s more overwhelming to hospitals? The unvaccinated (no doses, 1 dose, or 2 doses <14 days) patients, or firing the thousands of unvaccinated healthcare workers?

Edited October 21, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Harlen Kelly]

@Johnny Galt I'll try to address each conspiracy/piece of misinformation one by one, I doubt that will change your mind. 

1 - No international institution that's specialized in the treatment of COVID has asserted you can flatten the curve in 2 weeks because the flattening of a curve depends on demographic density of each country, tracking capabilities for people who are infected, etc. 

2 - what's their track record? Leading physicians that have dedicated 10+ years to the field of medicine, maybe ( just maybe ) they might have more credible knowledge regarding the pandemic and the virus than the average brain-rotten, anti-vax youtuber/social media personality.

3 - 98% of deaths are among the unvaccinated. 

4 - Only 1% of medical staff were opposed to the vaccine mandate, in other words, 99% of the medical staff remained after the mandate. 

5 - The vax has been extensively tested and has proven to be highly effective and safe, maybe not according to your favorite anti-intellectual, anti-vax social media personality, but certainly according to leading physicians across different countries. 

Spreading misinformation in regards to COVID is not allowed as per the forum guidelines. Spread dull-wittedness somewhere else. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Johnny Galt]

@Harlen Kelly

11 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Johnny Galt I'll try to address each conspiracy/piece of misinformation one by one, I doubt that will change your mind. 

1 - No international institution that's specialized in the treatment of COVID has asserted you can flatten the curve in 2 weeks because the flattening of a curve depends on demographic density of each country, tracking capabilities for people who are infected, etc. 

2 - Leading physicians that have dedicated 10+ years to the field of medicine, maybe ( just maybe ) they might have credible knowledge regarding the pandemic and the virus than the average brain-rotten, anti-vax youtuber/social media personality. 

3 - 98% of deaths are among the unvaccinated. 

4 - Only 1% of medical staff were opposed to the vaccine mandate, in other words, 99% of the medical staff remained after the mandate. 

Spreading misinformation in regards to COVID is not allowed according to the forum guidelines. Spread dull-wittedness somewhere else. 

 

"1" - Your correct. In reality, they said, "2 weeks to flatten the curve", and then "2 weeks to flatten the curve", and then "2 weeks to flatten the curve" and then

"2" - Are you actually claiming there's a sweeping consensus amongst the world's leading physicians?

"3" - When one is hospitalized, what qualifies as being "vaccinated"? - 1 jab? 2 jabs? and how many days after one or two jabs, are they classified as "vaccinated"? - I ask these questions for good reasons.

"4" - Where'd you get that number from, 1%? I'm seeing huge numbers, via many sources, that show's there's going to be great challenges ahead in health care and in many provinces and states, Ontario and New York in particular. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Harlen Kelly]

@Johnny Galt I will leave you with this. 

Open your mind to the possibility that maybe ( just maybe ) an epidemiologist might know more about pandemics and viruses than jonny the dullard who has a youtube channel ( just maybe ). 

What a revolutionary idea, ain't it.

[Johnny Galt]

@Harlen Kelly Again, are you stating that there is a sweeping consensus amongst the worlds leading epidemiologists? You've polled them? you've done a survey? If you have any sources, feel free to share! 

 

[Ry4n]

6 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

There is no factual evidence of that, this is an assumption.

Doesn't really matter, in principle letting the unvaccinated face the consequences and minding one's medical business is a healthier societal culture than medical apartheids. The public opinion around vaccines definitely changed after mandates were introduced which is a shame, I'm currently living that right now. It's totally fine if you don't believe my lived reality, because in due time this will be your experience also as totalitarianism expands beyond Melbourne, assuming there isn't sufficient pushback. Moving the focus towards healthier eating (Obesity is one of the biggest risk factors), exercise, proper ventilation ON TOP of the standard guidelines will yield best results.

Even if you were right that mandating it will speed hit us to the targets, that still sets a very dangerous precedent for the future of our medical privacy and basic human rights. To assert that such principles will be upheld following such events is simply naive; once it's gone it's possibly forever.

Coming from someone who's getting their second shot next week, please don't associate me with anti-vaxxers or misinformation spreaders. All need for control stems from fear, and I understand your fear and the moral justification to control behaviour through coercion, it comes from good intentions but it is ultimately misguided and we may only see the full ramifications of this for generations to come. 

At least in my specific case in the T capital of the world, mainstream media spread equal amounts of lies as the conservative conspiracy theorists, such as the idea that a young perfectly healthy individual will almost certainly die of covid, or that all protestors in Melbourne are neo nazis which is a flat out lie.  This creates frustration and confusion in the community that perpetuates the spreading of misinformation, thus if you're against it consider looking at the source of it. The politicisation of a vaccine overall makes many people naturally suspicious, this hasn't really happened before and people have never been THIS against a vaccine regardless of its effectiveness...perhaps there's a reason for that? Who are people going to turn to when the mainstream lies? That's right...conspiracy theories.

By all means get vaccinated, wear a mask in busy areas, eat well etc. but when the government decides every medical decision for us with the highest degree of sanctimony we start to hit into very dangerous territory. Where do we draw the line? I'm genuinely asking.

I'm living proof that we need to draw a line with how we control people's lives, using Melbourne as an example the desire for control grows as the powers continue being extended. Who knows perhaps one day alcohol will be illegal as this increases the detrimental effects of covid? Maybe that sounds silly to you, but to me in the T capital of the world it sounds very possible. I'm living it now...perhaps you will one day too. 

 

[Harlen Kelly]

8 hours ago, Ry4n said:

Doesn't really matter, in principle letting the unvaccinated face the consequences and minding one's medical business is a healthier societal culture than medical apartheids

Of course it doesn't matter to you, conspiratorial minds don't particularly care about factual evidence or systemic/scientific analysis. 

Most advanced nations such as japan, south korea, germany and canada imposed similar mandates during a certain period of time and they did not become totalitarian regimes or whatever else your conspiratorial mind is concocting. 

You might not be an anti-vaxxer, but you are not thinking rationally/analytically, you don't even care about observable facts regarding the pandemic. 

8 hours ago, Ry4n said:

The politicisation of a vaccine overall makes many people naturally suspicious, this hasn't really happened before

This is another conspiracy theory, this has not been the first vaccine mandate, nor will it be the last.

8 hours ago, Ry4n said:

Who knows perhaps one day alcohol will be illegal as this increases the detrimental effects of covid? Maybe that sounds silly to you

It's conspiratorial thinking and that exemplifies the lack of sophistication in your analysis. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Ry4n]

4 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

conspiratorial minds

I am a conspiracy theorist? How so? 

4 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

factual evidence or systemic/scientific analysis. 

What factual evidence? In response to what? I merely said mandates open the flood gates to totalitarianism, and used my own state of Melbourne as an example because I am living that reality right now.

Here is an example below:

Complaining about the government is now illegal. 

4 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

This is another conspiracy theory, this has not been the first vaccine mandate, nor will it be the last.

Yes, and the first mandated one to be politicised. It's actually the first vaccine to be mandated across all industries 100%, at least in my case. No unvaccinated person will be allowed to leave the house for the foreseeable future in my state. That is definitely new. People usually don't get paid either to get a vaccine, or win special prices like they are 12 years old. That is also new. Labelling everything as a conspiracy is merely a tactic to downplay that which you don't like to hear. Taking one side whilst downplaying and ignoring the other is a symptom of the cultural influence around us and increases the division we are currently facing, it's not the only thing but it is an important factor in why people are so divided right now.

4 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

but you are not thinking rationally/analytically

This is merely an ad hominem with no explanation behind it. What observable facts are even talking about in response to what I said? Like I said I am against mandating across all industries with every single individual in the planet. If you are so against the unvaccinated fuck em! Let em face the consequences, me as a vaccinated healthy person will be protected thus I have no concern.  

4 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

It's conspiratorial thinking and that exemplifies the lack of sophistication in your analysis.

Another ad hominem to downplay my points because it creates cognitive dissonance during tense times. 

Here's another example of why my concern around totalitarianism is legitimate:

 

[Harlen Kelly]

4 hours ago, Ry4n said:

 

 

Lol, this is what you call totalitarianism? this is why it's not worth having a serious discussion with people with your misinformed/silly ideological positions. At least understand at a basic level what totalitarianism means, it only takes like 5 minutes to read the basic definitions, furthermore, that information is readily available. 

Are Canada, Germany, South korea, Japan, Singapore, France, Norway etc.. totalitarian regimes for having implemented similar mandates and did they become totalitarian regimes after the implementation of said mandates? 

Can you not see the silliness of your ideological position?

Edited October 22, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Ry4n]

41 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Lol, this is what you call totalitarianism?

watch the other video. Melbourne is ahead of the game mate haha. We're leading the way. If I made this complaint on Facebook the Police would be at my door right now as evident by recent events. It was silly to me and now I'm living it. Likewise it is silly to other countries until....well.

I truly hope you're right, that this won't spread. That other countries don't adopt these totalitarian ways. France and Canada should look interesting.

We'll see, but I hope you're right.  

49 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

At least understand at a basic level what totalitarianism means, it only takes like 5 minutes to read the basic definitions, furthermore, that information is readily available. 

"Totalitarianism is a form of government and a political system that prohibits all opposition parties, outlaws individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life. It is regarded as the most extreme and complete form of authoritarianism."

Thanks for recommending that to me, sounds very accurate in describing my lived experience. Always remember this works like a frog in water, if you turn the heat up extremely slowly they won't notice the burn until it's too late. Currently burning right now, it's very fun. It looks like that water is getting hotter in other countries, hence my concern. But if you want to be a part of the problem in downplaying this be my guest.

^ Is this not outlawing individual opposition? Is this not prohibiting opposition? Is this not intimidating the public by using the Police as an extended arm of the government, as made evident by this and much more footage? Is this not controlling one's private life? Is this not extreme to you? Do you genuinely believe being arrested for Facebook posts is normal? 

[Johnny Galt]

@Harlen Kelly Did you know that Australians are getting shot with rubber bullets? Considering how few deaths they have had, to apply this type of enforcement, how does this not reflect a huge red flag? 

And then there's this: https://www.digitalidentity.gov.au 

 

 

 

[Ry4n]

48 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

@Harlen Kelly Did you know that Australians are getting shot with rubber bullets? Considering how few deaths they have had, to apply this type of enforcement, how does this not reflect a huge red flag? 

And then there's this: https://www.digitalidentity.gov.au 

 

 

 

my beloved Melbourne, tragic indeed. 

 

[Harlen Kelly]

@Ry4n Answer this. 

Are Canada, Germany, South korea, Japan, Singapore, France, Norway etc.. totalitarian regimes for having implemented similar mandates and did they become totalitarian regimes after the implementation of said mandates? 

1 hour ago, Ry4n said:

Thanks for recommending that to me, sounds very accurate in describing my lived experience.

Such a straightforward, simple definition and somehow you can't comprehend it, unbelievable. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Andyforreal]

Can't believe how terrible the government in Australia has become, they went full retard, total dictatorship