A Challenge To Everything You Think You Know

[Radical Honesty]

Just now, Lha Bho said:

@Radical Honesty You are still misrepresenting my position, though that's not your fault because I have been wording it wrong.

I'm not saying to hate mankind because of it's flaws, I'm saying to hate that mankind is flawing.

Once again, not hating the child for doing something but hating the something the child is doing.

I disagree.

You're right, I miss understood your meaning in that instance. 

On what grounds do you disagree? How could it have unfolded any other way?

[Primeval]

Well I'm off to run some errands.

Totally derailed this thread.

Maybe Leo will split it off

 

[Radical Honesty]

1 minute ago, Lha Bho said:

Well I'm off to run some errands.

Totally derailed this thread.

Maybe Leo will split it off

 

Hahaha we went a little off topic to say the least . 

Have a great day.

[Primeval]

@Radical Honesty Thanks, you also, good conversation. We can pick it back up after Leo splits it off! Haha

[Nexeternity]

Its a projection!  Thats your spiritual ego  

And this is mine!  

Hehe 

[jse]

"Gullibility:  a failure of social intelligence in which a person is easily tricked or manipulated into an ill-advised course of action. It is closely related to credulity, which is the tendency to believe unlikely propositions that are unsupported by evidence."

To get back to the main topic of this thread, open mindedness without critical thinking is just plain old gullibility.

If someone posts in here that they've had a direct and clear mystic message from an old-bearded man sitting up in the clouds, then how many of us would pass the "open mindedness test", and how many of us would dare to be critical?

Or, how about this story: The beautiful women who claim ETs got them pregnant

Don't be lured off your path.  Critical thinking is... well, critical.

Edited December 20, 2016 by jse
grammar

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

What if that old bearded guy in the clouds told you everything you needed to know to become enlightened. Would you dismiss it out of hand?

Being critical and dismissive are two very different things.

[jse]

2 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

What if that old bearded guy in the clouds told you everything you needed to know to become enlightened. Would you dismiss it out of hand?

And, what if that was just a delusion?

A critical thinker does not dismiss knowledge out of hand.

[hundreth]

34 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

 

 

Evasions.

Take another look at a recent post of Leo's in this thread where he talks about stage yellow thinking. This is very much at the heart of his openmindedness test.

 

EDIT: Here's the link:

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/7305-a-challenge-to-everything-you-think-you-know/?page=9#comment-69246

That post was in response to me, and I replied to him. Not in the mood to write the same post, it's already in this thread. Long story short, this thread attempts to conflate open mindedness with one's ability to integrate material. You can appreciate and take something of value from a story or allegorical tale without believing it's true or based in reality.

To be dismissive is to dismiss the material. In other words, not read it. I would say those of us who have read the material have passed the open mindedness test. 

A response other than "this is the bomb diggitty shizznitttt!!!" doesn't make one close minded.

Edited December 20, 2016 by hundreth

[hundreth]

6 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

But it goes even further than that: What does it matter whether the allegorical tale is true in any way whatsoever? The words in those Ra books remain exactly the same words whether you want to say that it's factual or not. Everything you add to it is excess and has no relevance to anything. Why is it so important to take a definitive stance? Is it just so you can think of yourself as a critical thinker?

There's an identity issue in there as well, if you haven't noticed...

Like I said, you can take something of value from the tale even if it's not true. There IS a big difference though. When something is true, it has the ability to bring you to realizations that you don't even want to arrive to. If you are a racist and believe that a certain group of people is the devil incarnate, spending time with them and having a direct experience of the truth will force you to change your perspective. Even when you didn't want to.

That's why most of us are here, to experience truth. Truth and consciousness go hand in hand. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Lha Bho said:

What would justify hate, and why?

Rape, Murder, Theft, Abuse and etc.

Why? I honestly think this doesn't need to be explained... it's self evident that those kinds of things are wrong. If you want to turn a blind eye and go meditate or whatever it is you do, then that's on you.

Justification is an ego game.

Nothing is ever wrong. Reality IS Love at the most existential level.

Hate is just a low consciousness manifestation of love.

This is where the distinction between small nonduality and BIG nonduality is really helpful. Nonduality includes all of duality within it. It's NOT a rejection of duality. It's an embrace of Absolute Infinity, without any cherry-picking.

Duality is what happens when you fail to embrace BIG nonduality.

You guys would REALLY benefit from reading the entire The Law of One series and paying very close attention what Ra is teaching you about how intelligent infinity works.

It's really hard to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced Divine Love. It's indiscriminate. Go have a direct experience of Divine Love. Then all this will make perfect sense.

This is where a psychedelic might be helpful. Do some MDMA or mushrooms or 5-meo until you experience more love than your head can handle.

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

Then you should already know that the veracity of the story is not relevant to anything. So what's the problem.

It is relevant to me. When an omniscient being like Ra shares insight about what I need to do to reach greater levels of consciousness, his credibility is going to factor into how strongly I follow his advice. If I believe Ra to be 100% truthful I'm going to do exactly as he says. Why wouldn't I?? If the story were absolutely true, it wouldn't matter to you?

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

That's your problem right there.

So I should blindly follow anything anyone tells me?

When the conversation turns into: Why is truth more valuable than non truth? - it becomes apparent how confused some of you have become with all of this.

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

@hundreth Whether or not a message is correct, has nothing to do with the credibility of the messenger. Those are two entirely separate things.

If I watched a video about Zen Devilry, but instead of Leo it would be George W. Bush who did the talking, and he said the exact same things as Leo, then why should I care that they came out of Bush's mouth? Why should I even care if it was really Bush or a CGI hoax by Uwe Bolle? What difference does it make?

Strawman. That's not what I'm saying. In this case, we are being critical of the material in and of itself. I've had no prior knowledge of Ra before reading this text. All my impressions of how valuable his words are come directly from the words themselves.

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, NTOgen said:

The problem is that you think this is a question of truth in the first place. You say truth and consciousness go hand in hand, do you not understand then that all words are spoken by consciousness?

Yes, and non truth represents lower states of consciousness. For example, it might feel good to believe we are the center of the universe and all heavenly bodies revolve around us. It's still a less conscious perspective. 

[hundreth]

4 minutes ago, NTOgen said:

But you're still forming an image of Ra based on his words, and if some parts of what he says does not meet your credibility standard, then you think that reflects on all other parts of it, because you taint all his words with the image you have of Ra.

Exactly 

The holes I've seen in his words cannot be unseen. He's been tainted as a source of truth. I can still find value, but it's not of the same magnitude. I did appreciate a lot of it. It made me think about the teacher - student relationship in more depth. I'm not going to hang on every word he says though, it's not that serious.

Anyways, I don't want to hijack this thread. Fun chat dude. Catch you again later!

Edited December 20, 2016 by hundreth

[Egoisego]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Justification is an ego game.

Nothing is ever wrong. Reality IS Love at the most existential level.

Hate is just a low consciousness manifestation of love.

This is where the distinction between small nonduality and BIG nonduality is really helpful. Nonduality includes all of duality within it. It's NOT a rejection of duality. It's an embrace of Absolute Infinity, without any cherry-picking.

Duality is what happens when you fail to embrace BIG nonduality.

You guys would REALLY benefit from reading the entire The Law of One series and paying very close attention what Ra is teaching you about how intelligent infinity works.

It's really hard to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced Divine Love. It's indiscriminate. Go have a direct experience of Divine Love. Then all this will make perfect sense.

This is where a psychedelic might be helpful. Do some MDMA or mushrooms or 5-meo until you experience more love than your head can handle.

you are wrong if you like to.

 

love is not a higher thing. they are both the same. this idea of enlightenment being love is a thing human makes it because we have feelings and want it to

Edited December 20, 2016 by Egoisego

[Leo Gura]

59 minutes ago, Egoisego said:

love is not a higher thing. they are both the same. this idea of enlightenment being love is a thing human makes it because we have feelings and want it to

The reason you say that is because you've never experienced Divine Love yet.

Oh, how I wish I could show it to you. It's beyond incredible.

[Egoisego]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason you say that is because you've never experienced Divine Love yet.

Oh, how I wish I could show it to you. It's beyond incredible.

it is still a feeling. it is ok to feel that feel. it is like pain and anxiety is.  but you can never say that one thing is more pure. it is like saying one stone is more than another stone is

 

you can ofc say that. it is just another thing which happens

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason you say that is because you've never experienced Divine Love yet.

Oh, how I wish I could show it to you. It's beyond incredible.

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Egoisego

[Hunter Arrington]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Extreme Z7

 

I keep on fading in and out of existence, having a pair of lips like that would really ground me.